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Ok!

We have our vehicle back in our hands.

It has been repaired with this relay fix, and apparently this is the root cause. The dealership did some testing with the old and new relay and found repeatability on the fix. They are on the same page as Toyota Canada that the root cause is addressed.

The relay in question is at the right, rear part of the vehicle along with the 12 volt car battery. I guess the build up of humidity between the rear right wheel well on the inside of the vehicle causes some Frost which builds up around the battery and the relay. I guess the relay contacts are not sealed so the frost that builds up there prevents proper contact.

I don't have part numbers because I did not want to hold the dealership hostage to get the information, but essentially the previous relay was not sealed, where is the new one is.

As for what exactly this relay does, it sounds like it is a main relay that is between the 12 volt battery output and the control system for main power. So without this relay passing 12 volts along to the ECU, the vehicle will never show as ready to drive. good news is my coworker has had this fix for about 3 weeks, through cold weather with no issues noted.

The real question we should all be talking about is whether the component placement on the vehicle and/or the humidity buildup is appropriate for vehicle design. I don't have the answer to these questions as I don't design cars, but I question how appropriate the design is...
My dealer called me yesterday saying they submitted the information to Toyota Canada but they've been told that Toyota is ''working'' on it and are waiting on their answer on how to fix this.

Hope it does not take too long before they tell them to change the relay cause mines has been doing it frequently the pass 2 days.
 

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I called the Timmins dealer and got the part number but it’s $130 at my local dealer. I’ll have to wait until my check engine lights up again and go straight to dealer to start my warranty claim.

Since Toyota are working on an official solution in the US, my dealer probably won’t be able to replace the relay under warranty until Toyota corporate says that is the solution.
Can you post the part? A warranty claim is the least of my concern, I'd like to preemptively replace that part, even if it's at my own expense as my vehicle absolutely must be reliable. (Can't afford to have a situation where the vehicle does not start on a random cold morning.)

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Sent a DM. Didn’t want to post it as online it shows it is for a Yaris. May be interchangeable, who knows.

Can you post the part? A warranty claim is the least of my concern, I'd like to preemptively replace that part, even if it's at my own expense as my vehicle absolutely must be reliable. (Can't afford to have a situation where the vehicle does not start on a random cold morning.)

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Sounds to me like 2019 Hybrid's are affected in this thread, anyone think it's safe to assume 2020 Hybrid's also have this possible issue? I'm in a similar situation as one poster above where our vehicle 'needs' to work versus randomly becoming a lemon one cold day...
 

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Sent a DM. Didn’t want to post it as online it shows it is for a Yaris. May be interchangeable, who knows.
Could you also DM me the part please? My first service repair is coming up in a few weeks, think it would be relatively easy to ask Toyota to check the relay if it may be a potential issue similar to yours, or is really hard to access the relay and needs to be left overnight etc...

My understanding is your repair length was due to them diagnosing the car as they were unsure what they were looking for initially, once they found it they sorted it out once they got the part. I'm hoping to just have them check it quickly to find if I have to do anything with it or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Just to be clear, this fix was rolled out to the dealer from Toyota Canada. Part of why it took so long because the dealership did not know the problem and referred it up to Toyota Canada Engineering.

I think it would be pretty ridiculous if Toyota did not roll out this fix across the board, but then again OEMs do this all the time. Frozen door latches and locking mechanisms on the F-150 is a perfect example of it. They freeze in the cold, but unless it is frozen when you show up at the dealership, they will not replace them. You need to wait until you specifically experience the problem and they see it, in order for it to be a legitimate warranty claim. Even if the probability of it happening is very high, but it hasn't yet happened to you, they often won't perform fixes. This is my first Toyota so I'm not sure if they are more lenient in this regard but I have definitely seen other OEMs do it.

Dielectric grease won't help because relay contacts are always encased within a case of some sort. But if the relay is not specifically designated as hermetically sealed, then humidity etc can still seep in. two relays can look similar side-by-side, but the sealing aspect can be different.

Honestly I did not question the dealership more because with the two kids waiting at daycare I just wanted to get out of there.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Also just a touch on something that was mentioned before, it isn't just a check engine light that comes up. When this relay fails to function, you're not going anywhere. The vehicle is "not ready" to drive. Can't just drive it to the dealership and ask for it to be replaced at this point, needs to be towed.
 

