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I still think the Kill-A-Watt suggested by phwang7 is the easiest and most accurate. I've had the first model for over 10 years and still use it. I'm sure someone in your surroundings has one. If you just want to measure "Current" or amperage, it only takes a second. If you wish to measure, total kw/h used, then it will need to remained plugged in for the duration of the charge. The original model had no data memory so as soon as you unplugged it from the wall or if power flickers, you loose the accumulated data. Perhaps the newer models have some memory retention... IDK.

169047


The original model is still available on Amazon for $50 CAD.

dp
 

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2021 Rav4 Prime SE X2
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I'd like to check the L1 charger that came with my Prius Prime, and see just how much power it draws. I'd need a line-splitter and an inductive ammeter, which I don't currently own, but maybe I can borrow one from an electrician friend I know. I wish the car itself would give more information about the rate of charge, other than how many hours remaining to full charge, and how miles of EV driving range are accumulating as the charge builds up. Volt/amps being delivered to the battery, or volt/amps coming into the charger, would be nice to know.
Prius Prime could be toggled between 8 and 12amps on the MID, using L1 EVSE.
 

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My monthly bill also shows that. However, when I log on to the web site, I am able to see daily usage by week/day/hour/15-min. Does your utility have a website that you log into?
Yes.It's www.smud.org. When I log into my account, there is a web page with the tools to show useage by kilowatts or cost. The smallest time unit however is a full hour; it doesn't go to 15-minute precision. I assume my meter doesn't track consumption any closer than a full hour.
 

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I still think the Kill-A-Watt suggested by phwang7 is the easiest and most accurate. I've had the first model for over 10 years and still use it. I'm sure someone in your surroundings has one. If you just want to measure "Current" or amperage, it only takes a second. If you wish to measure, total kw/h used, then it will need to remained plugged in for the duration of the charge. The original model had no data memory so as soon as you unplugged it from the wall or if power flickers, you loose the accumulated data. Perhaps the newer models have some memory retention... IDK.

View attachment 169047

The original model is still available on Amazon for $50 CAD.

dp
I can borrow those from my library. :D Not sure whether the Prime would be too much for it.
 

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I don't think it will be a problem, but, if you can wait 8 or 9 days... I'll be able to check it WITH MY OWN PRIME!!!!!! 😁

dp
I'm hoping to get mine by this weekend. It's a white XSE. It was supposedly in the Port of Oakland shipping terminal yesterday, being unloaded. It's supposed to get to Benecia on Thursday or Friday, then to the dealership by Friday or Saturday. I'm going to start going to the dealership and camp out there on Thursday, just in case the transport truck shows up with it early. I don't want to have this one get sold out from under me by another salesman, like the last four I tried to buy. I've been trying to buy an R4P since last January! I want a white one, and considering the $44K price, I am not willing to compromise with myself over the color. Why white? here in central California, it gets damn hot in the summer months, like 100°~110°F every day between late May and early October, and white reflects the most heat away from the car. I've decided on the XSE, mainly because that's the only way you can get a 6kW charger on an R4P in the States. I can stand to sit in the car and read for 2 hours at a public charging station, but the 4 hours required by the 3 kW charger in the SE is too slow. It kind of ticks me off that Toyota in the US is reserving the 6kW charger for only the XSE, when apparently all R4P's sold in Canada get it.
 

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I'm hoping to get mine by this weekend. It's a white XSE. It was supposedly in the Port of Oakland shipping terminal yesterday, being unloaded. It's supposed to get to Benecia on Thursday or Friday, then to the dealership by Friday or Saturday. I'm going to start going to the dealership and camp out there on Thursday, just in case the transport truck shows up with it early. I don't want to have this one get sold out from under me by another salesman, like the last four I tried to buy. I've been trying to buy an R4P since last January! I want a white one, and considering the $44K price, I am not willing to compromise with myself over the color. Why white? here in central California, it gets damn hot in the summer months, like 100°~110°F every day between late May and early October, and white reflects the most heat away from the car. I've decided on the XSE, mainly because that's the only way you can get a 6kW charger on an R4P in the States. I can stand to sit in the car and read for 2 hours at a public charging station, but the 4 hours required by the 3 kW charger in the SE is too slow. It kind of ticks me off that Toyota in the US is reserving the 6kW charger for only the XSE, when apparently all R4P's sold in Canada get it.
I got a White SE for the same hot temperature reason. XSE has a black top that I really don't like.
 

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I'm hoping to get mine by this weekend. It's a white XSE. It was supposedly in the Port of Oakland shipping terminal yesterday, being unloaded. It's supposed to get to Benecia on Thursday or Friday, then to the dealership by Friday or Saturday. I'm going to start going to the dealership and camp out there on Thursday, just in case the transport truck shows up with it early. I don't want to have this one get sold out from under me by another salesman, like the last four I tried to buy. I've been trying to buy an R4P since last January! I want a white one, and considering the $44K price, I am not willing to compromise with myself over the color. Why white? here in central California, it gets damn hot in the summer months, like 100°~110°F every day between late May and early October, and white reflects the most heat away from the car. I've decided on the XSE, mainly because that's the only way you can get a 6kW charger on an R4P in the States. I can stand to sit in the car and read for 2 hours at a public charging station, but the 4 hours required by the 3 kW charger in the SE is too slow. It kind of ticks me off that Toyota in the US is reserving the 6kW charger for only the XSE, when apparently all R4P's sold in Canada get it.
Not even. I think only XSE with premium gets 6.6 and not the regular XSE, which is a shame.
 

