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CarlStammerjohn
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently drove up the graded but relatively steep dirt road (average 14% grade) to Cerro Gordo in the White Mountains (CA). The air temp was in the mid-70's and the car was loaded with 2 adults and camping gear, 700 lbs max. I had the car in ECO mode (not intentionally) and 1st or 2nd gear. About 6 miles in the engine stuttered and quit running and the A/T Oil Temp light came on. Nasty smell. The engine would not start. I had not noticed if the A/T Oil Temp light had come on prior to the shutdown.

We waited about 20 minutes for things cool down and I was able to start the engine again. We drove back down the hill and back to LA without any other problems. This is troubling. Would Sport mode have made a difference? Any other thing I should have done differently? Should I have the trans oil changed now?

The car, 2015 XLE AWD, has about 18,500 miles on it. I just purchased it a month ago, Certified Used.
 

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Using a lower gear would always be better for going up a steep mountain especially carrying heavy weights. This would apply to towing also because the transmission is working harder and creating more heat. Check your transmission oil to determine is if it is burnt. A drain and fill is probably what you need to or a maybe a flush.
 

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If you had it manually in 1st or 2nd gear, it was probably just too much load over an extended period of time. Having it in ECO or SPORT mode wouldn't have made any difference.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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CarlStammerjohn
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you had it manually in 1st or 2nd gear, it was probably just too much load over an extended period of time. Having it in ECO or SPORT mode wouldn't have made any difference.

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Are you saying that leaving it in D would have helped?


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Are you saying that leaving it in D would have helped?


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No, I'm saying if it were forced into 1st or 2nd and you're not going over 4,000 RPMs, then the transmission was just being overloaded no matter what speed you're in. The only other solution would be to climb more slowly uphill in a low gear.



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Your WS is toasted. WS is a horrible ATF. It is nothing special other then CHEAP. It is a semi synthetic and can't take any heat before degrading. The Rav4 as we can see from your experience cant get rid of it's trans heat with a little hockey puck cooler. You have the right under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to change your ATF to anything you want as long as it is compatible to WS ( and that's not hard to do) and you can see if it is by looking at the bottle of the brand you are buying. It will have to be a low viscosity ATF. If and when you hear someone at Toyota or even a service manger say you need to run WS to keep the warranty, he is 100% wrong. I have heard that before and the minute you throw around the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the tune changes really quick to the one who know about it. Others keep spewing the company line because "they don't know, what they don't know"

I myself run Redline D6 and think it is one of the best ATFs out there. It is a Group 5 Ester ATF.

https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=115&pcid=9



I don't want to keep reposting my same opinion on how horrible WS is. Look up my name here and my posts. Most are about alternatives to WS, how to change your trans fluid, (some are in the 4.3 2006 to 2012 RAV4) There is a critical final running height of the ATF since you don't have a dipstick and while it is very easy to do and understand, ANYONE changing ATF in a dipstickless trans must heed the correct directions on final ATF trans fluid level. Get the substandard burnt WS out ASAP and make sure they get rid of the 10 quarts and put 10 qrts of new in.

I would also look at installing an external trans cooler, that too looks as if by my latest research is OK under the Magnuson-Moss Act as long as it is professionally installed (mechanically) No sharp hose radius turns and an oil cooler that has large enough fittings as not to restrict flow.

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You have the right under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to change your ATF to anything you want as long as it is compatible to WS ( and that's not hard to do) and you can see if it is by looking at the bottle of the brand you are buying.
So if some company decides to make some transmission fluid and decides to say on the label that it's WS "compatible", Toyota would still have to honor the warranty?

The fluid would need to be certified by an authorized body as compatible to stand up legally. Who certifies Redline products?
 

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CarlStammerjohn
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Please excuse me for still not understanding this.

"...if it were forced into 1st or 2nd and you're not going over 4,000 RPMs, then the transmission was just being overloaded no matter what speed you're in."

If you had said "3rd or 4th gear" your statement would make sense to me. Isn't the transmission overloaded if I'm in too high a gear? I have worked as a mechanic and have a degree in mechanical engineering, but I'm feeling a bit perplexed on this one.
 

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Please excuse me for still not understanding this.

"...if it were forced into 1st or 2nd and you're not going over 4,000 RPMs, then the transmission was just being overloaded no matter what speed you're in."

If you had said "3rd or 4th gear" your statement would make sense to me. Isn't the transmission overloaded if I'm in too high a gear? I have worked as a mechanic and have a degree in mechanical engineering, but I'm feeling a bit perplexed on this one.
What I'm saying is even in a low gear your transmission was overheating, meaning it too much load was being put on it for the grade, speed, and distance you were climbing. Simply put, the transmission just wasn't able to handle that trip uphill no matter what gear you were in. In hindsight, it might've been better to go a short distance, let the transmission cool, then continue. It'd be nice if Toyota put a transmission cooler on all RAV4s!
 

