[Michael503]

michael, nice work and thanks for posting! just out of curiosity,

did you lose any bass or richness with your new speakers?

Nope, gained it. The stock speakers are muddy at best.

is that the original toyota tweeter crossover (the white one)?

There is no crossover, stock. There is an electrolytic capacitor built into the stock tweeter. That white block is a 4 pin electrical connector, that's all. Power comes in and goes out to the woofer. Its big (relatively) because it is a 4 pin connector. It is Toyota's version of a Y connector in the harness. I just used it so I wouldn't have to cut up my harness.

you didn't wire that in with your new tweeter and crossover did you?

Yes, its just a connector.

 

[Michael503]

Maybe this thread should be a sticky!

 

[Deanjet]

+1 :thumbs_up:

Maybe this thread should be a sticky!

 

[doane2u]

Cococola: If you're still around, thanks for the excellent photos and instructions.
Michael, thanks for your input and additional information as well.

I've decided to give this a go as I'm not even sure the local car audio shops would be able to do this type of job. Two car audio shops and Best Buy have quoted me $105 to switch out the two front door speakers. After seeing all the work involved, I'm wondering how good a job I would get from them.

I ordered Focal 165A1 speakers that have 6.5" main speakers and separate tweeters with a crossover. The choice was between JL C2-650's and Alpine SPR-60C's. I chose the Focal because I have heard them before and they sound great, but also because they have the highest SPL sensitivity at 92db and this will help with the low power out from the stock head unit which I don't plan to replace for some time.

I checked out the link to Car-Speaker-Adapters dot com, the company that makes the adapter plates and they only list plates going up to 2008. They have a good set of photos here, but they are for a 1996 and they don't show the tweeter install. I just talked to the owner and he is going to check out the two threads on this site.. the other one is here.

I also can't find anything on Ebay that handles the adapters newer then 2008, like the Scosche adapters which only list 2000-2005... Will these plates work in my 2010 RAV4 Sport?

Michael503: I'm wondering how the tweeter fits on the panel? As you showed, replacing the factory tweeter with the new one using the existing bracket doesn't look that hard, but how does it look on the door installed.. how does the grill fit to the panel opening?

My 2010 RAV4 Sport tweeter grill is 3" in diameter and fits a recesses in the door panel sitting flush to the surface. Will the new tweeter grill fit this, or will the existing grill cover the new tweeter, or what? Same situation with the lower speaker.. it has a grill that is 7-3/4" in diameter and it too is flush to the surface of the panel.. will the new speaker use this grill or will the new speaker grill be the same diameter and fit the 7-3/4" panel hole?

Any help appreciated.

 

[doane2u]

Here are some pic of my door speakers. The upper tweeter grill is 3" in diameter and the lower speaker grill is 7-3/4" in diameter.

 

[doane2u]

I got my Focal 165 A1 Access speakers yesterday and checked them out this morning.. the 6.5" speaker grills are about 7.5" diameter, so they can't replace the stock 7.75" grills and the tweeters are only about 2" in diameter, so they too will not replace the stock 3" diameter grills. Looks like I will be mounting them behind the stock grills. I am now waiting for the 6.5" adapter rings from car-speaker-adapters.com. The owner, Michael, answered me quickly and said that they will work up to 2012 models. Will then see if everything is going to fit behind the panel grills.

 

[doane2u]

Another approach..

Thought I would share my installation based on what I learned here and then applying a different approach and method to get what I wanted. I bought the Focal 165A1 set I mentioned earlier along with the PVC 1/4" adapter rings from Car-Speaker-Adapters.com When I got the panels off I discovered the 1/4" adapter will work, but aren't thick enough to isolate the speaker. Speakers need to have the front isolated from the back and the factory design did that nicely with a foam ring on the speaker pressing up against the speaker grill door panel ring. See the next two pics:

The following pix show the 1/4" adapter ring I bought and the 1/2" duplicate I made from plywood. You may notice that it is the same shape as the piece that attaches to the door... there is no reason to make it just a ring like some of adapters shown in earlier posts by others as it will fit fine behind the panel with no problems.

I was going to follow the earlier method used by Michael503 and mount the Focal tweeter behind the existing grill and attached to the door bracket, but then I decided to mount it in the existing grill itself. Because it is smaller in diameter and left an air gap around it through the existing grill I made a foam baffle ring which seals it off and hold it in place, see below:

The following shows the finished 6.5" speaker mounting

The following shows the wiring and crossover mounting. I left the tweeter bracket in place as it also helps support the door panel. I mounted the Focal crossover unit just below it using two sheet metal screws after drilling two holes into the door metal. The four wires that were attached to the old tweeter connector were removed and attached to the crossover.. the neg and pos input and the output attached to the mid out on the crossover. These existing mid wires were dropped down into the door with a small hole in the plastic to be joined to the new lower speaker. When the panel was installed the wires from the new tweeter were attached to the tweeter out of the crossover.

Here are the final shots showing the mid range mounting and installed project completed.