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I got a White SE for the same hot temperature reason. XSE has a black top that I really don't like.
I really wish that the R4P XSE didn't have black upholstery and a sunroof as standard. Both features are terrible when you live somewhere with hot summer weather. And sooner or later, sunroofs always start leaking rainwater when the rubber seals dry out and shrink. I can partially negate the heat retention problem of the black seat upholstery by installing aftermarket seat covers in a light grey material, but there's nothing to be done about the sunroof. AFAIK, it's standard on all R4P's in the XSE trim, and there's no way to get one with a plain steel roof. And if you want the 6 kW charger, that's only available in the XSE.
 

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I do understand that some people don't like sun roofs, but I would like to point out that they do have a sliding shade. Also, as for leaking, it may still be an issue, but all my cars since 2001 have had sunroofs and none leaked. I keep my cars for around 10 years. I even have a 2013 Wrangler with no leaks 😁 🤞 . However I do treat the rubber seals with RV Slid-out seal conditioner.

169086


This stuff is good for all the door seals as well as the sunroof rubber seals.

Being in the Canadian East coast, the heat form the sunroof is not much of a concern for 45 weeks out of the year ;)
dp
 

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I'm hoping to get mine by this weekend. It's a white XSE. It was supposedly in the Port of Oakland shipping terminal yesterday, being unloaded. It's supposed to get to Benecia on Thursday or Friday, then to the dealership by Friday or Saturday. I'm going to start going to the dealership and camp out there on Thursday, just in case the transport truck shows up with it early. I don't want to have this one get sold out from under me by another salesman, like the last four I tried to buy. I've been trying to buy an R4P since last January! I want a white one, and considering the $44K price, I am not willing to compromise with myself over the color. Why white? here in central California, it gets damn hot in the summer months, like 100°~110°F every day between late May and early October, and white reflects the most heat away from the car. I've decided on the XSE, mainly because that's the only way you can get a 6kW charger on an R4P in the States. I can stand to sit in the car and read for 2 hours at a public charging station, but the 4 hours required by the 3 kW charger in the SE is too slow. It kind of ticks me off that Toyota in the US is reserving the 6kW charger for only the XSE, when apparently all R4P's sold in Canada get it.
The Altair Leader left Benicia yesterday 7/6, never went to OAK. Good luck.
 

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The Altair Leader left Benicia yesterday 7/6, never went to OAK. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice on the Altair Leader. I've used the Vessel Tracker website before, but would not have know the name of the car carrier that Toyota contracts with. Anyway, I went to the dealership to try and get more information on the car, and learned some things today that I was unaware of regard the R4P. :
1. What we can glean as private citizens from the Internet about Toyota's vehicles, is only a tiny fraction of the amount of information that a sales rep can pull up on a Dealership computer. For example, a sales rep, on a dealership computer terminal, can actually look "right into the factory", in a manner of speaking, and see actual production schedules of vehicles. And they can, place an order for a car built to exactly the trim level and packages that a customer wants, (within limits).

2. The Rav4 Prime comes in 2 trim levels -SE starting at $38,250, and XSE starting at $41,575. The functional differences between the two trims are surprisingly few:
What you get for the $3,300 extra cost is mostly eye candy. Mechanically, the two trims are identical: same engine, same transaxle, same battery, same EV driving range.
What the XSE has as standard that the SE doesn't:
a) Single Moonroof (above the front seats only). The SE has a plain steel roof unless you order a extra-cost package.
b) front center vent flow controls for the air conditioning.
c) The backup camera has "dynamic" grid lines that curve to show the car's projected path as you turn the steering wheel. The SE's backup camera has a static grid. Same field of view, just not quite as fancy as the XSE's camera.
d) SofTex seat upholstery. It's basically "faux leather". The SE's seat upholstery is cloth. Personally, I hate the SofTex stuff, I sweat like crazy in warm weather. It doesn't "breathe" like cloth, and even with real leather seats, you don't sweat as bad.
e) Full-Range DRCC Cruise Control. This works at any speed from zero to the maximum speed of the car. What it does is sense the speed of the vehicle directly in front of you (up to 120 meters away), and if that vehicle slows down, your car automatically slows down with it, all the way down to a full stop. When traffic starts moving again, your car starts moving too, without the driver having to do anything. The SE trim has a not-quite-as-fancy DRCC that (I think), requires the driver to press the accelerator again to "wake up" the DRCC after a stop. And you might have to press the "Resume" button, too. Another thing that has changed recently on Toyoa Hybrids is the minimum set speed for cruise control. My 2019 Prius Prime will only accept a "set cruise control" command at 28 mph or more. My friend's 2020 Corolla Hybrid LE accepts a "set" command all the way down to 18 mph.
f) Steering-wheel mounted paddle shifters. What these actually do on a car that has an electric CVT transaxle, I think, is that they influence the speed control of the MG1 motor. For those of you who are not technically familiar with the inner workings of the Totota Hybrid Synergy Drive, the powertrain control computer can influence the amount of power being delivered from the gasoline engine in two ways: by injecting more or less gasoline, and by increasing, decreasing, or even reversing, the rotation speed of the MG1 motor. This motor in splined to the sun gear of the Power Split Device, the gasoline engine is splined to the planet gear carrier of the PSD, and outer ring gear of the PSD is geared (along with MG2), to the drive axle differential. The powertrain control computer looks at the speed of the vehicle, how hard the driver is pressing down on the accelerator, the steepness of the road, the state of charge in the traction battery, and it decides how much power is needed from the gasoline engine to supplement the torque being delivered from MG2 and MG3 (the 53 hp motor on the rear axle). The "Continuously Variable" part of the transmission comes from the fact that the torque generated can be infinitely varied by simply giving MG2 and MG3 more or less power from the battery, and more or less power from the gas engine. There actually aren't any gear ratios that can be shifted in the transmission, but the RPM of the gas engine can be sped up or slowed down by varying the spin speed of MG1, because they are both splined to the power split device in such a way that, if the computer tells MG1 to speed up, the gas engine slows down. If MG1 slows down, the gas engine speeds up. In extreme circumstances, where maximum power is needed from the gas engine, at vehicle speeds above about 50 mph, MG1 can actually start spinning backwards, so that the gas engine can reach up to it's 4500 rpm torque peak. Anyway, I think the paddle shifters influence the way that the powertrain control computer feeds battery juice to MG1, and gasoline to the engine, to give the driver a feeling of "shift points". Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous to have this in an E-CVT vehicle, but maybe it helps in Trail mode, off-road, for climbing steep hills at low speed?
g. Auto-dimming rearview mirror with HomeLink®127 universal transceiver. The SE has a plain day/night mirror.
h. 9" touchscreen MID. The SE trim has an 8" touchscreen MID. As far as I can tell, the stereo is the same: 6 speakers, with the same Sirius XM trial period and some other options.
i. An audible alarm for the anti-theft system. Both trims have engine immobilizer, but the SE doesn't have an alarm.
j. The XSE has 19" rims and a slightly taller tire size that gives it 0.1" more ground clearance and 0.5° better approach/departure angle. The SE has 18" rims. This is insignificant. You would never notice the difference, and just putting 50 pounds more or less weight in the car would influence the ground clearance just as much.
k. The lock-to-lock steering wheel range is different, and this is a big surprise. It's not much of a difference, but I would have assumed they would be the same. Probably due to the slight difference in wheel rim and tire size. The actual difference is 2.76 turns in the SE, vs. 2.65 in the XSE. The SE also has a slightly smaller turning radius than the XSE: 36.1' vs. 37.4'
l. The XSE's Curb Weight is 65 pounds more than the SE. But all of the interior and exterior dimensions, and passenger/cargo volumes appear to be identical.

There are a lot of other small changes, like the XSE has fancier interior accent lighting, and maybe a better cup holder than the SE, but I am not convinced that the XSE is really worth $3,300 more than the SE, when the actual functional improvements are so minor. The only "big" visible difference is that all XSE's have a moonroof standard, with this being part of an extra-cost $1,650 package on an SE. I DON'T want a sunroof or moon roof in any case! You lose 2" of headroom. All sunroofs eventually start leaking rainwater. And where I live, there are only maybe 4 weeks in the whole year where you would want to have a sunroof open in any case. It's hot as blazes here from April to October, and so from December-February that you would never want to have even the windows open, let alone a sunroof. Plus, either way, sunroof or moonroof, the structural integrity of the car's body is bound to be less in a roll-over accident.

Okay, the two "Big" functional things that I didn't mention yet in the text above, that a lot of people thought were what separates the SE from the XSE: 6.6 kilowatt charger, and On-Board GPS Navigation. I have bad news about both of these features. NEITHER ONE is available at the base level of either the SE or the XSE. To get either or both of these features, you have to buy extra-cost option packages. Without going into a ton of extra details, suffice to say that you CAN NOT get either of them on ANY Rav4 Prime SE, no matter what Premium packages you add.

1. To get On-Board GPS Navigation, you first have to spec an XSE for $41, 575, then add the Premium Audio and Dynamic Navigation package, which costs $2,435, and it only works for 3 years unless you purchase a subscription after that!
2. To get the 6.6 kW charger, you have to buy the top-level Premium XSE package for $5,760, which includes the Navigation and some other stuff.

Bottom line: To get a Rav4 Prime with on-board Navigation, the very least you will have to spend is $41,575+$2,435 = $44,010.
To get the 6.6kW charger will set you back $41,575+$5,760 = $47,335. In looking at actual XSE's in inventory in the Sacramento area today - there are about 30 within 200 miles of where I live - I saw not a single one with the 6.6 kW charger Premium package that was less than $51,500.

If all you are looking at is the "most functional" features on a car, and you don't care about eye-candy, the XSE has very little that the $38,250 SE doesn't have. Are you willing to spend $9,085 more than a base SE costs, for an XSE with the Premium Package, just to get the 6.6kW charger? I know this sounds insane, and I am really disappointed in Toyota for engaging in this kind of marketing. That 6.6kW charger should be offered by itself as an option on all trims, for a reasonable price, maybe $500 more. It can't possibly cost more than that to make the damn thing, and probably a lot less. But as we all know, this is how cars are marketed. They place the most important items in a car's technology suite, and force you to buy a package, that almost always includes a bunch of non-functional eye-candy that adds very little to the car's capabilities, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Anyway, if you have followed me this far, I will conclude by saying that the white XSE that I had earmarked, that was unloaded in Benecia yesterday, is $44,000 and has neither the Navigation or 6.6kW charger. So, I talked to a sales rep in Fleet, who helped me spec, and order, an SE with just what I want, albeit, sadly, not with the 6.6 kW charger or Nav package. It is scheduled to be built in Japan sometime in September, pending supply of computer chips and lithium battery cells. Because production for this model year is about to end, my car will almost certainly end up being a 2022.
It is a base SE, $38,250. I am adding only 2 things: roof cross bars for $315, and mud guards for $168. With the $1195 delivery fee, the car comes in at just under $40,000. That's $11,000 less than I would have to pay to get one of the few that are available in the area that have the 6.6kW charger. I might have it by October sometime.
 

