[bamarav4]

2015 rav4 xle

When I drive in normal mode only, not sport or eco I experience the following.

Under light acceration all gears shift normally but when going into 5th gear Between 35 to 40 mph, the shift into 5th causes my rpm to drop then immediately after the rpm raises. I can repeatly cause this to happen at anytime I wish. This happens on flat road with no incline. I can even cause this to occur with a slight decline in the road. This occurs with me having a light amount of pressure on the foot pedel.

6 months old, 2800 miles on rav4, this has happened since ive bought it but is irritating the more I drive in normal mode.

below are 3 videos, 2 show the problem , 1 doesnt't(my guess is I was pressing the pedel harder on 4 video)


https://www.dropbox.com/s/09re55sr7c76oyi/762.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mlahmujkyiap7w/763.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4w6b4kr8uldvsc/764.mp4?dl=0

 

[RobertN]

Most if not all cars these days cut back the throttle during shifts to make the shift smoother? They also play around with the lock up clutch during shifts for the same purpose. Under the right conditions the throttle cutback can be heard when near a road as cars are driving away. The exhaust note goes away momentarily during each shift. Some of this gets reflected back into tachometer movement.

 

[pico]

Most if not all cars these days cut back the throttle during shifts to make the shift smoother? They also play around with the lock up clutch during shifts for the same purpose. Under the right conditions the throttle cutback can be heard when near a road as cars are driving away. The exhaust note goes away momentarily during each shift. Some of this gets reflected back into tachometer movement.

That is, IMHO just nonsense.
Prove me wrong.
.

 

[RTexasF]

Most if not all cars these days cut back the throttle during shifts to make the shift smoother? They also play around with the lock up clutch during shifts for the same purpose. Under the right conditions the throttle cutback can be heard when near a road as cars are driving away. The exhaust note goes away momentarily during each shift. Some of this gets reflected back into tachometer movement.

WHAT?????????????? Best jibberish I've heard in a while........sounds like a politician.

 

[katekebo]

2015 rav4 xle

When I drive in normal mode only, not sport or eco I experience the following.

Under light acceration all gears shift normally but when going into 5th gear Between 35 to 40 mph, the shift into 5th causes my rpm to drop then immediately after the rpm raises. I can repeatly cause this to happen at anytime I wish. this can happen on flat road or any road condition. this occurs with me having the same amount of pressure on the foot pedel.

6 months old, 2600 miles on rav4, this has happened since ive bought it but is irritating the more I drive in normal mode.

below are 4 videos, 3 show the problem , 1 doesnt't(my guess is I was pressing the pedel harder on 4 video)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/viekn93egfd5ydt/759.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09re55sr7c76oyi/762.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mlahmujkyiap7w/763.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4w6b4kr8uldvsc/764.mp4?dl=0

This is "normal" (albeit not "right") with the RAV. It tends to overshoot gears, only to decide to downshift half a second later.

This is basically poor calibration of shift points coordination with speed and throttle position. Whoever calibrated the shift points of the RAV really didn't do his/her homework. Camry and Venza have exactly the same transmission but don't display this "quirks", except when accelerating gently on an upward incline. RAV does it on flat road, too, so it's much more noticeable.

This is not the only "weirdness" of RAV's transmission. