Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

CrossClimate 2s (and AWD-I) - brief review

5.9K views 3 replies 4 participants last post by  buggeroff6969  
#1 · (Edited)
Image

Image


I bought some Cross Climate 2 tires in mid-October to replace my worn Yokohoma Avid Envigors. The Yokohamas had 70k miles on them and still were not at their wear bars, but were getting pretty close... and with the rain and intended travel to the snow coming I decided not to let my budget override safety.

So far, I've put 3600 miles on the Cross Climate 2s and I have to say I really like them!!! I've had a chance to run them through heavy rain and also some snow. I realize there may be some other reviews of these tires already, but I haven't really had a chance to dig through the forum lately. Regardless, hopefully someone will find value in a few of my personal observations...

Tire noise is better than my Yokohamas - however the caveat here is that it's not really fair to compare the old tires to the new ones directly. And I don't know what the Yokohamas were like when new at this point. However, one concern I had with the tread pattern and open blocks on the side walls was that it would produce more noise from the larger volume of air moving out of the tire to the side. My concerns were unwarranted. Tire noise is not an issue!

The Yokohamas were V-rated (I don't really know why... except that I bought my RAV4 used from an Audi dealership and they put new tires on it when they sold it... so I'm guessing it's just what they had in the right size lying around). The Michelins are obviously H-rated and they feel softer when driving. The Yokohamas (even worn) felt more directionally stable in a straight line and this may be partly due to the fact that the Michelins have no center rib in the tread pattern. I have no way to compare the absolute grip of one against the other, but I'm not exactly auto-crossing the RAV4. Regardless, the Michelins are by no means unstable. In everyday driving, the lateral grip of the Michelins is certainly competent and I have not noticed any real difference in normal maneuvers involving lateral loads (freeway clovers, fast sweeping curves on the freeways, or tight turns in the hills). The vehicle turns and changes direction confidently. I will say the perceived softness of the Michelins does seem to translate to a more compliant and comfortable ride on harsh surfaces (which I view as a positive trait - again, I'm not auto-crossing this car).

Fuel economy seems to be no different either. I don't have an apples to apples comparison, but in my run from the SF Bay Area to Tahoe and back and then on a run down to the Grand Canyon / Phoenix and back, I took routes that I have data from in the past. Weather, wind, and other factors are definitely at play, so my data cannot be compared directly. However, in looking at my past average MPGs from those trips against the runs I just made on the new tires, the new mileage is absolutely within the expected range from my old trips. (Another concern of mine was that MPG might suffer with this tire...) It seems likely that any differences between this tire and my last one are not going to be big enough to discern from the general "noise" of everyday factors like temperature, traffic, etc.

I absolutely believe in the "all-weather" capability as compared to the traditional "all-season (3-season)" tires from years past. Wet performance is excellent and the tire design really does a good job of moving water out from under it despite the tire being "severe snow service" rated. (As I understood the issue in years past, dedicated traditional winter tires had a trade-off in wet performance because of their design.) We had an atmospheric river come through in October just after I got the tires installed. No issues whatsoever and the tires felt authoritative in deep puddles.

I also got to test the tires out in the snow. I was able to take them up through Tahoe about a week and a half ago when it was snowing in the mountains. No problems there, but I didn't feel like it was a terribly great test because mostly the roads were pretty well plowed during the time I drove on them, so it was really more just wet pavement and some slush.

However, I then got a chance to really try them out in actual snow at the Grand Canyon a couple of days ago. Some of the roads were "plowed" but you can see in the pictures there was still enough of a layer on the ground for the car to negotiate and there was some ice under the layer of snow. There are certainly slopes in the park, but I wouldn't say there are any really big grades that would constitute a "hill". My previous all-seasons absolutely would have been useless even on the gentle slopes around the park and marginal on the rest of it. The Cross Climate 2s performed really well especially in the slightly deeper snow. Ice performance wasn't bad, but wasn't great - then again I don't really expect any tires to perform all that well on ice directly except for studded ones.

As you can see in the photos, the tire channels really pack snow into them and hold it which provided a very comfortable amount of grip (hence why they seemed to work better with a bit more of a snow layer, I think). In most circumstances I had no wheelspin whatsoever. The times that I did have some wheelspin was going up some of the sloped streets and even then it was because I was intentionally giving it a bit of extra gas (just for kicks). Which brings me to the other observation I had...

The AWD-i system really does a nice job in low traction situations. I was never able to kick the rear tires loose even under harder throttle (to be fair I never floored it or anything since I was in a crowded National Park with other cars, pedestrians, and obstacles around - not to mention the canyon itself). But I think the rear tires also had weight on them when pointing up hill or under acceleration which, combined with the relatively small size of the rear motor, were able to make good use of the available tire traction.

As a side note with respect to AWD-i, while monitoring the MGR torque (using a ScanGauge II), the car definitely diverted more torque to the rear after losing traction to the front and continued to consistently do so for the duration of that drive. I'm guessing the computer correctly figured out it was snowy given the outside temperatures, wiper use, and traction activity...

All in all, I'm very pleased with the Cross Climate 2s and I continue to be happy with the AWD-i system!
 
#2 ·
Thanks for the comprehensive write-up.

I put CC2 tires on my Subaru last February. Given the classification of All Weather I was a little leary of road noise as well but these tires are surprisingly quiet. Handling on dry and wet pavement very good.

I plan to put on the RAV4 next time tires are bought.
 
#4 ·
View attachment 175680
View attachment 175681

I bought some Cross Climate 2 tires in mid-October to replace my worn Yokohoma Avid Envigors. The Yokohamas had 70k miles on them and still were not at their wear bars, but were getting pretty close... and with the rain and intended travel to the snow coming I decided not to let my budget override safety.

So far, I've put 3600 miles on the Cross Climate 2s and I have to say I really like them!!! I've had a chance to run them through heavy rain and also some snow. I realize there may be some other reviews of these tires already, but I haven't really had a chance to dig through the forum lately. Regardless, hopefully someone will find value in a few of my personal observations...

Tire noise is better than my Yokohamas - however the caveat here is that it's not really fair to compare the old tires to the new ones directly. And I don't know what the Yokohamas were like when new at this point. However, one concern I had with the tread pattern and open blocks on the side walls was that it would produce more noise from the larger volume of air moving out of the tire to the side. My concerns were unwarranted. Tire noise is not an issue!

The Yokohamas were V-rated (I don't really know why... except that I bought my RAV4 used from an Audi dealership and they put new tires on it when they sold it... so I'm guessing it's just what they had in the right size lying around). The Michelins are obviously H-rated and they feel softer when driving. The Yokohamas (even worn) felt more directionally stable in a straight line and this may be partly due to the fact that the Michelins have no center rib in the tread pattern. I have no way to compare the absolute grip of one against the other, but I'm not exactly auto-crossing the RAV4. Regardless, the Michelins are by no means unstable. In everyday driving, the lateral grip of the Michelins is certainly competent and I have not noticed any real difference in normal maneuvers involving lateral loads (freeway clovers, fast sweeping curves on the freeways, or tight turns in the hills). The vehicle turns and changes direction confidently. I will say the perceived softness of the Michelins does seem to translate to a more compliant and comfortable ride on harsh surfaces (which I view as a positive trait - again, I'm not auto-crossing this car).

Fuel economy seems to be no different either. I don't have an apples to apples comparison, but in my run from the SF Bay Area to Tahoe and back and then on a run down to the Grand Canyon / Phoenix and back, I took routes that I have data from in the past. Weather, wind, and other factors are definitely at play, so my data cannot be compared directly. However, in looking at my past average MPGs from those trips against the runs I just made on the new tires, the new mileage is absolutely within the expected range from my old trips. (Another concern of mine was that MPG might suffer with this tire...) It seems likely that any differences between this tire and my last one are not going to be big enough to discern from the general "noise" of everyday factors like temperature, traffic, etc.

I absolutely believe in the "all-weather" capability as compared to the traditional "all-season (3-season)" tires from years past. Wet performance is excellent and the tire design really does a good job of moving water out from under it despite the tire being "severe snow service" rated. (As I understood the issue in years past, dedicated traditional winter tires had a trade-off in wet performance because of their design.) We had an atmospheric river come through in October just after I got the tires installed. No issues whatsoever and the tires felt authoritative in deep puddles.

I also got to test the tires out in the snow. I was able to take them up through Tahoe about a week and a half ago when it was snowing in the mountains. No problems there, but I didn't feel like it was a terribly great test because mostly the roads were pretty well plowed during the time I drove on them, so it was really more just wet pavement and some slush.

However, I then got a chance to really try them out in actual snow at the Grand Canyon a couple of days ago. Some of the roads were "plowed" but you can see in the pictures there was still enough of a layer on the ground for the car to negotiate and there was some ice under the layer of snow. There are certainly slopes in the park, but I wouldn't say there are any really big grades that would constitute a "hill". My previous all-seasons absolutely would have been useless even on the gentle slopes around the park and marginal on the rest of it. The Cross Climate 2s performed really well especially in the slightly deeper snow. Ice performance wasn't bad, but wasn't great - then again I don't really expect any tires to perform all that well on ice directly except for studded ones.

As you can see in the photos, the tire channels really pack snow into them and hold it which provided a very comfortable amount of grip (hence why they seemed to work better with a bit more of a snow layer, I think). In most circumstances I had no wheelspin whatsoever. The times that I did have some wheelspin was going up some of the sloped streets and even then it was because I was intentionally giving it a bit of extra gas (just for kicks). Which brings me to the other observation I had...

The AWD-i system really does a nice job in low traction situations. I was never able to kick the rear tires loose even under harder throttle (to be fair I never floored it or anything since I was in a crowded National Park with other cars, pedestrians, and obstacles around - not to mention the canyon itself). But I think the rear tires also had weight on them when pointing up hill or under acceleration which, combined with the relatively small size of the rear motor, were able to make good use of the available tire traction.

As a side note with respect to AWD-i, while monitoring the MGR torque (using a ScanGauge II), the car definitely diverted more torque to the rear after losing traction to the front and continued to consistently do so for the duration of that drive. I'm guessing the computer correctly figured out it was snowy given the outside temperatures, wiper use, and traction activity...

All in all, I'm very pleased with the Cross Climate 2s and I continue to be happy with the AWD-i system!
Ok, I have never posted here (but have had the same tires on a 2014 Subaru, and loved them). They do seem quieter, and as Consumer Reports commetned, they had no negatives in test results.
Just the same, I see no negatives about these tires, other than the postulation the lack of a thin black middle line and open tread. Even then, you don't find ANYTHING negative.
Just remember the cross climate was designed for european drivers, who apparently don't believe in the "all-season" marketing trick we have here. In other words, this is a compromise tire for performance with at least 3 season use-but not intended to be "better" in any way, than full service snow tire changeovers for winter.
At least that's what I read when they came out (were initially only distributed by Tire Rack in US).
BTW, waiting for a 22 Rav4 Hybrid in pinpoint/weather/comfort package to come into a dealer in MA/N.E. We have absolutely no idea of the lead time (March? June?). Is there anyone who can explain how allocation of RAV4's are decided, statewide or by big sleaze v.s little Toyo dealers in my area? It seems to be greed time with "dealer markup' well above list (especially for Prime, which my wife doesn't want to shell out for)!!