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Thanks for the advice on the Altair Leader. I've used the Vessel Tracker website before, but would not have know the name of the car carrier that Toyota contracts with. Anyway, I went to the dealership to try and get more information on the car, and learned some things today that I was unaware of regard the R4P. :
1. What we can glean as private citizens from the Internet about Toyota's vehicles, is only a tiny fraction of the amount of information that a sales rep can pull up on a Dealership computer. For example, a sales rep, on a dealership computer terminal, can actually look "right into the factory", in a manner of speaking, and see actual production schedules of vehicles. And they can, place an order for a car built to exactly the trim level and packages that a customer wants, (within limits).

2. The Rav4 Prime comes in 2 trim levels -SE starting at $38,250, and XSE starting at $41,575. The functional differences between the two trims are surprisingly few:
What you get for the $3,300 extra cost is mostly eye candy. Mechanically, the two trims are identical: same engine, same transaxle, same battery, same EV driving range.
What the XSE has as standard that the SE doesn't:
a) Single Moonroof (above the front seats only). The SE has a plain steel roof unless you order a extra-cost package.
b) front center vent flow controls for the air conditioning.
c) The backup camera has "dynamic" grid lines that curve to show the car's projected path as you turn the steering wheel. The SE's backup camera has a static grid. Same field of view, just not quite as fancy as the XSE's camera.
d) SofTex seat upholstery. It's basically "faux leather". The SE's seat upholstery is cloth. Personally, I hate the SofTex stuff, I sweat like crazy in warm weather. It doesn't "breathe" like cloth, and even with real leather seats, you don't sweat as bad.
e) Full-Range DRCC Cruise Control. This works at any speed from zero to the maximum speed of the car. What it does is sense the speed of the vehicle directly in front of you (up to 120 meters away), and if that vehicle slows down, your car automatically slows down with it, all the way down to a full stop. When traffic starts moving again, your car starts moving too, without the driver having to do anything. The SE trim has a not-quite-as-fancy DRCC that (I think), requires the driver to press the accelerator again to "wake up" the DRCC after a stop. And you might have to press the "Resume" button, too. Another thing that has changed recently on Toyoa Hybrids is the minimum set speed for cruise control. My 2019 Prius Prime will only accept a "set cruise control" command at 28 mph or more. My friend's 2020 Corolla Hybrid LE accepts a "set" command all the way down to 18 mph.
f) Steering-wheel mounted paddle shifters. What these actually do on a car that has an electric CVT transaxle, I think, is that they influence the speed control of the MG1 motor. For those of you who are not technically familiar with the inner workings of the Totota Hybrid Synergy Drive, the powertrain control computer can influence the amount of power being delivered from the gasoline engine in two ways: by injecting more or less gasoline, and by increasing, decreasing, or even reversing, the rotation speed of the MG1 motor. This motor in splined to the sun gear of the Power Split Device, the gasoline engine is splined to the planet gear carrier of the PSD, and outer ring gear of the PSD is geared (along with MG2), to the drive axle differential. The powertrain control computer looks at the speed of the vehicle, how hard the driver is pressing down on the accelerator, the steepness of the road, the state of charge in the traction battery, and it decides how much power is needed from the gasoline engine to supplement the torque being delivered from MG2 and MG3 (the 53 hp motor on the rear axle). The "Continuously Variable" part of the transmission comes from the fact that the torque generated can be infinitely varied by simply giving MG2 and MG3 more or less power from the battery, and more or less power from the gas engine. There actually aren't any gear ratios that can be shifted in the transmission, but the RPM of the gas engine can be sped up or slowed down by varying the spin speed of MG1, because they are both splined to the power split device in such a way that, if the computer tells MG1 to speed up, the gas engine slows down. If MG1 slows down, the gas engine speeds up. In extreme circumstances, where maximum power is needed from the gas engine, at vehicle speeds above about 50 mph, MG1 can actually start spinning backwards, so that the gas engine can reach up to it's 4500 rpm torque peak. Anyway, I think the paddle shifters influence the way that the powertrain control computer feeds battery juice to MG1, and gasoline to the engine, to give the driver a feeling of "shift points". Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous to have this in an E-CVT vehicle, but maybe it helps in Trail mode, off-road, for climbing steep hills at low speed?
g. Auto-dimming rearview mirror with HomeLink®127 universal transceiver. The SE has a plain day/night mirror.
h. 9" touchscreen MID. The SE trim has an 8" touchscreen MID. As far as I can tell, the stereo is the same: 6 speakers, with the same Sirius XM trial period and some other options.
i. An audible alarm for the anti-theft system. Both trims have engine immobilizer, but the SE doesn't have an alarm.
j. The XSE has 19" rims and a slightly taller tire size that gives it 0.1" more ground clearance and 0.5° better approach/departure angle. The SE has 18" rims. This is insignificant. You would never notice the difference, and just putting 50 pounds more or less weight in the car would influence the ground clearance just as much.
k. The lock-to-lock steering wheel range is different, and this is a big surprise. It's not much of a difference, but I would have assumed they would be the same. Probably due to the slight difference in wheel rim and tire size. The actual difference is 2.76 turns in the SE, vs. 2.65 in the XSE. The SE also has a slightly smaller turning radius than the XSE: 36.1' vs. 37.4'
l. The XSE's Curb Weight is 65 pounds more than the SE. But all of the interior and exterior dimensions, and passenger/cargo volumes appear to be identical.

