[Rav4-lim]

Toyota filter has low filtration rate

What's the beta numbers for the two you listed?

 

[Rav4-lim]

probably because the numbers are bad in comparison to other brands

I am not sure I buy into that. Modern day materials used in oil filters have come a long way, even on the very low end of the "charts". Do we think Toyota sends sub-par specs to Denso to purposely make an inferior filter to save 3 cents per filter? It would actually be way more expensive for Denso to pull in sub-par materials just to make filters for Toyota. Denso gets their best materials pricing when their full production is using same materials, or minimal variances.

I use standard wix, have been using them for past 30yrs, never an issue of any kind from using wix oil filters. Have there been any oil filters specified for use in a vehicle where the engine goes toast because the filter was so bad?

 

[Rav4-lim]

Let’s see. You bought your RAV4 vehicle for $40-50K US and you’re trying save a couple of bucks for a quart of oil and filters? Toyota’s accessories are designed for its cars, third-party try to be all things to all people.

Does a Wix filter cost more than OEM? Does Mobil-1 from shelf cost more than OEM oil?
TGMO is good oil from what I can tell, loaded with moly, but Mobil-1 from a shelf works a-ok.
Wix filters (and many others) are perhaps less money and better filter than OEM.

I guess on a low end 2.5L motor (Rav4), doesn't really matter what you install, as long as you change them on a schedule.

 

[Rav4-lim]

Oil filters have beta and flow specs. I assume any filter that is listed for the application, will work just fine. Any filter that is close to listed filter specs, will work just fine. The only thing we don't really know is, reliefe pressure. 8-11 or 11-13, does that really matter on this 4cyl motor? There are no specs for that listed by Toyota.

Does the oil filter's bypass valve pop off point PSI determine the flow rate through the engine? Anyone know?

I suspect flow rates are with bypass closed. Flow rate is a measurement of the filter media.

 

[Rav4-lim]

I think any filter you can buy at Autozone, Walmart, Oreillys, RA, Advance, etc etc, will do what's needed per OEM spec.
Better than OEM spec we can argue 24x7. I chose Wix and sticking with it (for past 30yrs).

 

[Rav4-lim]

Wix 51394 oil filter has pretty small filtration media:

But what does that equate to? Will the wix bypass sooner? Does the Bosch catch more dirt over the life of the oil?

Beta #'s being equal, we know bigger filter (media) simply means the psi drop across the filter will be less with the bigger filter. But this is really only relevant with static pumps. Dymanic pumps can adjust to maintain constant delivery psi.

For rav 2.5L ice, I honestly don't think it matters. We know the OEM denso works, so anything "better" than that should work. Without long term studies and lab analysis we won't really know what the engine wear looks like using Wix vs Bosch vs OEM Denso vs other filters. I suspect just using quality oil and changing it at the right time will dwarf any small differences we find in the filters.

There are methods to lab test filters in test jigs, but who's doing that work? I don't think maker of Fram really cares if you choose OEM or Wix or Bosch, because Fram still sells a bunch and they take up lots of room on the shelves. We get all the hype from ad/marketing and DIY u-toobers.

 

[Rav4-lim]

Smaller to collect?

The filter media has a Beta number. Filtering is based on that number, not the size of the filter. Dirt collecting impacts flow (psi drop) across the media.

 

[Rav4-lim]

Theyre rated 5000mile

Does the media fall apart after 5000 miles?
Rating a filter by miles seems a bit odd. What if oil pump-A pumps 1gal/min but pump-B pumps 2gal/min.

Hybrid, 2.5L ice, pick any filter, not gonna make a diff.

We can argue about best filter or best value until cows are eliminated from the fields. There is a best fllter, and there is a best-value filter. Let the debate continue.

 

[Rav4-lim]

this wix works for rav4s? oreilly says no fit

I rarely rely on retail vendors to tell me what part fits or not. Use the parts vendor site to do parts lookup, then go buy it from retail or online.

In the pics Tazio posted, notice the WL filter has higher bypass PSI, and no beta number.

 

[Rav4-lim]

As I recall at one time YOU were using either the Wix 51394 or the even longer WIX 57145. What are you using now?

I prefer the cellulose Wix 51394 over the slightly more expensive 51394 XP synthetic.

Rav gets 51394, I buy it as 51394MP from Fleet or the like. My lexus uses a longer wix filter because it fits.
I never used the XP version as I never did find any data showing that the extra cost for XP does any better than non-XP for this application.

So the 51394XP would work in my RAV4?

Although you're saying the non-XP with cellulose is actually better given the way the RAV4 works?

51394 and XP works. I never mentioned XP vs non-XP. Synthetic materials usually have a more uniform fabric. Use any name brand filter, doesn't really matter for the 2.5L. I use Wix for some reasons. 1) cost value via MasterPack, 2) good quality.

As for name brands, there's many.
Mobil1
Purolator
Fram
Bosch
Denso
Napa
Wix
K&N
ACdelco
Premium
on and on the list goes.

They all work, some are better than the others, yet none are detrimental to the engine. Some names are just re-brands of others.

 

[Rav4-lim]

If the filter does not bypass, then it's still filtering.
The engine is still lubricated no matter if the filter is bypassing or not.
We prefer a filter to filter for the life of the oil with minimal PSI drop across the media.

The Tazio vid #68 is only good for static pumps, dynamic pumps will adjust to keep delivery PSI at a set number which can adjust according to engine demands. With dynamic pumps the flow rate (psi) is not a 1:1 relationship to engine RPM.

 

[Rav4-lim]

Change your oil every 5K miles or 6 months and stop worrying about Toyota filters, they are fine

That is true, but the argumnet is more like, "you can easily get a better filter for less money". All do the job, some better than others, some cost more. I think it comes down to convenience and cost. Since I buy the "MP" of Wix I only buy every 6 years, thus the cost is lower and the convenience of having the filters right there in my garage. If only I could find good deals on 5qt jugs of oil to stock my shelf.

 

[Rav4-lim]

The synthetics are probably better, but also cost way more. Post #73.

"synthetics" --> filter media, oil, fabrics, coolants, brake fluids, etc etc.

 

[Rav4-lim]

This is an ok BITOG read, very technical. For the Rav 2.5L ice, makes no diff what filter you use. Change it with every oil change, drive vehicle 300kmi. Synthetics are bad for environment and should be in a recycle program.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/whats-in-your-filter-media-types-explained.345164/

 

[Rav4-lim]

Many smaller items made from cellulose use scraps from other bigger wood processing, so it's not like forest clearing just for oil filters. And if you manage forests the right way then you'll always have wood for products (+oxygen and removal of CO2), which is the best natural way of "recycling".

Syntheitcs are not just about the landfill, they often require use of other bad stuff to make the media. CFL and LED light bulbs are magnitudes worse to the environment than a basic glass/metal/tungsten lightbulb. CFL and LED bulbs use mass amounts of plastic and chemicals.

What's wrong with a tungsten bulb if 75% of the electrical energy is turned into heat? Nothing if you live in Fargo.