This took a lot of time as I had to figure out how to do it this way, but I'm happy with the results and it sounds great. The existing stock radio/amp is having no problems handling these speakers which are very efficient rated at 92db at 4 ohms.

Hope this information will help some others considering similar installs.

Cheers.

 

[dquangt]

nice job on the install. the tweeters look kinda funny to me, but hey if you like it and it sounds good then that's all that matters. i did a full install of front, rear, sub, amp, and headunit a couple months back. i didn't add foam around the speakers at the time like you did, but the sound is amazing so i don't think i'll take the doors apart again just for that like i originally planned.

 

[doane2u]

nice job on the install. the tweeters look kinda funny to me, but hey if you like it and it sounds good then that's all that matters. i did a full install of front, rear, sub, amp, and headunit a couple months back. i didn't add foam around the speakers at the time like you did, but the sound is amazing so i don't think i'll take the doors apart again just for that like i originally planned.

The tweeters look "funny?" If it were a factory install you would probably think it looks cool. I saw tweeter grills like this on a very expensive sports car a few years back at the Concours show.. I really like the looks of it, oh well. :shrug:

 

[benmills]

doane2u, great stuff. I bought the same adapters online, but I haven't started the project yet, so it's great to see how you can build up the adapter and add a foam ring to press against the factory grill. I have a couple of questions for you:

1. What did you use for the water shield and how did you attach it?
2. What did you use for the foam ring?
3. Did you consider the tweeter adapters from http://car-speaker-adapters.com? I bought them and I'm wondering if they are going to be useful.
4. Did you have any concern at all about the depth of the speaker interfering with the windows?

Cheers,
Ben

 

[Turbo5upra]

4: the doors will clear a pretty deep motor.

doane- did you consider blocking off the rest of the door and deadning?

 

[doane2u]

doane2u, great stuff. I bought the same adapters online, but I haven't started the project yet, so it's great to see how you can build up the adapter and add a foam ring to press against the factory grill. I have a couple of questions for you:

1. What did you use for the water shield and how did you attach it?
2. What did you use for the foam ring?
3. Did you consider the tweeter adapters from http://car-speaker-adapters.com? I bought them and I'm wondering if they are going to be useful.
4. Did you have any concern at all about the depth of the speaker interfering with the windows?

Cheers,
Ben

Thanks, Ben.

1. I used exterior grade double sided tape to attach the shields which are notebook divider sheets that I cut strips out of 11" long. They are some sort of archival plastic about the weight of greeting card stock.
2. The foam rings are 1/4" door weather strips. Once you remove the liner on the sticky side they bend around the speaker curve quite nicely.
3. I saw those but I decided I wanted to have them mounted as shown, I just thought it would be neat and I like the looks of the Focal tweeters which use a cone design. I also believe the stock tweeter brackets are still needed to add support to the door panel, whether you mount the tweeters to them or in the panel grill like I did, so I'm not sure about those other SAK009 tweeter adapters. It looks like they don't use that stock bracket and would place the tweeters further back from the grill introducing another air leak to the speaker box (the door chamber) through the uncoupled tweeter grill opening.
4. Not a problem at all, especially after you fur them out 3/4" like I did with the 1/4" adapter plus the 1/2" ply. They would have worked if I had only used the 1/4" adapter too... I checked by putting the window down first and measuring how much depth I had. But, like any speaker design that's done right, you need the isolation from the front of the speaker to the back or you get all sorts of weird distortion, muddy base, etc.

On the stock setup the distance from the door metal surface to the contact edge of the door panel grill isolation ring is what you have to work with and I measured it using the stock speaker with its felt ring. From the back of the stock speaker adapter unit to the speaker face is 1-1/8" and the felt ring adds another 1/4" for a total of 1-3/8"

My install uses the 1/4" PVC adapter, a 1/2" piece of plywood identical to the adapter for a total of 3/4" The Focal speaker ring with gasket adds another 1/8" and the speaker itself adds 1/4" plus the 1/4" foam strip. I end up with the same depth dimensions as the stock setup so I know that the speaker will seal properly against the grill isolation ring and prevent standing waves.

Incidentally, that company also sells a 7/8" version of the PVC adapter, 1/8" thicker then what I came up with, but it would probably work fine and save the work I did. Problem was I had already bought the 1/4" version before I disassembled the door and figured out how it was all going to have to work.

best of luck with your project and let us all know how it comes out.

 

[doane2u]

4: the doors will clear a pretty deep motor.

doane- did you consider blocking off the rest of the door and deadning?

I did use the NVX deadening panels directly behind the speaker where most of the back waves hit but I didn't try to box off the door cavity area in any way.
I was surprised that these speakers play as well as they do with the stock radio which is probably only about 5-10 watts?... it's a credit to how efficient these Focals really are, but I will have to be careful about turning the volume up too high as amp clipping will fry just about any speaker. Tomorrow really tempts me with a bunch of Labor day sales, so I might go out and look at a decent replacement radio that has at least 20 watts RMS out.

For an inexpensive (if I ignore the many hours I spent on it) speaker replacement I'm really happy with these.