There are a lot of other small changes, like the XSE has fancier interior accent lighting, and maybe a better cup holder than the SE, but I am not convinced that the XSE is really worth $3,300 more than the SE, when the actual functional improvements are so minor. The only "big" visible difference is that all XSE's have a moonroof standard, with this being part of an extra-cost $1,650 package on an SE. I DON'T want a sunroof or moon roof in any case! You lose 2" of headroom. All sunroofs eventually start leaking rainwater. And where I live, there are only maybe 4 weeks in the whole year where you would want to have a sunroof open in any case. It's hot as blazes here from April to October, and so from December-February that you would never want to have even the windows open, let alone a sunroof. Plus, either way, sunroof or moonroof, the structural integrity of the car's body is bound to be less in a roll-over accident.

Okay, the two "Big" functional things that I didn't mention yet in the text above, that a lot of people thought were what separates the SE from the XSE: 6.6 kilowatt charger, and On-Board GPS Navigation. I have bad news about both of these features. NEITHER ONE is available at the base level of either the SE or the XSE. To get either or both of these features, you have to buy extra-cost option packages. Without going into a ton of extra details, suffice to say that you CAN NOT get either of them on ANY Rav4 Prime SE, no matter what Premium packages you add.

1. To get On-Board GPS Navigation, you first have to spec an XSE for $41, 575, then add the Premium Audio and Dynamic Navigation package, which costs $2,435, and it only works for 3 years unless you purchase a subscription after that!
2. To get the 6.6 kW charger, you have to buy the top-level Premium XSE package for $5,760, which includes the Navigation and some other stuff.

Bottom line: To get a Rav4 Prime with on-board Navigation, the very least you will have to spend is $41,575+$2,435 = $44,010.
To get the 6.6kW charger will set you back $41,575+$5,760 = $47,335. In looking at actual XSE's in inventory in the Sacramento area today - there are about 30 within 200 miles of where I live - I saw not a single one with the 6.6 kW charger Premium package that was less than $51,500.

If all you are looking at is the "most functional" features on a car, and you don't care about eye-candy, the XSE has very little that the $38,250 SE doesn't have. Are you willing to spend $9,085 more than a base SE costs, for an XSE with the Premium Package, just to get the 6.6kW charger? I know this sounds insane, and I am really disappointed in Toyota for engaging in this kind of marketing. That 6.6kW charger should be offered by itself as an option on all trims, for a reasonable price, maybe $500 more. It can't possibly cost more than that to make the damn thing, and probably a lot less. But as we all know, this is how cars are marketed. They place the most important items in a car's technology suite, and force you to buy a package, that almost always includes a bunch of non-functional eye-candy that adds very little to the car's capabilities, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Anyway, if you have followed me this far, I will conclude by saying that the white XSE that I had earmarked, that was unloaded in Benecia yesterday, is $44,000 and has neither the Navigation or 6.6kW charger. So, I talked to a sales rep in Fleet, who helped me spec, and order, an SE with just what I want, albeit, sadly, not with the 6.6 kW charger or Nav package. It is scheduled to be built in Japan sometime in September, pending supply of computer chips and lithium battery cells. Because production for this model year is about to end, my car will almost certainly end up being a 2022.
It is a base SE, $38,250. I am adding only 2 things: roof cross bars for $315, and mud guards for $168. With the $1195 delivery fee, the car comes in at just under $40,000. That's $11,000 less than I would have to pay to get one of the few that are available in the area that have the 6.6kW charger. I might have it by October sometime.
I just love it when a buyer does the deep dive. I came to the same conclusion a long time ago. I can see you have been watching Dr. John Kelly's Weber State videos. Great description of how the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive works. Most of the speculation I see on other threads about horsepower and torque are just that. One of the most surprising info about THSD is the speed at which MG1, MG2 and MG3 spin, up to 17000 rpm all controlled by the ECU along with the engine, for maximum efficiency. Good luck with your purchase and post photos when you get it. Interesting to see if the price changes with the MY 22 cars.
 

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I just love it when a buyer does the deep dive. I came to the same conclusion a long time ago. I can see you have been watching Dr. John Kelly's Weber State videos. Great description of how the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive works. Most of the speculation I see on other threads about horsepower and torque are just that. One of the most surprising info about THSD is the speed at which MG1, MG2 and MG3 spin, up to 17000 rpm all controlled by the ECU along with the engine, for maximum efficiency. Good luck with your purchase and post photos when you get it. Interesting to see if the price changes with the MY 22 cars.
Yes! I LOVE John Kelly's Deep Dive videos on the HSD transaxle! I have a P610 in my 2019 Prius Prime, and so does my friend in her 2020 Corolla Hybrid. The Rav4 Hybrid, Rav4 Prime, Sienna, Camry Hybrid, and the Highlander Hybrid, (all of the 2.5 liter ICE cars) have the P710. I've seen another great video on YouTube (not by Weber State), that explains how the synchronous motors in the Toyota HSD and the Tesla cars work. It shows, with animated diagrams, how the rotating magnetic field generated in the stator locks into the permanent magnets in the rotor, forcing the rotor to turn at the same rotation speed, as long as the torque demand doesn't exceed the strength of the magnetic field that the stator is capable of.

A white SE Prime was delivered from Benecia to Elk Grove Toyota late last night, and I have an invite from my sales rep to look at it this morning. But, I think it is loaded with crap option packages, including the moon roof which I don't want, and they want $42,500K for it. But it's only 7 miles away, so I'll probably drive over and take a look at it. I especially want to see how much the moon roof takes away from the headroom compared to a non-moon-roofed Rav4. Another surprising fact that I found out last night from my sales rep: You can't get a Rav4 with a Totota-installed trailer hitch. It's not either a factory or Port-Installed option. I found that curious, considering that Toyota touts the Rav4 Prime's 2,500 pound towing capacity. Have to get a Curt hitch from U-Haul or install one yourself.

