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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Are the heads on these engines identical to the Celicas that use them? I would like to get a set of cams to stuff in here for a bit more torque, and since they're out in the wild for Celicas I would like to know if they fit. Would also like to get a shorty header if celica headers can be made to work --I'm assuming a custom cat back would be necessary.

Thanks
 

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The engine is a stock RAV4 is a 3SFE so most 3SFE parts will work, there may be some year differences, I don't know without more information about what year parts you want to use. The 3SGT and 3SGE cams won't work because the heads are different.
 

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For the money, time, and effort it would take to bump up the performance on the rather anemic 3SFE engine, wouldn't it be better to swap for a red top BEAMS 3SGE engine or if you want high performance a 3SGT turbo charged engine?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
For the money, time, and effort it would take to bump up the performance on the rather anemic 3SFE engine, wouldn't it be better to swap for a red top BEAMS 3SGE engine or if you want high performance a 3SGT turbo charged engine?
I'm not interested in doing much beyond getting a port tune and a few odds and ends from a wrecker like a gen 1 3SGE celica header and intake manifold because those fit on a 3SFE motor. Most extreme thing I might do is get the cams reground because that's relatively cheap.

Don't really want to mess with a swap or forced induction since it would be cheaper to get a diesel SWB Land Cruiser at that point.

Speaking of --what tool are people tuning these with? I've used SCT products for my Fords, but I do not know what flasher I need to tune a Toyota ECU.
 

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I know of no Toyota ECU tuner. There might be one, but I've never heard of it. Closest thing is a Toyota laptop app that will let you adjust settings for everything except the ECU, but I don't know if anything in a RAV4 is adjustable. Especially a 4.1.

If your motor has an AFM, you might get away with some cams without tuning. If no AFM, I think you'll have to tune it, one way or the other, if you change something major like the cams. There's always MegaSquirt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know of no Toyota ECU tuner. There might be one, but I've never heard of it. Closest thing is a Toyota laptop app that will let you adjust settings for everything except the ECU, but I don't know if anything in a RAV4 is adjustable. Especially a 4.1.

If your motor has an AFM, you might get away with some cams without tuning. If no AFM, I think you'll have to tune it, one way or the other, if you change something major like the cams. There's always MegaSquirt.
How on earth are people getting these things under boost without ECU tuning? Or is everyone the world over paying $1000+ to put these on a dyno and get a performance shop tune them?

On a related note, does a rear O2 spacer dodge the CEL on these when you get headers without a tune? And then will a ram air intake + stock 3SGE manifold + aftermarket 3SGE header or even just a ram air intake + aftermarket header throw off A/F to the point I need to shove it on a dyno to get it tuned?
 

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People get boost by swapping the whole motor and ECU from a car that it came in. That's what I did. If you just put a turbo on a 3SFE motor, you are going to have to do something else to manage the fuel. There are other kludges used, like a rising rate fuel pressure regulator or a piggy back ECU. Or you can go stand-alone like a MegaSquirt, as I mentioned.

The rear oxygen sensor is just there to make sure that the catalytic converter is working. I don't think headers are going to affect that at all.

There was a thread here recently from a guy in Poland that said he had a friend that cracked the Toyota ECU and could remap them. He could make a lot of money, as that's the only one I've heard of.

I have not heard of putting 3SGE manifolds on a 3SFE head. Do you have an example where someone has done this? Do the gaskets match? The 3SFE exhaust manifold really looks pretty well built. Fairly equal length tubular. I would doubt you could get much more out of it with something else.
 

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You're in Australia, you can get Japanese imports fitted with the 3SGE or BEAMS as standard. No point doing something that's never been done before, so difficult and expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The rear oxygen sensor is just there to make sure that the catalytic converter is working. I don't think headers are going to affect that at all.
A spacer lets you run a high flow catalytic converter (or none at all) without a CEL on some vehicles. I like it when my CEL isn't constantly on --lets me know when something goes wrong (sometimes anyways, since my alternator failed last night so I'm wasting my Monday morning stuffing a new one in.)

