Adding auto engine start/stop

RobZ · 2023-05-26

Probably gonna get flamed for asking because of all the hate for auto start/stop feature, but has anyone successfully added this to a vehicle that didn't come with it from the factory? 2019 Gas, FWD, XLE Premium

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Paul894

· #2 · 10 d ago

Vehicles with stop/start built in have a more robust starter that can withstand ~250,000+ starts so you'd have to do a lot of modifications to have that and it wouldn't be cost-effective in terms of fuel savings.

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redrav52

· #3 · 10 d ago

You can simulate the results that adding Stop/Start does to your engine by driving around town without any oil in your crankcase....

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RobZ

Discussion Starter · #4 · 9 d ago

Paul894 said:
Vehicles with stop/start built in have a more robust starter that can withstand ~250,000+ starts so you'd have to do a lot of modifications to have that and it wouldn't be cost-effective in terms of fuel savings.

Thank you.... Changing to a different starter isn't that huge of a deal, besides that the engines are still the same i think.. I'm gonna do some parts comparisons and figure out what else i would need.

redrav52 said:
You can simulate the results that adding Stop/Start does to your engine by driving around town without any oil in your crankcase....

The flaming that I mentioned earlier has arrived! Let's dive in...... Can you explain why it would cause the same damage as driving with no oil? Are you referring to the amount of time it takes to build oil pressure when initially starting an engine (typically 1-2 seconds... not factoring in the residual oil in the bearings)? Why would engineers at Toyota design a feature meant to cause damage to an engine? Is it a deep state conspiracy to get you to buy more vehicles?

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RavForTwo

· #5 · 9 d ago

RobZ said:
Thank you.... Changing to a different starter isn't that huge of a deal, besides that the engines are still the same i think.. I'm gonna do some parts comparisons and figure out what else i would need.

I think the starter may be the easiest part!

What might be more difficult is figuring out where the logic resides that controls the stop/start. Something has to be monitoring your speed and only stop the engine the engine when the vehicle speed is zero, the throttle is at idle, and hou are on the brakes. I would jmagine there are a whole host of conditions where you don't want stop/start to engage, such as when the engine is hotter than optimal, and some way to determine that stop/start probably shouldn't activate if you are stuck in traffic and creep forward ten feet every few seconds hundreds of times repetitively. It also shouldn't activate if your battery is low.

There may also be the consideration that vehicles with stop/start might have electrically driven air conditioning and coolant pumps that may be mechanically driven in vehicles without factory stop/start.

Seems like a huge endeavor that would be more costly and certainly more time consuming than trading for a similar vehicle with stop/start. I don't know that with certainty but would love to hear what you find out.

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Ruthrj

· #6 · 9 d ago

Don’t forget a beefier and more expensive battery to work with a starter that could take frequent stop/start cycles.

Not flaming, but what is the goal here? I don’t think you’ll ever recoup the costs of this sort of upgrade in fuel savings over the life of the vehicle. Why not trade for a hybrid? I’m getting an additional 10 mpg with my XSE Hybrid vs my gas XLE Premium vs the minuscule mpg you’d gain from auto stop/start. I didn’t do it purely for better mileage (I wanted the better suspension, better appearance with painted vs black cladding, etc), but you get the idea.

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RobZ

Discussion Starter · #7 · 9 d ago

RavForTwo said:
I think the starter may be the easiest part!

What might be more difficult is figuring out where the logic resides that controls the stop/start. Something has to be monitoring your speed and only stop the engine the engine when the vehicle speed is zero, the throttle is at idle, and hou are on the brakes. I would jmagine there are a whole host of conditions where you don't want stop/start to engage, such as when the engine is hotter than optimal, and some way to determine that stop/start probably shouldn't activate if you are stuck in traffic and creep forward ten feet every few seconds hundreds of times repetitively. It also shouldn't activate if your battery is low.

There may also be the consideration that vehicles with stop/start might have electrically driven air conditioning and coolant pumps that may be mechanically driven in vehicles without factory stop/start.

Seems like a huge endeavor that would be more costly and certainly more time consuming than trading for a similar vehicle with stop/start. I don't know that with certainty but would love to hear what you find out.

