brand new 2021 R4P XSE PP with 1000 miles on odo- Not sure why or how but battery died. the key wouldn't unlock it, needed the physcal key to open. Seats won't move, battery totally gone. Toyota said they would come tow it (not the help we were looking for); AAA is coming to jump. The car had 12 mi EV range I recall when parking the car yesterday. Anything special to do /not do when jumping this kind of car? thanks!
Battery died! Any clues?
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Jumping the car is covered in the owner's manual. My battery died shortly after receiving my car but was probably due to an improperly configured HUD device that was plugged into the OBD port and stayed on all night.
Recommend you purchase a portable battery to keep in the compartment with the spare tire like this one from Amazon:
Imazing Portable Car Jump Starter - $80 It will easily start and EV as it does not require much current to start (no ICE or starting motor).
I have no idea what ran your battery down. It may be just a one-off problem. Recommend that you check your 12v battery voltage with a volt meter on the same terminal used to jump the car (or purchase an OBD that does that) to see if the voltage is decreasing. 12.5 VDC battery is fully charged, 11.5 (or lower) and the battery is near dead.
Recommend you purchase a portable battery to keep in the compartment with the spare tire like this one from Amazon:
Imazing Portable Car Jump Starter - $80 It will easily start and EV as it does not require much current to start (no ICE or starting motor).
I have no idea what ran your battery down. It may be just a one-off problem. Recommend that you check your 12v battery voltage with a volt meter on the same terminal used to jump the car (or purchase an OBD that does that) to see if the voltage is decreasing. 12.5 VDC battery is fully charged, 11.5 (or lower) and the battery is near dead.
I have a 2020 TRD, and I had my battery die on 2 occasions with nothing that would have contributed to excessive battery drain. I had the battery tested and it tested to be good. I took it into Toyota and they did a software update under warranty and all has been fine every since. That was about a year ago. It was really lame, but so far so good.
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A lot of possibilities.
OP not driving LONG enough for the 12V DC-DC bus recharges the 12V batt.
OP listeners to the radio repeatedly for short to long periods with car in ACC(escort) or IG-ON (Ignitoon On).
OP has a dash cam that is wired to record 24/7.
The batt was never fully recharged upon purchase, and was driven and remained in a state of discharge.
Keep the portable jump pack under the seat, in glove box, or door pocket. In spare wheel compartment will be a pain if 12V is unresponsive due to hatch requiring 12V to open.
OP not driving LONG enough for the 12V DC-DC bus recharges the 12V batt.
OP listeners to the radio repeatedly for short to long periods with car in ACC(escort) or IG-ON (Ignitoon On).
OP has a dash cam that is wired to record 24/7.
The batt was never fully recharged upon purchase, and was driven and remained in a state of discharge.
Keep the portable jump pack under the seat, in glove box, or door pocket. In spare wheel compartment will be a pain if 12V is unresponsive due to hatch requiring 12V to open.
I’ve heard dozens upon dozens 12V failures on EVs from Mach-Es, ID.4s, EV6s, to Teslas.
I think the DC to DC converter is killing these batteries. That’s why VW and Tesla are moving to li-ion 15V batteries that supposedly can handle high power charging and higher discharge.
^The Toyota DC to DC converter breathes life into the 12v battery. How/WHY do you think it is killing them? Because of other manufacturers future move w/ 12 batteries?
Toyota Hybrids and Plug-ins have always had small 12v batteries becuase they don’t power (MG1 to spin) starting the ICE like in gassers. The small 12v have always been prone to draining because of all the usual suspects. People who post about this problem quickly learn to fix it (dealer firmware, unplug OBD gadget, etc.), and sometimes they even post about the solution that worked for them.