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Also just a touch on something that was mentioned before, it isn't just a check engine light that comes up. When this relay fails to function, you're not going anywhere. The vehicle is "not ready" to drive. Can't just drive it to the dealership and ask for it to be replaced at this point, needs to be towed.
Ah, different to my issue. I get a hybrid system malfunction and my regen brake wont work but i can still drive my rav4 but ICE only. Check engine goes on as well. I normally heat the cabin, turn the key off and turn the key back on after 5 mins and everything works fine and check engine goes away.
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Ah, different to my issue. I get a hybrid system malfunction and my regen brake wont work but i can still drive my rav4 but ICE only. Check engine goes on as well. I normally heat the cabin, turn the key off and turn the key back on after 5 mins and everything works fine and check engine goes away.
Ah ok understood! All of the failures my colleagues and I experienced we're as I described. Not surprising that there are variations.
 

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Hi guys,

first forum post here. I am only posting it because I appear to have been hit by an issue that simultaneously has hit at least 5 other RAV4 hybrids, on the same day, in our area (Northern Ontario, Canada).

Background: We bought our RAV4 Hybrid LE earlier this year (~May), and things have been going good since we got it. No real issues.

Anyway two other guys in my office each also got one right after we got ours (XLE versions I think), and had aftermarket "Auto Start" remote starters installed. I tried to have one installed but due to parts availability it has been delayed, not yet installed.

About 1.5 months ago, coworker #1 had an issue one morning after using the remote start (his wife didn't realize the lights were in Auto), when his wife decided to delay going out that day, the lights stayed on, the 12V battery died, and a pile of warnings came in. I don't have the exact list but among them was Hybrid System Failure, Brake System Fault, that type of thing. Apparently it was lit like a christmas tree. It was not driveable. Whether these symptoms are even linked to my story below, who knows, but this coworker insists the behaviour and warnings were identical. Could be a red herring.

Fast forward to two days ago Monday. I get into the office, and both coworker #1 and #2 come to see me and ask me how my RAV4 hybrid is doing this morning. It was about -20 C (-4F). For reference purposes we'd expect it to get down to at least -40 C (-40 F) this winter, like all winters. Both coworkers had to have their vehicles towed to the dealership after a christmas tree of warnings came in. Their remote start didn't keep the lights on this time, the vehicle just wouldn't move. "Not Ready to Drive" with a pile of warnings. Both of them had driven it that morning, to a store or work or whatever. I hadn't had any issues, my wife made it to work like normal.

That evening my wife goes out grocery shopping. She calls me from the store, tells me the vehicle won't move. Gas engine is on and running, but "Hybrid System Failure", "Not Ready to Drive", and a christmas tree of warnings. She didn't write them down. I called roadside and the tow truck arrived pretty fast, off to the dealership.

So initially thoughts were "the remote start caused this", but, seeing as I don't have one, impossible.

So as I hear from our dealership, there are five RAV4 hybrids at the dealership here in Timmins, Ontario, with the identical problem, one in New Liskeard, Ontario, with the identical problem and apparently also a few more in the USA. In my mind must be cold weather related given the sudden onset.

The dealership has been good so far, Toyota Canada Engineering is involved, they've asked a few questions like driving habit, parking habits, slopped parking, front pointed up, down, etc. Still waiting on an idea or solutions. I don't think this is battery or electrical related, seeming more like maybe fluid in a line that's freezing that shouldn't be, maybe a line is accumulating water from condensation, who knows.

Wanted to post this here, see if anyone has encountered anything of the sort. Seems to be pretty widespread as it all hit on the same day, the coldest of the year.
I purchased a RAV4 Hybrid last July. Never had a problem with it until the first cold day in November, here in North Bay, Ontario. It turned over first thing, but after it was parked for 30 minutes, it was dead. The message read "Hybrid System Malfunction". Like you, I called Toyota Towing, but decided to try one more time before I okayed the company to go ahead. It started (it had also warmed up outside). Took it to the Toyota dealer, where they tested the computer system and said they could find nothing wrong. BTW, I do not have a remote start either. Anyway, it happened again last month when we got a -20C day. Exact same thing. I was actually parked in the exact same parking spot! So I waited a while and again, it started. Back to Toyota. This time they tell me that this is an issue with all of the RAV4 hybrids and that the Toyota engineers are working on the problem. In the next few weeks, Toyota here got permission to put me into a Hertz vehicle until they found the problem. I was to pick up the vehicle today, but low and behold, they had the part that would fix the problem - a relay switch. So I am waiting for the first cold day (probably tomorrow morning) and will try the vehicle to see if there's a problem. I really hope not. Hope you've also received your fix!
 

