Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just cruised through all the threads on tires but am looking for some specific info here. Does anyone have any real world knowledge about the Blizzak DM-Z3 versus the newer Michelin X-Ice? I need a snow and ice tire for going up into the mountains for snow sports but also need a good rain tire for Seattle winters. Blizzaks have a good rep but I can't find much info on the X-Ice and tirerack has no data on it yet. Any opinions would be appreciated. I'm assuming I'd put on the 215/70/16 (my stock tires are the 235/60/16's). I'm looking for some more height without sacrificing snow/rain traction...

Thanks!

Kathy
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
do you mean the Michelin Latitude X-ICE ( http://www.michelinman.com/catalog/tires/MichelinLatitudeXIce.html?tiretype=5&tire=13)? -It's for SUV's...the regular "X-ICE" is for cars.

The Michelin® Latitude™ X-Ice™ features a new generation of winter rubber compounds that help deliver predictable grip and performance in challenging winter driving conditions without compromising tread life. Designed specifically for light trucks and SUVs, the Michelin Latitude X-Ice also features Cross Z-Sipes Technology (CZST) to help bite through snow and ice.

Winter tire
Excellent grip on snow and ice
Outstanding braking and handling
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I'm starting my second winter with Blizzak DM-Z3's, and I've been very happy with them, both in winter snow & ice, as well as rain & mud. I have the 215/70/16's and they handle fine, although I don't think there's a significant height difference. I bought them after reading a bunch of positive reviews on the TireRack site which were written by people who used them on their RAV-4's in snowy climates.

I don't have any personal experience with the Michelins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
Both B-stone and Michelin have great compounds. However I think the V directional tread pattern of the Michelins with a more open center directly exiting the sides will do you better in the wet and slushy conditions.
Other than compound that’s reason I chose the Toyo Observe G-03.

http://www.1010tires.com has 16 consumer reviews on the B-stones for you.

Cheers, :D Walt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
For whatever it is worth, Consumer Reports tested and rated the Michelin Ice-X above the Blizzak tire in last months issue covering winter tires.
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the replies so far! I go back and forth constantly between these tires. I see that according to the information on the Latitude X-Ice it should be a great tire... I just wish I could find someone who actually has them on the RAV and has some experience with them. I think I keep going back to the Blizzaks because they're more of a known commodity. Interesting about the Consumer Reports, though. I didn't know that. I'll go back to the TireRack and 1010's websites and read more consumer reviews. I'm hoping that someone on our forum actually has some experience with the X-Ice....

The one thing that I did see on a Tire Rack comment, was one person had a side wall blow-out with the DM-Z3 and supposedly his tire supplier said that the tire has been having trouble when faced with warmer temperatures. That's only one comment and who knows if that's really true, but curious if anyone has heard anything like that.

Kathy
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Well, I just went and ordered the DM-Z3's from Tire Rack. Beyond the snow, I really hope they'll be okay in Seattle rain and the guy seemed to think they'd be fine. My problem with the Michelins is that there just isn't enough real data out there yet with them. Tire Rack hasn't tested them on anything but ice and although the specs are good, I trust real world people experience over marketing specs. So I hope I did the right thing. Guess I'll find out, eh? :?

Kathy

P.S. Tire Rack said they hadn't heard of a lot of side wall blow-out incidents. I obviously know that a lot of things could have caused that, but wanted to find out if they had many reports of similiar happenings and he said no.
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Kathy,

I think you made a good choice, and you'll be very pleased with the Blizzaks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
I slept all day so I hope you can cancel your order. Sorry. :D

I get paid for this so take it for what its worth. I have real world experience with both as a matter of fact. As I do with others as well.

I drove both at a Michelin testing seminar set up for dealers last year here in Canada. I work with a top 500 company and we get to test the products we sell every year.

First off, I'd recommend the Michelin anyday when it comes to winter tires. Bridgestone has been playing catch-up ever since the first generation Blizzak was introduced. The lack of durability was and still is the biggest drawback to the Bridgestone. Purely based on the money you spend, Michelin wins for the amount of service you will get out of the tire.

Grip also goes to Michelin. Dry, wet and snowy. The Blizzaks pretty much turn to mush on dry pavement under the same intense handling as the Michelins. X-Ice (Latitude X-Ice) has very responsive handling and dry grip is very stable. The wear factor is an issue with the Blizzak because the tire looses its ability to do its job as it wears much more than the X-Ice. Wet handling is awesome with the X-Ice with its directional tread design.!!!

