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Discussion Starter #102
Yesterday I was at a Toyota dealer in Culver City, CA. They had a gray XSE Premium on the showroom floor. MSRP was $50,XXX. They added an additional sticker showing a markup. Asking price was $75,000! Anybody who can buy these at MSRP is getting a great deal. I didn't think it would be possible to buy at MSRP. Congrats to Russ C, hopes 2, and others who bought these at MSRP.
LA Rav 4

I did not even look in California because I knew everything cost more in that state.

I was very blessed to purchase a SE Prime for $667 below MSRP or $41,000 plus $75 doc fees, title, $10, and $35 temp license.

Unfortunately, I will need to pay almost $3,000 in sales tax when I bring it back to my home state of Utah.

Now I must wait for delivery. It arrived in USA but it is anyone’s guess when it will arrive at the dealer you n Oregon.

I called my insurance gave them the VIN and it came in at $557 every 6 months or about $30 more than our 2019 Rav 4 hybrid XLE.

Russ
 

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LA Rav 4

I did not even look in California because I knew everything cost more in that state.

I was very blessed to purchase a SE Prime for $667 below MSRP or $41,000 plus $75 doc fees, title, $10, and $35 temp license.

Unfortunately, I will need to pay almost $3,000 in sales tax when I bring it back to my home state of Utah.

Now I must wait for delivery. It arrived in USA but it is anyone’s guess when it will arrive at the dealer you n Oregon.

I called my insurance gave them the VIN and it came in at $557 every 6 months or about $30 more than our 2019 Rav 4 hybrid XLE.

Russ
If your car is in the USA right now, The dealer should have a very firm date as to when they will take delivery!!!
 

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Political posts do not belong on this forum!
You are correct. And that has been stated by the Forum somewhere but I can't find it right now.
They are being edited or removed ASA we see them.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
If your car is in the USA right now, The dealer should have a very firm date as to when they will take delivery!!!
Angela,

Thanks

I just called the sales rep and informed him the VIN on the spec sheet is a good number and I can get insurance off that number today.

They are looking into it to see if they have a delivery date

Covid-19 they tell me has made it a challenge to get firm delivery dates.

Russ
 

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Hey RussC, what date was "today"? I'll edit the title.
 

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I am just as excited as you are to take delivery. I can’t wait wait to hear about the car and how it works out for you. This is going to be my next car in a year or 2
 

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Discussion Starter #109
Angela,

Thanks. The Prime will be delivered to the dealer Aug 5th.

I will report my driving impressions and send pictures.

I realize I am getting a good deal, but $41,000 is still the most I have ever spent on a car.

I always payoff in 2 1/2 years so the bottom line is important.


Russ
 

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All CVTs use a drive belt with pulleys.
The addition of a launch gear in all Toyota CVTs applies to the '19+ Hybrids as well as other non Hybrid and other models which are equipped with a 6 speed manual option on their standard automatic CVT tranny. Just like the non Hybrid ICE motor, the electric motor (in tandem with the coaxial clutched in ICE if necessary) engages the launch gear for faster response than it would otherwise have in previous trannys without the launch gear. In addition to the launch gear is the reduction angle of the metal V drive belt for faster operation. Described in link below.

Total gain in gas mileage savings is not all in the transmission, generators and regenerative braking, but in difference in control of the ICE. The non hybrid ICE use the Otto cycle where the resistance of the piston is identical on all 4 strokes.....hybrids use the ECU to simulate an Atkinson cycle where resistance is reduced on the compression stroke by leaving the intake valve open for the initial portion of the stroke (and gas in the manifold recovered during the next stroke).The reduced resistance in conjunction using this with the regenerative braking recovered electricity is how it can get 40+mpg as compared to lower mpg of other brand hybrids using the Otto cycle on their ICEs. Reduced load in operation of an ICE using the Atkinson cycle produces better gas mileage at the same hp output, but a lag on acceleration - exactly the reason why it is perfectly suited and used in the Toy's hybrid which kicks in the electric with much greater torque than an ICE when acceleration is called for......sort of like a turbo charger....actually more like a supercharger since there full torque available at starting rpm with no turbo lag. That along with the launch gear is what accounts for the punch on acceleration and reduced 6-7 sec. 0-60 mph timing over older Ravs. Punch the accelerator at 70+ mph and it moves out instantly, actually a little scary since there is no normally associated dropping gears in the CVT.....smooth instant constant acceleration more like an airplane on takeoff. I can only imagine the greater kick out of the larger hp Prime.


So much wrong information here.