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Yes, received the fix, all good so far, 5 days later.
Well that gives me hope. I can't believe they let the cars go out without testing them in really cold weather. And I also wondered about why they hadn't been tested in Timmins! They would definitely have found out then.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
The fix was a replacement relay yes. They don't give the customer any paperwork until the warranty is processed, so I'm still waiting for it in the mail to know exact scope and part numbers.

I'm starting to wonder if there is a humidity or moisture problem in this vehicle.
 

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The fix was a replacement relay yes. They don't give the customer any paperwork until the warranty is processed, so I'm still waiting for it in the mail to know exact scope and part numbers.

I'm starting to wonder if there is a humidity or moisture problem in this vehicle.
Def is. Wait for a cold day and look at your spare area, it's covered with mist freeze.
 

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My front windshield took forever to deice this morning. So much frost on the inside. Another big temperature swing in Ottawa. At least no hybrid malfunction error this morning. I have been using the AC to reduce the moisture in the cabin. I unfortunately didn’t drive it yesterday. You still get heat when you turn on the AC, so hopefully it helps until they have a TSB for this problem.
Def is. Wait for a cold day and look at your spare area, it's covered with mist freeze.
 

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My front windshield took forever to deice this morning. So much frost on the inside. Another big temperature swing in Ottawa. At least no hybrid malfunction error this morning. I have been using the AC to reduce the moisture in the cabin. I unfortunately didn’t drive it yesterday. You still get heat when you turn on the AC, so hopefully it helps until they have a TSB for this problem.
Same here, I am in Ottawa as well. All back windows were frozen from the inside and my windshield was half frozen. I drove mine yesterday. At least like you said, no hybrid malfunction.

Never had a car with this many freezing problem. Same with my windows rolling down. everything it's freezing, I have to insert a card to break the ice between the windows and the seal or else I can't roll them down.

Also have ice or snow build-up where the roof and hatch meet. There is a crack and the snow or ice build up there and I can't fully open the hatch. I have to clear it up before. Annoying lol.
 

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Ditto on the hatch and windows. I will need to be more vigilant on cleaning those areas.
Same here, I am in Ottawa as well. All back windows were frozen from the inside and my windshield was half frozen. I drove mine yesterday. At least like you said, no hybrid malfunction.

Never had a car with this many freezing problem. Same with my windows rolling down. everything it's freezing, I have to insert a card to break the ice between the windows and the seal or else I can't roll them down.

Also have ice or snow build-up where the roof and hatch meet. There is a crack and the snow or ice build up there and I can't fully open the hatch. I have to clear it up before. Annoying lol.
 

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Hi guys,

first forum post here. I am only posting it because I appear to have been hit by an issue that simultaneously has hit at least 5 other RAV4 hybrids, on the same day, in our area (Northern Ontario, Canada).

Background: We bought our RAV4 Hybrid LE earlier this year (~May), and things have been going good since we got it. No real issues.

Anyway two other guys in my office each also got one right after we got ours (XLE versions I think), and had aftermarket "Auto Start" remote starters installed. I tried to have one installed but due to parts availability it has been delayed, not yet installed.

About 1.5 months ago, coworker #1 had an issue one morning after using the remote start (his wife didn't realize the lights were in Auto), when his wife decided to delay going out that day, the lights stayed on, the 12V battery died, and a pile of warnings came in. I don't have the exact list but among them was Hybrid System Failure, Brake System Fault, that type of thing. Apparently it was lit like a christmas tree. It was not driveable. Whether these symptoms are even linked to my story below, who knows, but this coworker insists the behaviour and warnings were identical. Could be a red herring.

Fast forward to two days ago Monday. I get into the office, and both coworker #1 and #2 come to see me and ask me how my RAV4 hybrid is doing this morning. It was about -20 C (-4F). For reference purposes we'd expect it to get down to at least -40 C (-40 F) this winter, like all winters. Both coworkers had to have their vehicles towed to the dealership after a christmas tree of warnings came in. Their remote start didn't keep the lights on this time, the vehicle just wouldn't move. "Not Ready to Drive" with a pile of warnings. Both of them had driven it that morning, to a store or work or whatever. I hadn't had any issues, my wife made it to work like normal.