Ruthrj said:
Don’t forget a beefier and more expensive battery to work with a starter that could take frequent stop/start cycles.

Not flaming, but what is the goal here? I don’t think you’ll ever recoup the costs of this sort of upgrade in fuel savings over the life of the vehicle. Why not trade for a hybrid? I’m getting an additional 10 mpg with my XSE Hybrid vs my gas XLE Premium vs the minuscule mpg you’d gain from auto stop/start. I didn’t do it purely for better mileage (I wanted the better suspension, better appearance with painted vs black cladding, etc), but you get the idea.

Thank you both. All good considerations...and besides saving fuel I thought it is an interesting problem to solve. If everything ( starter, battery, ecu, sensors, pumps for AC/Heat, etc.) all need changing then it definitly wouln't be worth it. I'm not really looking to go that far... I was thinking there may be elements already in place and the feature could be activated with software and or some reasonable changes.

If i dive in further and find some options i will post here.

Thanks again for the input.

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redrav52

· #8 · 8 d ago

Rob,

Do a quick web search, Auto Stop start destroying your engine. I do not know if we can post links here. Here is a random article I found:

Is Auto Start Stop Bad For Engine: Does It Impact Its Longevity?

Is auto start stop bad for engine? Auto start stop is bad for the engine. Over time, it causes wear and tears on the bearings.

www.motorverso.com

from Motorverso . com
Is auto start stop bad for engine? Unfortunately, auto start use is not very good for car engines. It increases the level of wear a car engine will have and reduces its lifespan significantly. However, it also saves a percentage of fuel and reduces the emission level of a vehicle.

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RobZ

Discussion Starter · #9 · 7 d ago

redrav52 said:
Rob,

Do a quick web search, Auto Stop start destroying your engine. I do not know if we can post links here. Here is a random article I found:

Is Auto Start Stop Bad For Engine: Does It Impact Its Longevity?

Is auto start stop bad for engine? Auto start stop is bad for the engine. Over time, it causes wear and tears on the bearings.

www.motorverso.com

from Motorverso . com
Is auto start stop bad for engine? Unfortunately, auto start use is not very good for car engines. It increases the level of wear a car engine will have and reduces its lifespan significantly. However, it also saves a percentage of fuel and reduces the emission level of a vehicle.

LOL... you sent an article with no technical data that is literally an ad for an auto start / stop eliminator. Did you even read it? Do you personally have any mechanical or engineering education or background?

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espos4

· #10 · 7 d ago

Stop start is great if you drive the EPA fuel economy test route. That’s all it was made for. Trying to eke out an additional .5 mpg on the city cycle to round up to the next whole number on the window sticker.

Don’t forget the transmission hardware and programming needed to maintain line pressure when the engine shuts off. Otherwise you’ll likely experience an occasional neutral drop if you hit the gas too quickly.

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RobZ

Discussion Starter · #11 · 7 d ago

espos4 said:
Stop start is great if you drive the EPA fuel economy test route. That’s all it was made for. Trying to eke out an additional .5 mpg on the city cycle to round up to the next whole number on the window sticker.

Don’t forget the transmission hardware and programming needed to maintain line pressure when the engine shuts off. Otherwise you’ll likely experience an occasional neutral drop if you hit the gas too quickly.

Excellent! did not think about how the transmission would be involved as well. Thank you.

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LeviNx

· #12 · 7 d ago

When I had to get a new engine, the auto stop start did not work. It stopped the car but took roughly five minutes to reset. Later found out the entire wiring harness, plus fuel injectors, and the ecm board played a role in the auto start feature. It'll probably be one expensive means to get that working.

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RobZ

Discussion Starter · #13 · 6 d ago

LeviNx said:
When I had to get a new engine, the auto stop start did not work. It stopped the car but took roughly five minutes to reset. Later found out the entire wiring harness, plus fuel injectors, and the ecm board played a role in the auto start feature. It'll probably be one expensive means to get that working.

Thank you... seems like defintily more involved than it will be worth.

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YodaFJRav4

· #14 · 6 d ago

What would make it worth the trouble and cost? How could it benefit an owner in any practical way? If .5MPG is the goal, why not install 20" rims and see what that does?

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