I have drained my 12v four times (bad ScanGuage II firmware -> updated now). I got to practice jump starting my R4Prime using a charger-brick with alligator clamps and jump points under hood. It did not seem to be damaged from my experiments. That and all the 12v battery OBD metrics I see in the OBD data stream via OBDLink app, makes me suspect that the R4Prime shuts down the 12v. system if it detects low 12v, until you jump-start it. I know this is a significant Toyota suspect design change for extra 12v checks and actions, but I would not expect a small (motorcycle) 12v battery would be fine after draining 4 times. I’m finding so many things that are new and different on the R4Prime vs previous Hybrids and Plug-ins. I don’t get to assume that the R4Prime works like all that came before it (burned several times).
Toyota Hybrids and Plug-ins have always had small 12v batteries becuase they don’t power (MG1 to spin) starting the ICE like in gassers. The small 12v have always been prone to draining because of all the usual suspects. People who post about this problem quickly learn to fix it (dealer firmware, unplug OBD gadget, etc.), and sometimes they even post about the solution that worked for them.
I have drained my 12v four times (bad ScanGuage II firmware -> updated now). I got to practice jump starting my R4Prime using a charger-brick with alligator clamps and jump points under hood. It did not seem to be damaged from my experiments. That and all the 12v battery OBD metrics I see in the OBD data stream via OBDLink app, makes me suspect that the R4Prime shuts down the 12v. system if it detects low 12v, until you jump-start it. I know this is a significant Toyota suspect design change for extra 12v checks and actions, but I would not expect a small (motorcycle) 12v battery would be fine after draining 4 times. I’m finding so many things that are new and different on the R4Prime vs previous Hybrids and Plug-ins. I don’t get to assume that the R4Prime works like all that came before it (burned several times).
Thanks everyone.
the Cause -I’m trying to think of the cause and there are many possibilities yet one thing comes to mind. ConEd our utility in NY sent me a device from Smartcharge to plug in and keep always inserted into the OBD port. Maybe it drained the battery. It has flashing lights and sends data back to a network and also the data is basis for cash back to us every month based on charging. Could a little obd scanner drain the whole 12v? I will explore. Should not take much power but who knows.
The solution (this time): AAA came and gave it a jump
going forward: will buy the brick recommended above
the Cause -I’m trying to think of the cause and there are many possibilities yet one thing comes to mind. ConEd our utility in NY sent me a device from Smartcharge to plug in and keep always inserted into the OBD port. Maybe it drained the battery. It has flashing lights and sends data back to a network and also the data is basis for cash back to us every month based on charging. Could a little obd scanner drain the whole 12v? I will explore. Should not take much power but who knows.
The solution (this time): AAA came and gave it a jump
going forward: will buy the brick recommended above
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Just another option...
Look into the NOCO jump batteries.
I have the NoCo GB40 and its great....
Its not some POS from China...
NOCO - About Us
Designed and engineered in the USA. Over 100 years of American ingenuity and vision. NOCO firmly believes that success is driven by innovation and attention to detail. In-house Industrial Design, Mechanical and Electrical Engineering, and Advanced Testing Teams only scratch the surface of how deep our innovation goes.
Ding ding ding. This is it. If that transmitter is always active, even with the car off, it absolutely could have drained your battery. Other users on this forum had their battery drained by ODBII accessories.
Since the RAV4 Prime does not use the 12V battery to start the gasoline engine, it uses a smaller 12V battery compared to most gasoline-only vehicles. It does not take much to discharge this battery.
Contact your utility.
@AR58; Yes, unless an OBD device is designed to ‘go to sleep’ and draw minimal power when R4Prime is off it will very likely drain the 12v to the point it will not (power ECUs, brake boost, Big Batt Relay) start R4Prime (READY mode).
I drained my 12v 3 times with my ScanGauge II OBD reader because I was having too much fun with it and I didn’t send it off to get firmware upgrade specifically for R4Prime. It turns out that the R4Prime is truly a new Toyota design and the OBD signals for vehicle-off are different. So you have to keep a close eye on OBD devices to make sure they go to sleep when you turn R4P off.
Yeah, what Tim said.