There's several ways to make a CVT, and only one of them uses a belt and pulley. Toyota hybrids don't have any belts at all -- others have posted the videos as proof, so I'll leave it at that. Nissan also has something called a "toroidal CVT" which (as far as I know) they've only used in one vehicle, but also doesn't have a belt. I seem to remember something about them bringing it back for some future models, but don't quote me on that. And if you look outside of automobiles, there's a whole world of options for CVTs: cones, hydrostatics, magnetic power split devices, ratchets, and more.

Also, the non-hybrid ICE used in the RAV4 (and Camry and others) is actually considered to be an Atkinson cycle as well. The EPA has an incredible document on this engine here: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2019-04/documents/sae-2019-01-0249-benchmarking-2018-toyota-camry-2.5-liter-atkinson-cycle-engine-cooled-egr.pdf. Variable valve timing allows the engine to operate as an Atkinson cycle for efficiency while cruising, but then use Otto when needed for power. The Hybrid version of this engine always runs in the Atkinson cycle IIRC (with an even higher compression ratio), making up for the lack of power with the electric motors.

But no, there's no launch gear at all in these hybrids. There doesn't need to be, because the instant torque of the electric motors is enough. Toyota made a huge mistake with the "eCVT" nomenclature for their hybrid transmissions. It's technically correct, but leads to all sorts of confusion because the technology has absolutely nothing to do with the types of CVT you see in virtually every other car.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
I thought the following may be pertinent;
Charging Your Electric Vehicle
HVRAV

thanks for the info.
I just got my 240 v charger from Amazon. Cost me $331 with tax for a 40 amp.
My neighbor is an electrifying and he will move my 59 amp plug closer in the garage to where o plan to charge. It will cost me $120 for 60 ft of 6 gauge wire.

I can get back 30% in a tax credit for the wire and charger when I do my taxes.

Pretty darn excited. Just purchased the airline tickets for my wife and I to fly to pickup the Prime Aug 7th and drive back home to Utah.

After reading what dealers are marking up in California I am glad I found an honest small town dealer in Oregon.

Russ
 

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Toyota made a huge mistake with the "eCVT" nomenclature for their hybrid transmissions. It's technically correct, but leads to all sorts of confusion because the technology has absolutely nothing to do with the types of CVT you see in virtually every other car.
I think that it is a mater of semantics whether Toyota's hybrid eCVT is a CVT at all. It does allow the engine speed to vary relative to the wheel speed but not by changing gear ratios. Instead uses a planetary gear set (similar to what is found in a differential) that acts as a "power splitting device" that determines the flow of gas and electric power. And it does "Transmit' power from engine to the wheels.

Bottom line: RavDoug, you are correct, Thomcat, you are incorrect. Toyota's CVT with launch gear is used in the non hybrid Corolla and non hybrid Lexus UX but not gas or hybrid Rav4.
 

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....But no, there's no launch gear at all in these hybrids. There doesn't need to be, because the instant torque of the electric motors is enough. Toyota made a huge mistake with the "eCVT" nomenclature for their hybrid transmissions. It's technically correct, but leads to all sorts of confusion because the technology has absolutely nothing to do with the types of CVT you see in virtually every other car.
Agreed. In the case of my Accord Hybrid not only doesn't it have anything remotely related to a CVT (which is what the salesman and as I recall Consumers call it) it actually has no transmission at all.
 

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Dr. Dyno,
I have requested a separate category for the PRIME and was shot down. Can you please explain what the issue or issues might be for not creating one? Thanks!
 

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I guess I see it as, a place for everything and everything in it's place.
What about the TSB category? If it's quantity related why not a sticky under General for that?
Excuse me but I'm into organizing lately.
 

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I guess I see it as, a place for everything and everything in it's place.
What about the TSB category? If it's quantity related why not a sticky under General for that?
Excuse but I'm into organizing lately.
I was also surprised to not see a category when I joined. Makes more sense now that they’re for sale though. 🤞
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Hey RussC, what date was "today"? I'll edit the title.
Dr Dyno,

That is kind of you.

The Rav 4 Prime SE will arrive at the Oregon Dealer between Aug 3-5

We purchased Southwest tickets for Friday, Aug 7th.

If you want to change the title the official date we get the keys will be Aug 7th.

I will take pictures and post.

Everything has fell into place. We got the financing today for 1.9% for 60 months and we hope to have her paid off in 2 1/2 years.

The vehicle is already on my insurance policy since I had to take the check today from the credit union.

The airport is an hour from the dealer and they are going to pick us up and have the battery fully charged and a full tank of gas.

We should be in and out in 15 minutes at the dealer since everything was done over the internet.

Russ
 
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