That evening my wife goes out grocery shopping. She calls me from the store, tells me the vehicle won't move. Gas engine is on and running, but "Hybrid System Failure", "Not Ready to Drive", and a christmas tree of warnings. She didn't write them down. I called roadside and the tow truck arrived pretty fast, off to the dealership.

So initially thoughts were "the remote start caused this", but, seeing as I don't have one, impossible.

So as I hear from our dealership, there are five RAV4 hybrids at the dealership here in Timmins, Ontario, with the identical problem, one in New Liskeard, Ontario, with the identical problem and apparently also a few more in the USA. In my mind must be cold weather related given the sudden onset.

The dealership has been good so far, Toyota Canada Engineering is involved, they've asked a few questions like driving habit, parking habits, slopped parking, front pointed up, down, etc. Still waiting on an idea or solutions. I don't think this is battery or electrical related, seeming more like maybe fluid in a line that's freezing that shouldn't be, maybe a line is accumulating water from condensation, who knows.

Wanted to post this here, see if anyone has encountered anything of the sort. Seems to be pretty widespread as it all hit on the same day, the coldest of the year.
Hi guys,

first forum post here. I am only posting it because I appear to have been hit by an issue that simultaneously has hit at least 5 other RAV4 hybrids, on the same day, in our area (Northern Ontario, Canada).

Background: We bought our RAV4 Hybrid LE earlier this year (~May), and things have been going good since we got it. No real issues.

Anyway two other guys in my office each also got one right after we got ours (XLE versions I think), and had aftermarket "Auto Start" remote starters installed. I tried to have one installed but due to parts availability it has been delayed, not yet installed.

About 1.5 months ago, coworker #1 had an issue one morning after using the remote start (his wife didn't realize the lights were in Auto), when his wife decided to delay going out that day, the lights stayed on, the 12V battery died, and a pile of warnings came in. I don't have the exact list but among them was Hybrid System Failure, Brake System Fault, that type of thing. Apparently it was lit like a christmas tree. It was not driveable. Whether these symptoms are even linked to my story below, who knows, but this coworker insists the behaviour and warnings were identical. Could be a red herring.

Fast forward to two days ago Monday. I get into the office, and both coworker #1 and #2 come to see me and ask me how my RAV4 hybrid is doing this morning. It was about -20 C (-4F). For reference purposes we'd expect it to get down to at least -40 C (-40 F) this winter, like all winters. Both coworkers had to have their vehicles towed to the dealership after a christmas tree of warnings came in. Their remote start didn't keep the lights on this time, the vehicle just wouldn't move. "Not Ready to Drive" with a pile of warnings. Both of them had driven it that morning, to a store or work or whatever. I hadn't had any issues, my wife made it to work like normal.

That evening my wife goes out grocery shopping. She calls me from the store, tells me the vehicle won't move. Gas engine is on and running, but "Hybrid System Failure", "Not Ready to Drive", and a christmas tree of warnings. She didn't write them down. I called roadside and the tow truck arrived pretty fast, off to the dealership.

So initially thoughts were "the remote start caused this", but, seeing as I don't have one, impossible.

So as I hear from our dealership, there are five RAV4 hybrids at the dealership here in Timmins, Ontario, with the identical problem, one in New Liskeard, Ontario, with the identical problem and apparently also a few more in the USA. In my mind must be cold weather related given the sudden onset.

The dealership has been good so far, Toyota Canada Engineering is involved, they've asked a few questions like driving habit, parking habits, slopped parking, front pointed up, down, etc. Still waiting on an idea or solutions. I don't think this is battery or electrical related, seeming more like maybe fluid in a line that's freezing that shouldn't be, maybe a line is accumulating water from condensation, who knows.

Wanted to post this here, see if anyone has encountered anything of the sort. Seems to be pretty widespread as it all hit on the same day, the coldest of the year.
Hi guys, just joined a few days ago and found this thread, you guys are amazing!!! Thanks Luc for the posts, I put a preorder deposit on a Prime, and after going through all the posts, kinda wondering if I should bail. Time will tell I guess. I've been jotting down the deficiencies all you have encountered, fueling, relays, interior moisture, etc. Just a great, informative forum!!!. Here on Van Island we don't get the extreme low temps as some of you, (we just had a 2 foot dump of snow), right now its -2C. Cheers from downtown Shawnigan Lake.
 
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