Okay, I just got back from the dealer. I can report this: The moonroof does in fact take away about 2" from the interior headroom compared to a Rav4 with a plain steel roof. This car had a $1,675 package on it that included the moonroof, power driver's seat, and a heated steering wheel (completely unnecessary in California). There were an additional $800 in useless eye-candy options that I didn't want, and certainly didn't want to have to pay for. It did have cross bars on the roof, which I do want, as we already own a Thule cargo pod, which I use on my Prius Prime and on Pauline's Corolla Hybrid. Those cross bars are $315 and are actually worth the money, at least to me. So, I did sit in the car, played with the controls and the steering, and the seat adjustments, but ultimately, I told the salesman "I'll pass on this one. I really don't want the moonroof, and the car I ordered yesterday won't have it, and it's $2,400 less than this one". I've waited 8 months for a Rav4 Prime, I can wait three more to get exactly what I want..
 

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Yes! I LOVE John Kelly's Deep Dive videos on the HSD transaxle! I have a P610 in my 2019 Prius Prime, and so does my friend in her 2020 Corolla Hybrid. The Rav4 Hybrid, Rav4 Prime, Sienna, Camry Hybrid, and the Highlander Hybrid, (all of the 2.5 liter ICE cars) have the P710. I've seen another great video on YouTube (not by Weber State), that explains how the synchronous motors in the Toyota HSD and the Tesla cars work. It shows, with animated diagrams, how the rotating magnetic field generated in the stator locks into the permanent magnets in the rotor, forcing the rotor to turn at the same rotation speed, as long as the torque demand doesn't exceed the strength of the magnetic field that the stator is capable of.

A white SE Prime was delivered from Benecia to Elk Grove Toyota late last night, and I have an invite from my sales rep to look at it this morning. But, I think it is loaded with crap option packages, including the moon roof which I don't want, and they want $44K for it, way too much for an SE. But it's only 7 miles away, so I'll probably drive over and take a look at it. I especially want to see how much the moon roof takes away from the headroom compared to a non-moon-You can't get a Rroofed Rav4. Another surprising fact that I found out last night from my sales rep: av4 with a Totota-installed trailer hitch. It's not either a factory or Port-Installed option. I found that curious, considering that Toyota touts the Rav4 Prime's 2,500 pound towing capacity. Have to get a Curt hitch from U-Haul or install one yourself.
We had P610's in our 2017 Prius Primes (2), I believe the Highlander HY has the same P810 as R4P.

We have both and frankly the difference isn't all that much. You'll notice the sun visors on the moonroofs seem to be about level, vs the non moonroofs slant up a little.

It's a little more involved than the port installed accessories normally done, including removing the rear bumper and cutting the cover, besides the dealers can charge $$$ for it, see other posts about this.

Try to drive the R4P in Elk Grove, you'll love it. When I lived in CA, passed Sacto many times on the way to Tahoe.
 

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Having owned an SE for over a month, I've come to the conclusion the 3.3 kw charger is only good for overnight charging at home. Let's say it's the middle of day, you are out and about, and you have an hour to add some ev range to the car. You drive only 5 miles out of your way to a charging station. You charge for one hour, and then drive back to your intended destination. You spent 10 miles of EV to add 10 miles of range. I've come to really dislike the 3.3 kw charger.
You have the engine to power the car and differential is cost per mile is marginal. The 40 mile range from a overnight charge is nice and all you need.
 

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Thanks for the advice on the Altair Leader. I've used the Vessel Tracker website before, but would not have know the name of the car carrier that Toyota contracts with. Anyway, I went to the dealership to try and get more information on the car, and learned some things today that I was unaware of regard the R4P. :
1. What we can glean as private citizens from the Internet about Toyota's vehicles, is only a tiny fraction of the amount of information that a sales rep can pull up on a Dealership computer. For example, a sales rep, on a dealership computer terminal, can actually look "right into the factory", in a manner of speaking, and see actual production schedules of vehicles. And they can, place an order for a car built to exactly the trim level and packages that a customer wants, (within limits).