I drained my 12v 3 times with my ScanGauge II OBD reader because I was having too much fun with it and I didn’t send it off to get firmware upgrade specifically for R4Prime. It turns out that the R4Prime is truly a new Toyota design and the OBD signals for vehicle-off are different. So you have to keep a close eye on OBD devices to make sure they go to sleep when you turn R4P off.
Yeah, what Tim said.
My understanding is that currently, there are NO third party batteries that are compatible with the Prime. Please let us know if anyone finds a larger replacement battery.
My service advisor says the auxiliary battery should last 5-6 years and may cost $5-600 to replace. I would like to avoid this situation out of warranty. TIA
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One lesson learned for me was to NOT listen to the radio on Accessory, but rather only when the dash says READY as it drained my 12v battery and threw a bunch of codes.
2021 Rav4 Prime XSE Pro Audio/Dynamic Nav/Weather Packages Build date: June 2021
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I did some testing on this limited because I unexpectedly had to end the test early as I needed the car, 6 hours more than overnight in this test, and here is what happened: 1h after the overnight charge completed the 12v battery check was 12.39v. I left the EVSE connected. 2h later battery check was 12.63v. 4h after that w/ the EVSE still connected the battery check was 12.47v. Ambient temp about 36F. I will do this again sometime and leave the EVSE connected for 24h and see how it fares.
Its not just hybrid/PHEV/EVs - new(er) Subarus have long threads discussing battery drain issues.
I recall a recent owners manual (either Toyota or VW) that stated leaving the car UNLOCKED could cause a higher battery drain. So if parking in your secured garage, you should still LOCK the vehicle to prevent any issues.
These things can be related to smart keys and the fact that vehicles are computers and sometimes in "stand-by" mode and not "sleep" for various reasons, meaning a 12v battery drain can occur.
I do miss being able to one-person push start my stick shift Mazda when needed - lol. Now we do carry one of those lithium "jump packs" to be ready.
I recall a recent owners manual (either Toyota or VW) that stated leaving the car UNLOCKED could cause a higher battery drain. So if parking in your secured garage, you should still LOCK the vehicle to prevent any issues.
These things can be related to smart keys and the fact that vehicles are computers and sometimes in "stand-by" mode and not "sleep" for various reasons, meaning a 12v battery drain can occur.
I do miss being able to one-person push start my stick shift Mazda when needed - lol. Now we do carry one of those lithium "jump packs" to be ready.
I would question the service advisor that said that. the Prime 12v battery is a standard LA battery, and a rather small one at that. There is nothing special about it that would make it proprietary or unique. A replacement at Costco is probably around $100 - $125. I understand he says it "should" last 5 to 6 years... I am very skeptical that I would get that long out of it due to the weak charging system.
Time will tell I suppose.
dp
Here is a good thread from someone who replaced 12v with Lithium based battery in his Rav4 Hybrid. Should work similarly in a Rav4Prime, but I didn’t like that the 12v charging parameters are set up for a lead-acid 12v.
www.rav4world.com
LiFePO4 12v battery in RAV4 hybrid?
I have updated the posts below, on the basis that the best information is more valuable than a historical record. The analysis will not be perfect, but it is the best I can do. Thanks to CyprusCorner for challenging some unwise methods (now removed) and whether the whole idea is feasible or...
www.rav4world.com
I think there needs to be some kind of feedback from the aux. battery to the DC/DC inverter to let the charging system know, yes, this is the correct battery to charge. The OEM part is listed at almost $1k which I find ridiculous. Hopefully there will be aftermarkets batteries in the next three years available for replacement at a reasonable cost.Here is a good thread from someone who replaced 12v with Lithium based battery in his Rav4 Hybrid. Should work similarly in a Rav4Prime, but I didn’t like that the 12v charging parameters are set up for a lead-acid 12v.
LiFePO4 12v battery in RAV4 hybrid?
I have updated the posts below, on the basis that the best information is more valuable than a historical record. The analysis will not be perfect, but it is the best I can do. Thanks to CyprusCorner for challenging some unwise methods (now removed) and whether the whole idea is feasible or...
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