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Miles, thank you for the picture. The secondary winding resistance is normally between about 9000 ohms and 15,000 ohms. To check the secondary winding's resistance, you have to move the multimeter dial to the 20k ohm position (as in 20,000 ohms). The picture you posted shows the dial in the wrong position.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
:oops: ? Apologies,

Here it is!

Secondary coil resistance:
Cold 9.0 鈭 15.4 k惟 = 12.66
Hot 11.4 鈭 18.1 k惟 = TBD

Thanks Elle_Rav4 for correcting that - big difference! lol

So, the primary coil is bad right? thus get a new one?

Miles
 

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Yes, I would replace the ignition coil. The primary windings at 1.5 ohms are out of spec. The hotter those windings get, the higher the resistance. This could be the problem.

For the newbie interested in learning about modern multimeters: A continuity check with a digital multimeter will likely give the audible beeping for the primary winding but not for the secondary winding. Why? Because digital multimeters have an upper ohms limit for the audible beep continuity test. With my $20 Craftsman digital multimeter, and per the multimeter's specifications, I get the audible beeping (continuity present) whenever the resistance of the circuit being checked is below 60 ohms.

Always triple check that your settings on your multimeter are appropriate for what you are measuring. I have been using a multimeter casually for decades but still blew one up last year by being careless.

You're welcome.
 

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I am going to backpedal on that primary coil resistance reading. See this thread:
Ignition Coil Resistance? . I am not nearly as confident now that this is going to fix the no start.

Do keep in mind the battery voltage may now be too low to permit the Rav4 to start.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Correct, I will have only a couple of shots for this to start the vehicle. If not,, i will need a battery charger or a neighbor.

We will find out tomorrow. When I replace it with this one, I will make sure to take a pic of the readings from the new one.

??

Hey one quick question, when I cleaned the distributor from all of the oil that leaked, what type of cleaner should I have used? Cause it's still crying (leaking) oil from the retainer/ seal. I used Carb cleaner.

I hope I did not screwed the seal.. I did noticed there was a hole vent that was clogged - now it's all cleaned. Looks like was a vent hole.

Talk tomorrow. Thank you immensely for keeping track and up to date with all of this. ??
 

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Are you saying you installed a new O-ring and oil is leaking from it? I am not sure I can really troubleshoot this over the net, but here's what I know:

It sounds like you are aware that one should keep carb cleaner away from plastics and rubbers. Hence: Do not use carb cleaner on distributors. I think it is possible you damaged the new O-ring.

For O-rings that are designed to come in contact with oil, I apply a touch of oil to the O-ring prior to installing.

I would not use any old O-ring for the distributor, either. The distributor O-ring sees fairly high temperatures. I think you want an O-ring made from Viton (a synthetic rubber that deals with high temps and oil well). It is a well-known material. Ask at your local auto parts store (if you have not already)? A store called Harbor Freight sells kits of multiple Viton O-ring sizes here in the United States for under $10 last I checked.

For removing built up grime, I use a popular cleaner called "Simple Green" a lot. One can adjust the concentration depending on the extent of the grime one is trying to clean off. Or letting it sit a half an hour or so eases cleaning. I bet Costa Rica has it.

I think distributor housings (or whole distributors) are worth replacing at least once in a long-lifed vehicle. For one, the bearings can start to fail. The camshaft position sensor wiring can degrade. But for now, stick with your current distributor housing.

At this point I am not hopeful that the new ignition coil is going to fix the problem. But if the ignition coil is old, then it's probably about due for replacement anyway.

Did you install a different igniter?
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Hi Ellen_Rav4,

Here's a mobile pic. to describe the situation.

I did not clean the new O-ring with Carb cleaner. ;)

It was leaking before cleaning, and after - I believe it's residue from stored oil.

Thanks for your input.

On the second image notice the hole - I was telling you about, as it was clogged. perhaps was made to flush oil if leaked? I'm not sure.

Miles.
 

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Where did you get the O-ring? If it is not OEM, are you sure it fits right?

Best guess on the hole is that it is for venting the distributor cap region of gases and condensation. E.g.
"When the gap between the rotor blade and one of the cap towers is jumped or bridged by an electrical flow, ozone gases are created inside the cap. This is the primary reason vent holes are incorporated in distributors."
-- GM Distributor Cap Sets Off Misfire Code
 

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Discussion Starter #32
GREAT NEWS!!