2. The Rav4 Prime comes in 2 trim levels -SE starting at $38,250, and XSE starting at $41,575. The functional differences between the two trims are surprisingly few:
What you get for the $3,300 extra cost is mostly eye candy. Mechanically, the two trims are identical: same engine, same transaxle, same battery, same EV driving range.
What the XSE has as standard that the SE doesn't:
a) Single Moonroof (above the front seats only). The SE has a plain steel roof unless you order a extra-cost package.
b) front center vent flow controls for the air conditioning.
c) The backup camera has "dynamic" grid lines that curve to show the car's projected path as you turn the steering wheel. The SE's backup camera has a static grid. Same field of view, just not quite as fancy as the XSE's camera.
d) SofTex seat upholstery. It's basically "faux leather". The SE's seat upholstery is cloth. Personally, I hate the SofTex stuff, I sweat like crazy in warm weather. It doesn't "breathe" like cloth, and even with real leather seats, you don't sweat as bad.
e) Full-Range DRCC Cruise Control. This works at any speed from zero to the maximum speed of the car. What it does is sense the speed of the vehicle directly in front of you (up to 120 meters away), and if that vehicle slows down, your car automatically slows down with it, all the way down to a full stop. When traffic starts moving again, your car starts moving too, without the driver having to do anything. The SE trim has a not-quite-as-fancy DRCC that (I think), requires the driver to press the accelerator again to "wake up" the DRCC after a stop. And you might have to press the "Resume" button, too. Another thing that has changed recently on Toyoa Hybrids is the minimum set speed for cruise control. My 2019 Prius Prime will only accept a "set cruise control" command at 28 mph or more. My friend's 2020 Corolla Hybrid LE accepts a "set" command all the way down to 18 mph.
f) Steering-wheel mounted paddle shifters. What these actually do on a car that has an electric CVT transaxle, I think, is that they influence the speed control of the MG1 motor. For those of you who are not technically familiar with the inner workings of the Totota Hybrid Synergy Drive, the powertrain control computer can influence the amount of power being delivered from the gasoline engine in two ways: by injecting more or less gasoline, and by increasing, decreasing, or even reversing, the rotation speed of the MG1 motor. This motor in splined to the sun gear of the Power Split Device, the gasoline engine is splined to the planet gear carrier of the PSD, and outer ring gear of the PSD is geared (along with MG2), to the drive axle differential. The powertrain control computer looks at the speed of the vehicle, how hard the driver is pressing down on the accelerator, the steepness of the road, the state of charge in the traction battery, and it decides how much power is needed from the gasoline engine to supplement the torque being delivered from MG2 and MG3 (the 53 hp motor on the rear axle). The "Continuously Variable" part of the transmission comes from the fact that the torque generated can be infinitely varied by simply giving MG2 and MG3 more or less power from the battery, and more or less power from the gas engine. There actually aren't any gear ratios that can be shifted in the transmission, but the RPM of the gas engine can be sped up or slowed down by varying the spin speed of MG1, because they are both splined to the power split device in such a way that, if the computer tells MG1 to speed up, the gas engine slows down. If MG1 slows down, the gas engine speeds up. In extreme circumstances, where maximum power is needed from the gas engine, at vehicle speeds above about 50 mph, MG1 can actually start spinning backwards, so that the gas engine can reach up to it's 4500 rpm torque peak. Anyway, I think the paddle shifters influence the way that the powertrain control computer feeds battery juice to MG1, and gasoline to the engine, to give the driver a feeling of "shift points". Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous to have this in an E-CVT vehicle, but maybe it helps in Trail mode, off-road, for climbing steep hills at low speed?
g. Auto-dimming rearview mirror with HomeLink®127 universal transceiver. The SE has a plain day/night mirror.
h. 9" touchscreen MID. The SE trim has an 8" touchscreen MID. As far as I can tell, the stereo is the same: 6 speakers, with the same Sirius XM trial period and some other options.
i. An audible alarm for the anti-theft system. Both trims have engine immobilizer, but the SE doesn't have an alarm.
j. The XSE has 19" rims and a slightly taller tire size that gives it 0.1" more ground clearance and 0.5° better approach/departure angle. The SE has 18" rims. This is insignificant. You would never notice the difference, and just putting 50 pounds more or less weight in the car would influence the ground clearance just as much.
k. The lock-to-lock steering wheel range is different, and this is a big surprise. It's not much of a difference, but I would have assumed they would be the same. Probably due to the slight difference in wheel rim and tire size. The actual difference is 2.76 turns in the SE, vs. 2.65 in the XSE. The SE also has a slightly smaller turning radius than the XSE: 36.1' vs. 37.4'
l. The XSE's Curb Weight is 65 pounds more than the SE. But all of the interior and exterior dimensions, and passenger/cargo volumes appear to be identical.

There are a lot of other small changes, like the XSE has fancier interior accent lighting, and maybe a better cup holder than the SE, but I am not convinced that the XSE is really worth $3,300 more than the SE, when the actual functional improvements are so minor. The only "big" visible difference is that all XSE's have a moonroof standard, with this being part of an extra-cost $1,650 package on an SE. I DON'T want a sunroof or moon roof in any case! You lose 2" of headroom. All sunroofs eventually start leaking rainwater. And where I live, there are only maybe 4 weeks in the whole year where you would want to have a sunroof open in any case. It's hot as blazes here from April to October, and so from December-February that you would never want to have even the windows open, let alone a sunroof. Plus, either way, sunroof or moonroof, the structural integrity of the car's body is bound to be less in a roll-over accident.

Okay, the two "Big" functional things that I didn't mention yet in the text above, that a lot of people thought were what separates the SE from the XSE: 6.6 kilowatt charger, and On-Board GPS Navigation. I have bad news about both of these features. NEITHER ONE is available at the base level of either the SE or the XSE. To get either or both of these features, you have to buy extra-cost option packages. Without going into a ton of extra details, suffice to say that you CAN NOT get either of them on ANY Rav4 Prime SE, no matter what Premium packages you add.

1. To get On-Board GPS Navigation, you first have to spec an XSE for $41, 575, then add the Premium Audio and Dynamic Navigation package, which costs $2,435, and it only works for 3 years unless you purchase a subscription after that!
2. To get the 6.6 kW charger, you have to buy the top-level Premium XSE package for $5,760, which includes the Navigation and some other stuff.

Bottom line: To get a Rav4 Prime with on-board Navigation, the very least you will have to spend is $41,575+$2,435 = $44,010.
To get the 6.6kW charger will set you back $41,575+$5,760 = $47,335. In looking at actual XSE's in inventory in the Sacramento area today - there are about 30 within 200 miles of where I live - I saw not a single one with the 6.6 kW charger Premium package that was less than $51,500.