There was a thread here recently from a guy in Poland that said he had a friend that cracked the Toyota ECU and could remap them. He could make a lot of money, as that's the only one I've heard of.
Anyone offering legitimate universal dyno tunes for all vehicles will have hardware and software to bypass tuner protection and remap almost any ECU. There's also ways to get at the maps using open source hex editors and relatively inexpensive tools to bypass tuner protection.

However despite having the know how, even 'relatively inexpensive' universal tuning equipment would cost as much as I have into this vehicle. I'm not chasing that white rabbit.

I have not heard of putting 3SGE manifolds on a 3SFE head. Do you have an example where someone has done this? Do the gaskets match? The 3SFE exhaust manifold really looks pretty well built. Fairly equal length tubular. I would doubt you could get much more out of it with something else.
Exhaust on the 1st and 2nd gen 3SGE is the same as the 3SFE. Intake is the same as the 5SFE. Pretty common celeca swaps globally. Apparently makes for better torque.

In a celica I had as a teenager I shoved a 2.2L 5SFE into a 3SFE car when I spun a rod bearing --easiest swap I've ever done on any car. Stripped both motors down, moved everything off the 3SFE to the 5SFE and shoved it in using a horribly unsafe pulley system I jerry rigged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You're in Australia, you can get Japanese imports fitted with the 3SGE or BEAMS as standard. No point doing something that's never been done before, so difficult and expensive.
I would be far from the first person to have cams reground on a 3SFE. People have been doing it to Celicas and Camrys since the 80s. It was common practice to do alongside the TRD high compression kit for the 3SFE.

This is a dirt cheap camping machine. I don't want to get more than a few hundred dollars into modding it using junkyard parts --I just want a few more nm of torque for hill climbs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Getting a quote on a regrind and ECU tune from Camtech in New South Wales. They said it should be pretty inexpensive and they can set it all up based on the intake and exhaust setup I'll be running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Keep us posted... maybe I will copy this setup
New cams will require custom thicker shims and a tune.

Cams will come from a company in NSW and the shims will come from a different company in VIC. Got a quote on the cams (costs more than the $75 a cam that you would pay in the United States) but I am still waiting to hear from the company in VIC about the shims. I also need to find a local tuner in the ACT because I am not in the mood to tow my car all the way to Sydney or Wollongong just for a tune.

I've got a couple other awesome mods on the way too, like a fully custom stainless hydraulics system (the entire system including all feed lines not just the final brake and clutch lines), custom intake, custom bash plate, custom drop top, custom roof rack, and a custom exhaust. Should I just start a build thread when those all get underway, or should this just convert into a build thread?
 

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I started a master mods type of thread (http://www.rav4world.com/forums/94-4-1-d-i-y-modifications/206377-1999-4dr-4x4-major-mods.html) and then each individual mod get's it's own but I link it to the master mods thread so that you can tie it all together. You can also list all your mods in "My Garage" (http://www.rav4world.com/forums/garage.php?do=viewvehicle&vehicle_id=8241) and you can insert links there but they aren't live. Still someone could copy and paste the links if they want to follow your upgrades.

BTW I haven't found a way to change the tuning on a RAV4.1 yet either and as far as I know all the "piggyback" chips that plug into the OBDII port or elsewhere are ripoffs.

Good luck with her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
BTW I haven't found a way to change the tuning on a RAV4.1 yet either and as far as I know all the "piggyback" chips that plug into the OBDII port or elsewhere are ripoffs.
It's because these are all tuner protected so you can't tune through the port. You'll need a bench flash tool (made by a reputable company like Alientech that makes a tool called the K-Tag and purchased from an official dealer for way too much money for a single vehicle) and to solder the connections to the ECU's printed circuit board. The tuner protection gets bypassed by doing some CKSUM hacks and the tool rebooting the ECU several times.

Once you're in, you can dump the maps, and use any open source toolkit you want to edit the maps which you then write to the ECU using that same tool. It's not the easiest thing in the world, so for one vehicle, it's best to find a legit performance dyno tuner in your area. I've been tuning since university when I was on the racing team, but I'm paying someone to slap this on a dyno because I cannot justify dropping as much as I spent on the car on ECU tuning stuff.
 
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