Car started without the new coil. however, waiting for it to get hot so I can make the other tests.. and if I need to be certain is not the coil.

The car started on the first shot!!! I ALMOST CRY!

Ellen_ Rav4 We are doing it!!! THANK YOU MY FRIEND!!

Miles~
 

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What do you think was the problem? Could it be the oil leaking into the distributor? The distributor wiring problem you found (said wiring connecting to the camshaft position sensor mounted in the distributor)? The igniter (that you said you might be replacing)? The distributor needing a good cleaning (including clearing the clogged hole)?

What is the status of the loose timing belt (about which you posted in another thread)?

You're welcome. Hopefully further driving shows the problem is either fixed or you are or on the path to full resolution :)
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Hi Ellen_Rav4,

Here are the results of when hot, however, it still hesitates to start when hot - so we're back to 1 (however, it starts! no low battery worries):

-- Check the resistance of the distributor's Signal Generator (a.k.a. pickup coil or camshaft position sensor, mounted in the distributor housing):
Cold 135 鈭 220 ohms = 173
Hot 175 鈭 255 ohms = TBD

-- Check (again?) the ignition coil's resistances:
Primary coil resistance:
Cold 0.36 鈭 0.55 惟 = 1.5
Hot 0.45 鈭 0.65 惟 = 1.6


-- Secondary coil resistance:
Cold 9.0 鈭 15.4 k惟 = 12.66
Hot 11.4 鈭 18.1 k惟 = 13.4

-- Crankshaft position sensor:
Cold 985 鈭 1,600 惟 = TBD
Hot 1,265 鈭 1,890 惟 = 1.5

One think I know is that the connection is 100% much better, I missed testing the camshaft position sensor when hot.. will test this again after I grab something to eat.

So, my question is: Coil or Igniter?

What I can do,, is drive to the junkyard and test there with a different igniter and coil? or should I go and buy the new coil?

Let me know your thoughts..

I attached images of how the housing looked before I cleaned it. And the connector to the distributor (I don't have cable that thin, so I used electrical high temperature in the mean time I get the new connectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Question, when doing this parts swapping at the junkyard if decided to go - do I have to disconnect and reset the computer every time? or I can just swap.

How to determine is not the Igniter. Can I try turning it on without the Igniter connected?

Thanks,

Miles.
 

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-- Miles, you posted:
"-- Crankshaft position sensor:
Cold 985 鈭 1,600 惟 = TBD
Hot 1,265 鈭 1,890 惟 = 1.5"

Is the 1.5 by any chance 1.5 k ohms = 1500 ohms?

-- The igniter is critical to the ignition system. I do not think you would get any helpful information by omitting it from the system. You might do some damage as well.

-- You do not have to reset the computer every time you swap the igniter and/or ignition coil.

-- I realize you are on a budget. Still I recommend buying both a new igniter and a new ignition coil. If you replace one of these, while the other part is old, then the new part is likely to have its life shortened. Years ago a certain Honda-specialized shop told me this when my old Honda Civic was having myriad distributor, igniter, and coil problems. I naively thought the shop was messing with me, to sell more parts than I needed. Then I confirmed with some online Honda folks that it is indeed prudent to change the igniter and ignition coil at the same time. Honda and Toyota (and other manufacturers') ignition setups in the 1990s were quite similar.

-- Keep in mind that inside the igniter are some serious electronics. Here is the inside of a circa 1990s Honda Civic igniter:
150730

The coil puts out high voltages. High voltages + electronics + heat = a part that is not going to last forever. (This is just my rough take on things. But it is based in a some meaningful experience.)

-- Your igniter also has five connections. One of them is also to the tachometer. See the 1996Rav4EWD.pdf file, page 66.

-- From an amazing web site by a generous and old online acquaintance "John" (a.k.a. Tegger): "A bad igniter usually gives some warning with bizarre symptoms. Most commonly, the car will buck for a split second, like the engine has just missed. At the same time, the tach will fall to zero. The tach falling to zero as the engine loses power will definitively confirm that the igniter is going south, so watch carefully if your car seems to momentarily lose power. Another giveaway is that the Check Engine light will illuminate as the car stalls." This applies to Hondas but may also apply to Toyotas. See https://web.archive.org/web/20080828034334/http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/badigniter.html and https://web.archive.org/web/20080826051003/http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-failure/index.html

-- The salvage yard parts are fine for quick diagnoses but to use the salvage yard igniter or ignition coil for the longer term is risky. I do not think these particular salvage yard parts (the coil and igniter, both well-used) will last long. Of course, you could carry spare salvage yard parts (ignition coil and igniter) and swap them out whenever you are out driving and get a no start. You are expert at swapping these parts out, right?That could be interesting. Years ago I remember carrying an old igniter around in my Honda as a back-up. :)

-- Rav4world[dot]com has a fair number of reports of failed igniters and coils for the Rav4.1 in the last several years. Igniters and coils are reaching the end of their lives.