Snow/Ice, well any new winter tire will pretty much give you good traction the first year with respect to snow but the ice factor is another technology that Michelin has been able to factor in quite well. Through its entire life span, the Michelin will give you the same traction on ice untill the day they are completley worn out. This is a statement that Michelin makes and I personally have had feed back from 100's of people who confirm this info. Blizzak not so much.

I know its long but you asked. I could keep going. If you have any specific questions still on your mind ask away. I like Brigestone but for winter tires I choose Michelin between the two.

RAV 4 clients love them. Alot of it is because the RAV is capable on its own but the Ice grip is #1 with these tires and there is no other that can touch Michelin right now. They are quiet too.

The progression of this tire went from Michelin Alpin- Michelin Arctic Alpin to Michelin X-Ice over the years. (The Latitude designation is to separate between Truck sizes and Auto sizes). There is also a "Pilot X-Ice" for the higher speed ratings and lower profile designated vehicles. All the same Tech. but the prices are all very different. Go with the 215/70R16 as an option for winter. Better in deep snow with less width and the size is a little less costly.

Now for the contradiction if you will.....If deep snow is your #1 concern however maybe you need to do your homework a little more. The Michelin is not the be all and end all when it comes to winter like Michelin wants you to think. Extreme deep snow conditions requires a more aggressive tire. The 4x4 ability of the RAV can off-set some of this but for unmatched traction in just snow you want some major bite. I don't have X-Ice (its not a requirement to keep my job and Michelin doesn't pay me) Check my Album for my choice for winter. Also Cost was a factor for me as well based on "principal" among other things.

The cost for "4" X-Ice here is the same as buying a small village in a country without winter. :lol: I thought of this too just to avoid winter all together and follow the sun but I have to work the rest of the year anyway.

Good luck with your decision (X-Ice) and let me know if (X-Ice) you have any more questions (X-Ice) and I promise not to talk so long next time. (X-Ice). Thanks. Later. M.

(X-Ice) :lol:
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
My parents and I have always had Michelin tires...

Pilot Exalto A/S - 2003 Corolla LE
Pilot Sport A/S - 2001 Lexus GS430
Cross Terrain SUV - 2001 Sequoia

The Rav4 is brand new, so no new tires, but I can't find any SUV tires they make that fit...kinda makes me sad. :(

All in all, no other company has the engineering that Michelin tires have - from handling to treadlife (notice both are VERY important to one another). :D

What tires are people putting on their RAV4's when the stockers wear out?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
All in all, no other company has the engineering that Michelin tires have - from handling to treadlife
I'd agree Michelins are one of the leaders in tire construction but they also have or had some poor tires. I had OEM's on one of my vehicles and i oversteered them on dry pavement and they also had tread separation. :eek:
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Wow, Marcutio, thanks for the great information. I obviously wasn't patient enough to wait until more people had replied to my question. :roll: I have to admit that your post made me think twice about buying the Blizzaks. But unfortunately, by the time you had replied and I saw it, Tire Rack had shipped the tires! So guess I'm gonna find out how the Blizzaks work out. I think my husband wishes I had bought the Michelins, but I've never heard anything but good about Blizzaks, so went with a known product.
KCZ, I really appreciate your feedback on your experience with them. The biggest issue for the tires will be the fact that I'll be driving on a lot of dry and wet pavement, which will certainly wear them faster. But I wanted something that will work well up in the mountains and in the snow parks. So I'm well aware that the things will wear out faster here than in a climate with constant snow. I'll let you all know if I love 'em or hate 'em after driving on them for awhile!

Kathy
 
E

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
last winter I was using Nokian. probably will switch to michelin.. thnkz for the info guys
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
mionee67 said:
All in all, no other company has the engineering that Michelin tires have - from handling to treadlife
I'd agree Michelins are one of the leaders in tire construction but they also have or had some poor tires. I had OEM's on one of my vehicles and i oversteered them on dry pavement and they also had tread separation. :eek:

what tires? notice how the category depends on performance? pilot series are sports car tires...i have them on my corolla :D it's a sports sedan now 8)

a few of the regular passenger tires aren't that great...they're for long treadlife...no performance at all.
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Michelin winter tires—more than just snow traction.