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So if some company decides to make some transmission fluid and decides to say on the label that it's WS "compatible", Toyota would still have to honor the warranty?

The fluid would need to be certified by an authorized body as compatible to stand up legally. Who certifies Redline products?

No authorized body exists. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states in a broad way what they can't do and does not say anything about certification, so none is needed. It does state that the manufacture just can't use the broad statement that you have to use their oil to maintain warranty, if so they need to provide it for free to you-(paraphrasing) And if they try to deny the warranty on say an oil cooler they have to "prove" that item did the damage and how it did the damage, and be able to back it up with sound engineering evidence. Not worth it in most cases, they will just honor the warranty. Yes, if you put in a WS compatible "name brand" oil they have to honor warranty.

Certifying an oil can cost a half a million plus dollars. Redline and Amsoil is not certified in many areas because they would have to spend millions to do so, and 3 years later they would have to re-certify because of a altered car manufacture newer and more advanced dictation of what they want in oil used for their cars.

This is how I see it. You may see it differently.

It is up to the buyer of the oil to pick an oil from an oil company that has "gravitas" in the industry that anyone from the car manufacture who has a petroleum fluid engineer degree knows it is a good oil. Any car manufacture knows when you have Amsoil, or Redline (Redline is now owned by Phillips 66) you have an oil of exceedingly high quality without question in that specific application stated by Redline or Amsoil. Now in some cases BMW, VW , and a few high end others may want "engine" oil certifications. Then you may just need to go with Mobil 1 or Castrol that spends the money to certify. I just looking up some certs for BMW, it looks as if now Mobil/Exxon has dropped all BMW certs oils on the oil bottle. Guess it is just too expensive to certify. It is hard to go wrong with a good group 4 (PAO) or group 5 (PAO/Ester) oil. As far as automatic transmission oil, most OEM's use a group 2/3, or a group 3 ATF, which can not match the heat resistance of a group 4 or group 5/Ester ATF. A PAO ATF can still varnish up easier then a group 5/Ester that is more varnish resistant.
 

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WS is a horrible ATF. It is nothing special other then CHEAP.
I'm not going to get into an online lubricant fluids debate with anyone giving off serious conspiracy theorist vibes. Neither am I going to argue the intricacies of consumer warranty laws with anyone who hasn't mastered the proper use of "then" and "than".

But to put a few facts out there: WS ATF fluid has been used by Toyota for more than a decade, and there are tens of millions of Toyotas on the road with that fluid. There is no evidence whatsoever that WS fluid is causing any problems for Toyota transmissions. None.

p.s. A different fluid would not have had any effect on the outcome of an 8 mile non-stop drive up a steep hill. The cooling capacity of the transmission was exceeded and the engine was shut down by a temperature sensor in the transmission. A "better" ATF would not have cooled the transmission any better. And that's all there is to that.
 

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Would you agree that a trans cooler is recommended?
If you want to drive up the same mountain again, then yes, you need a trans cooler.

I had a fairly large Hayden on another vehicle that I owned. It was easy to install.

I'm surprised your engine coolant stayed within operating range. Regular cars just aren't designed to run at almost peak power output for a long time.
 

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Redline or Amsoil or any group 4 or group 4/5 could of taken the hit of high temp without worrying about having to dump the crap substandard WS ASAP.
His transmission temperature sensor would be reading the same temperature with Toyota WS, Redline or Amsoil. And it would have shut down due to over temperature with any of those ATFs.

So you are telling me Toyota can't design a good transmission cooling system, just by reading your words. Shouldn't a vehicle be tested so it doesn't basically go into "limp mode" until it cools down on a simple drive up a mountain?
That's exactly what I'm saying. Driving for 8 miles up a mountain is beyond what this little urban/suburban crossover was designed for.

WS is just a money grab from Toyota
These are the cheapest prices found online. Toyota WS ATF is significantly cheaper (by 30%) than Redline D6 ATF.

Toyota WS ATF - $8.99/quart

7 Quart GENUINE TOYOTA ATF WS Automatic Transmission oil Fluid ATFWS Lexus Scion | eBay

Redline D6 ATF - $12.49/quart
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-307...F8&qid=1489709817&sr=8-1&keywords=Red+Line+D6

I can see you are a Liberal spelling Nazi. I bow down to your superiority oh Great One! I wish I lived in the Northeast so I could come shine your shoes....if you would let me, oh Great One!!

Being a Fanboy is a bitch, when substandard-ness ( <----Oh NO!!-- :-o ) hits you in the face.
You definitely sound like someone who's advice should be taken seriously. :rolleyes:
 
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