-- If you want to experiment and do not want to buy both a new igniter and a new coil, I would try just a new igniter. At a minimum I think this promises further excellent education. :)

-- Here is some part info:
Igniter OEM #89621-26010 (replacing 89621-16020) $400 new OEM online. Under $150 aftermarket on eBay and at rockauto.com

Ignition Coil OEM #19500-74120 (hard to find at Toyota OEM online parts stores)
NGK #48582 Try an NGK for about $80 from eBay or $70 or so from rockauto.com. NGK and Denso are the original manufacturers for many Japanese auto manufacturers like Honda and Toyota.

-- Notice that the file 1996Rav4IG.pdf has a troubleshooting chart on page 2. It ends with replacing the igniter. Though I would not rule out the coil yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Wow lots of information - Great!!

I just returned from the trip to where the junk yard was. And was not successful swapping each igniter and coil. No luck.. I bought the used fuse harness, and the 3 connectors, coolant temp, temp gauge and oil pressure.

So, tomorrow will take care of soldering the right connectors however, I'm so dissapointed with the guy who helped me at the junk yard he said if was a mechanic, I responded no, as I supposed to be one to test the parts and buy them.

I didn't want to buy the igniter nor the coil as he was being rude and arrogant he did not like that fact that I came from the states, and was servicing my car and not being a legit mechanic.. he said "..oh you are a guy who swap parts like many americans".., he said. "In costa rica there are real mechanics.. " not part swaper. I think he didn't like the fact that the ohms reading on the coil was really off (cold) I still tested, however, no start. Never going there again..

I also got the VSV solenoid to swap for the bad one, I been wanting to replace, as the code P0401 alerts me for years.. and I saw your first image posted at the beginning of the thread and I noticed was placed above the current location. I wanted to ask you privately if you have a thread where explains how that was done.

As for the hesitation start.. still trying to resolve the issue. Hope does not take me more than a year.. as every time I start I never finish..

Thank you again Kindly Elle_Rav4

Miles


I'm home now..
 

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-- Reports are that the EGR VSV on the 4WD is hard to remove. I think at this point the conventional wisdom is to just unplug its electrical connector and disconnect the two vacuum hoses. Leave the old EGR VSV in place ("RIP -- Rest in Peace" I think one guy commented).

-- I have seen a few different new locations used for the EGR VSV on the Rav4.1 A photo of where I put mine is here: egr vsv relocation .

-- Here are a couple of links I put in my notes as being particularly helpful:

 

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Discussion Starter #39
Hey Elle_Rav4,

Thank you for the info - regarding the VSV.

Going back to my initial issue, could the pulsation damper be a reason for is starting hesitation?

I was given a gift by a YouTube DIY mechanic video guy - he's awesome! But I can't hook the pressure tester because I was not able to unplug the line underneath the car next to the gas tank.. so gave up. Just wondering if I can unscrew the pulsation damper from the rail and test there the fuel pressure. And is there a manual for that particular steps in ruling out is these new part in the menu of possibilities?

I just finished reading the info you provided about igniters. The only thing I see about that not happening in mine is that once the car starts it runs fine! it never stalls.

I can send you an image of that tool,, just have to go downstairs tomorrow to my car and get it. I wish this is the issue -- cause I bought and replaced a new pump. Generic, the connector was not the same.. I had to splice and crimp the cables.. which I should solder now that I have the time.

I can't give up man.. I have to find out what the issue is. it's been over 5 years it's got to end.

Thanks!

Miles
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Good morning members!

Elle_Rav4 here is an image of the fuel pressure testing kit I was telling you about.

How/ where can I get this hooked on to check proper pressure is held and produced the fuel pump, damper and regulator. Is there a manual for this so the proper testing will rule out any fuel components.. including injectors.

I think we're getting somewhere as this video shows:

Best,

Miles.
 

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