Sure Michelin winter tires provide intense grip in ice and snow. But that's just the beginning. Unlike all season tires, Michelin winter tire tread compounds are specifically engineered to remain flexible in colder temperatures. Their Adaptive Progressive Stiffness (APS) rubber technology allows the unique compound to soften at the road's surface, while remaining rigid near the tire belt, thus providing intense grip and superior handling in all winter road conditions—even on dry roads.



Improved braking—wet or dry: Compared to an all-season tire, the braking distance of a Michelin winter tire can be up to 10% shorter, or two vehicle lengths, depending on speed and road conditions.


Added safety for SUVs: 4-wheel drive is great for getting you going in wintery conditions. But when it comes to stopping, SUV's and other 4-wheel drive vehicles are just as vulnerable as any other passenger vehicles if not equipped with winter tires. Due to their weight and high ground clearance, these vehicles will actually perform better when equipped with a set of Michelin winter tires.


Maximize your car's safety systems: Even if your vehicle has high-tech features such as anti-lock brakes, traction control and all-wheel drive, a set of quality Michelin winter tires will significantly help stability, control and overall safety in winter driving conditions.


Make your all-season tire last: Every mile driven on your winter tires is one less mile of wear on your all-season tires. So purchasing Michelin winter tires doesn't just maximize your safety on the road, it also extends the life of your all-season tires.


No compromise winter performance: Michelin winter tires are obsessively engineered and tested to help deliver maximum performance on all winter road conditions, whether icy roads, freezing rain, sleet, snow or just falling temperatures.

Learn more about Michelin's winter tires:

X-Iceâ„¢ - Winter performance for passenger cars and minivans.

Latitudeâ„¢ X-Iceâ„¢ - X-treme performance for SUVs.

Pilot® Alpin® PA2™ - Ultimate winter performance for sports cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,066 Posts
Ad, I did not want to offend, just wanted to mention that most of these great companies put out something that is not respectable (like the OEM Toyos with the RAV’s)
The Michelins where passenger tires on a lemon of a Chrysler :D
In about 50,000 K / 7 years they cracked all along the edge of the sidewall and one flew off while execrating on the highway.

Kathy how come you did not listen to me… :eek: . Did I need to tell you that I develop products and mix Latex and Silicones. Man even my father doesn’t listen to me. :( :)
Like Marcutio said the B-stones Blizaks have excellent ice traction compound that is only about half way through on their tires (not sure about DM-Z3's). This together with the tread design with many sipes/edges will give you excellent grip on ice, however like M said the ride may not be as good (you may not notice to much). The other thing to consider though is that when you reach that half way mark on any snow tire your snow traction is becoming worst anyhow.
But like I said before the particular X-ice model you looked at had an aggressive design for slush and water and that’s what I looked for.
Anyhow, I think you will still be happy about your particular B-stones. They are great tires!!

Cheers, :D
Walt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
"Adreniline" sounds like the material that comes with our products. Good info though. You can never have too much info to make a well informed decision. After all its a lot of $$$$.

Kathy its not too late to return your purchase, is it? Tell me its not. Kidding!!!! Mostly dry pavment will wear any winter tire faster than normal but the Blizzak has been compared to "butter" over the years in this respect. Maybe with this tire they have overcome this factor but the technology doesn't really allow for this.

In the beginning the Blizzak marketing actually showed cross sections of the rubber and compared it to an "Aero" bar with all those air bubbles inside. They said that they actually work like thousands of tiny suction cups. One major down fall to this is that the rubber is less solid and unable to stand up to wear and handling like an X-Ice.

Wet, Dry, Snow and ICE is what the X-Ice was designed for. I'm sure you will find that the Blizzak is a great tire but with such a short life you can try the X-Ice next year. :lol:

Too bad I couldn't get to you sooner but you wasted no time in ordering those Blizzaks. Man your a fast shopper. I thought I was bad. Good luck and safe driving. Having a RAV as a best friend in the winter will certainly help.

Later. M. :p
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Wasn't trying to ignore you, Walt. :) I didn't know that you were a Latex and Silicone guy. Guess I don't read the forum enough these days. We could have had a chemistry geek conversation (I have a chemistry degree.) I think I just had it in my head that I wanted the Blizzaks. And yeah, Marcutio, you should talk to my husband if you want to really find out how fast a shopper I am... He will tell you I'm really impatient! (Something I'm working on... ha ha) I really do appreciate all the time you guys took in discussing this, even if I did ignore many of you. :p

Kathy
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top