 

[dquangt]

nice job on the install. the tweeters look kinda funny to me, but hey if you like it and it sounds good then that's all that matters. i did a full install of front, rear, sub, amp, and headunit a couple months back. i didn't add foam around the speakers at the time like you did, but the sound is amazing so i don't think i'll take the doors apart again just for that like i originally planned.

The tweeters look "funny?" If it were a factory install you would probably think it looks cool. I saw tweeter grills like this on a very expensive sports car a few years back at the Concours show.. I really like the looks of it, oh well. :shrug:

geez, defensive much? the first thing i did was compliment your install job. then i said it looks funny to me. yes, to me. its just my taste, you don't have to justify your work by saying expensive cars use that look too. as i said, you did a nice job on the install.

 

[doane2u]

No, not that defensive, just didn't like your choice of words. "looks kinda funny to me, but..." why even comment like that?
Let's drop it, OK?

 

[Turbo5upra]

I did use the NVX deadening panels directly behind the speaker where most of the back waves hit but I didn't try to box off the door cavity area in any way.
I was surprised that these speakers play as well as they do with the stock radio which is probably only about 5-10 watts?... it's a credit to how efficient these Focals really are, but I will have to be careful about turning the volume up too high as amp clipping will fry just about any speaker. Tomorrow really tempts me with a bunch of Labor day sales, so I might go out and look at a decent replacement radio that has at least 20 watts RMS out.

For an inexpensive (if I ignore the many hours I spent on it) speaker replacement I'm really happy with these.

Clipping the factory hu shouldn't take out those speakers... Think about how much abuse the factory speakers will take... The coils should be much larger on the focals- I'm not saying it can't happen but I imagine you Would turn it down with a the wave squared off that much.

 

[Turbo5upra]

geez, defensive much? the first thing i did was compliment your install job. then i said it looks funny to me. yes, to me. its just my taste, you don't have to justify your work by saying expensive cars use that look too. as i said, you did a nice job on the install.

I think you missed a few compliments before the negative... I thought the golden rule was 7 positives before a negative?


1 focal- nice...
2 nice abs baffles
3 nice job on the mdf- router or jig saw?
4 you dampened the back wave
5 the rain shield is pretty sweet

Damn it- having a hard time getting two more

 

[benmills]

Thanks, Ben.
Incidentally, that company also sells a 7/8" version of the PVC adapter, 1/8" thicker then what I came up with, but it would probably work fine and save the work I did. Problem was I had already bought the 1/4" version before I disassembled the door and figured out how it was all going to have to work.

Yeah, I checked the adapters I have and they are the 7/8" ones. The way they are built, I can remove one piece and just use the 1/4" piece, so it's nice to know I have the flexibility to use the adapters as is and build them up like you did.

I was planning on buying the Alpine SPS-610C's, but now you have me interested in the Focals. Out of interest, do you find the aluminum tweeters harsh in any way? I had read that the silk tweeters can be easier on the ears, but plenty if people seem to love aluminum tweeters.

If you're looking for a head unit, I'd highly recommend the Alpine CDE-133BT. I replaced the stock unit with the Alpine and the sound is much better even with the stock speakers. I can't imagine how good it will be with good speakers. I like that you have the option to add a power pack to the Alpine units to get extra power without a full amp install.

 

[doane2u]

Turbo5upra: I hope you're right about the power problem, would hate to have to replace those tweeters after all the work. I usually don't turn the volume up excessively, so it should be OK till I get a better power source.

Ben: That's interesting, the 7/8" one is two pieces? That's sort of what I ended up with. It should work fine unless your speaker rings are really think. When you put them together use a good quality bathtub caulk or some other weather proof glue to eliminate any vibrations. I caulked the ply piece to the PVC piece and the PVC piece to the door when I put mine together.

I have my Focal crossover set at -3db and it sounds pretty nice to me, but my hearing at the high end isn't as good as it was when I was much younger. You have the option of setting it at 0db or -6db as well. The tweeter sound from these is quite nice for a fairly inexpensive speaker. I can't really compare them to your other one as I've never heard the silk ones.

Thanks for the Alpine suggestion, it has really good FM sensitivity too. I'll write it down and look for it when I go out today. I wish these would come with a built in steering wheel setup, you have to spend an extra $50-60 on that.. at least some of them, like this one, have the Bluetooth built in. Would I be able to use my existing Toy Bluetooth stup with it's already installed mic and dash buttons?

One suggestion you all probably know.. really keep track of your speaker phasing for both drivers and left to right, it can get confusing as Toy uses weird color codes. Main point being to keep positive and negative wires all the same so your speaker motors are all moving in the same direction at once.

Thanks everyone. :thumbs_up:

 

[Turbo5upra]

Iirc I run the driver side mid ou of phase and the tweeters out of phase- seemed to give me the furthest listening position... Aluminum and silk both have pros... After jamming out in my daily at 115+ db yesterday for an hour or so I acuttally have new respect for the hertz space tweeter... The German maestros in the old ladies rav are aluminum and they do snares and cymbals wonderfully.