If all you are looking at is the "most functional" features on a car, and you don't care about eye-candy, the XSE has very little that the $38,250 SE doesn't have. Are you willing to spend $9,085 more than a base SE costs, for an XSE with the Premium Package, just to get the 6.6kW charger? I know this sounds insane, and I am really disappointed in Toyota for engaging in this kind of marketing. That 6.6kW charger should be offered by itself as an option on all trims, for a reasonable price, maybe $500 more. It can't possibly cost more than that to make the damn thing, and probably a lot less. But as we all know, this is how cars are marketed. They place the most important items in a car's technology suite, and force you to buy a package, that almost always includes a bunch of non-functional eye-candy that adds very little to the car's capabilities, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Anyway, if you have followed me this far, I will conclude by saying that the white XSE that I had earmarked, that was unloaded in Benecia yesterday, is $44,000 and has neither the Navigation or 6.6kW charger. So, I talked to a sales rep in Fleet, who helped me spec, and order, an SE with just what I want, albeit, sadly, not with the 6.6 kW charger or Nav package. It is scheduled to be built in Japan sometime in September, pending supply of computer chips and lithium battery cells. Because production for this model year is about to end, my car will almost certainly end up being a 2022.
It is a base SE, $38,250. I am adding only 2 things: roof cross bars for $315, and mud guards for $168. With the $1195 delivery fee, the car comes in at just under $40,000. That's $11,000 less than I would have to pay to get one of the few that are available in the area that have the 6.6kW charger. I might have it by October sometime.
I didn't know the XSE has a better cruise control. I saw a few reviews of the XSE and you still have to resume cruise control manually. The big thing for the top trim for me is the 1500w inverter.
 

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Yes! I LOVE John Kelly's Deep Dive videos on the HSD transaxle! I have a P610 in my 2019 Prius Prime, and so does my friend in her 2020 Corolla Hybrid. The Rav4 Hybrid, Rav4 Prime, Sienna, Camry Hybrid, and the Highlander Hybrid, (all of the 2.5 liter ICE cars) have the P710. I've seen another great video on YouTube (not by Weber State), that explains how the synchronous motors in the Toyota HSD and the Tesla cars work. It shows, with animated diagrams, how the rotating magnetic field generated in the stator locks into the permanent magnets in the rotor, forcing the rotor to turn at the same rotation speed, as long as the torque demand doesn't exceed the strength of the magnetic field that the stator is capable of.

A white SE Prime was delivered from Benecia to Elk Grove Toyota late last night, and I have an invite from my sales rep to look at it this morning. But, I think it is loaded with crap option packages, including the moon roof which I don't want, and they want $42,500K for it. But it's only 7 miles away, so I'll probably drive over and take a look at it. I especially want to see how much the moon roof takes away from the headroom compared to a non-moon-roofed Rav4. Another surprising fact that I found out last night from my sales rep: You can't get a Rav4 with a Totota-installed trailer hitch. It's not either a factory or Port-Installed option. I found that curious, considering that Toyota touts the Rav4 Prime's 2,500 pound towing capacity. Have to get a Curt hitch from U-Haul or install one yourself.

Okay, I just got back from the dealer. I can report this: The moonroof does in fact take away about 2" from the interior headroom compared to a Rav4 with a plain steel roof. This car had a $1,675 package on it that included the moonroof, power driver's seat, and a heated steering wheel (completely unnecessary in California). There were an additional $800 in useless eye-candy options that I didn't want, and certainly didn't want to have to pay for. It did have cross bars on the roof, which I do want, as we already own a Thule cargo pod, which I use on my Prius Prime and on Pauline's Corolla Hybrid. Those cross bars are $315 and are actually worth the money, at least to me. So, I did sit in the car, played with the controls and the steering, and the seat adjustments, but ultimately, I told the salesman "I'll pass on this one. I really don't want the moonroof, and the car I ordered yesterday won't have it, and it's $2,400 less than this one". I've waited 8 months for a Rav4 Prime, I can wait three more to get exactly what I want..
The dealer that i got the rav4 prime se from said that the hitch is dealer installed. They started doing it in highlander at the dealership they said.
 

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You have the engine to power the car and differential is cost per mile is marginal. The 40 mile range from a overnight charge is nice and all you need.
Depends on where you live. As of July 21, 2021, the cheapest Regular gas available in Sacramento, California, is $3.89, at Costco and Sam's Club. If you're not a member of either of those places, the cheapest regular at Arco and Fastrip is $4.01. The "name brand" stations, like Chevron, Union 76, Shell, and Exxon/Mobil are all charging $4.30 to $4.50/gallon. The overall average is about $4.25. Electricity in Sacramento costs 9.5¢/kW-hr between midnight and 06:00, if you arrange an EV charging discount from SMUD, our electric utility. So, let's compare on that basis. The Rav4 Prime in EV mode takes about 17 kW-hr to get a full charge from a 240v L2 charger - cost for that is $1.61, and the car can be driven about 43 miles in EV mode if the terrain is flat (it's a LOT less in hilly areas). So in EV mode, in summer, on flat terrain at 35 mph average on city streets, the car costs about 3.75¢/mile. At higher speeds, and in cold winter weather, the mileage and the battery capacity are about 10% less. Driving in Hybrid mode on gasoline, the car gets about 38 mpg. That's 425¢ worth of gasoline divided by 38 miles = 11.2¢/mile. Bottom line, if you live in California, where gas is crazy expensive, and electricity is cheap and EV charging is being subsidized by the utility company, it costs 3 times more to drive a Rav4 Prime on gasoline than it does on electricity. I don't call 300% a "marginal" difference.
 
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