[Barker]

Hi guys,

I drained the battery in my 2013 Rav on the weekend and had to jump start it on Sunday night.

I put the cables on correctly with neg. to neg. and pos. to pos. (always do...since that time when I was a teenager and had the hooked up backwards. SPARKS!) and proceeded to start the rav.

It did a funny thing though. It started, ran for 1 maybe 2 seconds, and then it stalled. So I hit the key again and it took right off. I immediately noticed that the slip detection indicator light was on steady. It ran fine and I drove it home without incident.

Once I got it home I checked out a few fuses and even tried resetting the ECU by disconnecting the power for a while. When I reconnected the battery it did the same stall/start weirdness and the indicator light was still on. Fail.

So I dropped it off at the dealer today. They give me a call and tell me that I hooked the jumper cables up backwards and that it may take some time to diagnose. Of course... I'm on the hook for it$$$. To say the least... I'm feeling pretty offended.

The only thing that I did differently from the manual was connect the negative jumper cable to the negative battery terminal on my Rav (instead of another non-battery piece of metal for "safety"). Honestly, I didn't think that new cars that sensitive to how you jump their batteries, so I didn't bother looking in the owners manual first.

Has anyone else had any issues with the slip detection/stability control on the 4th gen Ravs?

 

[katekebo]

So, I can't point specifically to your problems without full technical documentation, but the RAV charging circuit is somewhat different to most other cars, and more specifically most Toyota models built/designed before 2013.

The new addition to the RAV is a temperature / overcharge protection circuit to protect the battery from overcharging and/or overheating in hot weather.

Older cars (Toyotas) did not have this circuit. Basically, the voltage regulator took care of keeping the battery fully charged and not exceeding certain charging voltage. But this older system does not take into account the temperature, and how it affects the maximum charge voltage. This results in overcharging, especially in hot climate, and consequently reduces battery life. That's why average battery life in the South (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, etc.) is on average 1-2 years shorter than battery life in the Mid-West, for example.

The RAV has an additional protection circuit that sense battery temperature and prevent overcharging / overheating of the battery in hot weather. The intent is to extend the battery life and/or be able to use a smaller/lighter battery than what would otherwise be necessary to achieve good starting performance.

Now, could this circuit (or any other electronics) be damaged by connecting the negative jumper cable to the battery instead of the engine / car's body, I don't know. But the battery charging circuit in the RAV is certainly different from older Toyota models. For example, I know that my wife's 2010 Highlander and my 2014 Venza do not have the protection circuit that the RAV comes with.

Another possibility is that some electronics got affected by low voltage while the battery was slowly being drained. Most of the electronics in the car are never really fully disconnected, they are always connected to the power supply and only enter a "sleep" mode (very much like any computer equipment these days that does not have a hard-wired power switch, only a ON-OFF button). Car electronics are pretty "hardener" and can take quite a lot of abuse. But no digital electronic device likes to be powered with voltage that is very much outside a reasonable range. Most car electronics work fine anywhere from ~8 to ~14 V. But once the voltage drops below ~8 V, but is higher than ~5-6 V all kinds of crazy things can happen, including losing or spontaneously overwriting settings or calibration parameters.

 

[Blogson]

How badly discharged was the battery in your RAV? Assuming that you connected the jumper cables correctly, as a former battery QA and RMA tech there is a phenomenon which can occur with a deeply discharged battery, but in that situation ordinarily with the battery already in marginal condition. It can actually be driven into reversed polarity before you jump started your RAV. If that were the case it could account for the dealer's stating that you connected the cables incorrectly. Unfortunately if that were the case you still would be on the hook for any repair costs.

 

[Bluenoser]

I'm just wondering......if this could have been avoided if after connecting the cables correctly, the charging vehicle had been started instead of the RAV, allowing the RAV's battery to charge a bit before attempting to start the RAV......
Of course, one would shut off the charging vehicle before starting the RAV....

I always carry jumper cables and have occasionally boosted other vehicles with my previous RAVs, but always with my RAV off........and my fingers crossed....as I know there is always a risk to electronics with today's computerised vehicles...

 

[Barker]

I'm just wondering......if this could have been avoided if after connecting the cables correctly, the charging vehicle had been started instead of the RAV, allowing the RAV's battery to charge a bit before attempting to start the RAV......

That is the way I did it. :smile

Some key information that I forgot to mention in the first post was that the key was left in the ignition in the accessory position. (forgot to take the key out after blowing up a friggin' air mattress)

The dealer got back to me late yesterday and mentioned that it's putting out a single code related to the steering position sensor. They shut the code off, but "didn't have time" to check to see if the light came back on or not.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I pick it up.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I doubt that hooking directly to the battery terminals had anything to do with the issues.
Also that a different charging system did either since the engine wasn't running.

As mentioned low voltage as the battery was dying or during the boosting can be expected to affect any or many of the electronic modules on a modern car. This is especially true if some of them were powered with the key in the accessory position. Virtually any combination of error lights could be expected. But disconnecting the battery is NOT the way to clear them! That's just inviting more errors IMO. A code reader is the correct and safe way. That's what the dealer did and I'd suspect you'll not have any more issues.

 

[1000MPH]

Man, I thought this was going to be a thread on a turbo Rav.
Reading error codes is another good reason to get TechStream.

 

[Barker]

Well I just picked up the rav and ... still have the anti skid control light on all the time.

The techs report says they found several codes for power supply voltage and steering angle sensor.

I'm pretty disgusted with myself for leaving that damn key in at this point. I can't believe that this could even happen from leaving the key in... I also can't believe how this couldn't be covered by my warranty.

A return visit looks to be in my future. At $110+tax per hour (CAD) just to diagnose, you could say I'm not looking forward to it... At all.

 

[JuneBug]

I'm pretty disgusted with myself for leaving that damn key in at this point. I can't believe that this could even happen from leaving the key in... I also can't believe how this couldn't be covered by my warranty.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but what you should have done was remove the key and immediately called Toyota roadside assistance. Then it would have all been on THEM. Don't admit to anything, just tell them it wouldn't start. If they ask questions, just play dumb.

 

[kinjero]

Man, I thought this was going to be a thread on a turbo Rav.
Reading error codes is another good reason to get TechStream.

:lol: I thought the same thing

 

[whipaway]

The new addition to the RAV is a temperature / overcharge protection circuit to protect the battery from overcharging and/or overheating in hot weather.

The RAV has an additional protection circuit that sense battery temperature and prevent overcharging / overheating of the battery in hot weather. The intent is to extend the battery life and/or be able to use a smaller/lighter battery than what would otherwise be necessary to achieve good starting performance.

.

Where is the sensor for this system? Is it incorporated into the battery tray? Are there additional sensors somewhere that allow the system differentiate between battey temp and ambient / engine bay temperatures? I looked on the schematic but found no evidence of any sensors.

 

[WJBertrand]

Forgive me if this is stupid, any chance the skid control button was pressed? That would turn the light on, though I think it should reset if the vehicle was turned off.

 

[katekebo]

Where is the sensor for this system? Is it incorporated into the battery tray? Are there additional sensors somewhere that allow the system differentiate between battey temp and ambient / engine bay temperatures? I looked on the schematic but found no evidence of any sensors.

Attached is a brief description with location of the sensors.

 

[whipaway]

My 2013 and all of the images of the engine compartment on 4.4 RAVs that I have seen have no such device hung off of the negative battery teminal, no shunt resistor, etc. The battery cable goes directly to ground.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp...13-Toyota-RAV-4-XLE-AWD-Engine-Done-Small.jpg

 

[JuneBug]

My 2013 and all of the images of the engine compartment on 4.4 RAVs that I have seen have no such device hung off of the negative battery teminal, no shunt resistor, etc. The battery cable goes directly to ground.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp...13-Toyota-RAV-4-XLE-AWD-Engine-Done-Small.jpg

Apparently, my 2008 has this device on the negative battery terminal. In this picture you can see the little gray box coming off the terminal right in front of the ECU:

 

[whipaway]

The schematic for the 4.4 does show a battery current sensor assembly, but it is in series with the positive of the battery.
I guess the rest of the circuit that connects in series with the negaive of the battery was dropped at the last minute from the 4.4 RAVs.

 

[Barker]

Well after the dealership having my rav for 4 weeks (yup....) I finally have it back. They replaced a Junction block, and a connector (after which it still had a problem) and finally they replaced the clock spring assembly, which finally fixed it.

Unfortunately the steering wheel now is off by ~15 degrees and it is driving me nuts, so a return visit is in my future.

All the work was covered by what the service person called "good will." They couldn't say exactly what caused the problem.

 

[volosong]

Congrats, (except for the steering wheel). "Good Will" is a fancy term meaning that they spent way too much time trying to figure out what was wrong, time that they couldn't rightfully charge you for. They were 'guessing' and trying different things until they finally located the problem. That's not in the cost code book. It also means that they kept your car way too long for something that should have been discovered pretty quickly. They wanted to charge you, but thought better of it. Still, accept it and thank them.

 

[Bluenoser]

4 weeks or $$$$$......
I agree...."accept it and thank them...."

Hfx dealership...???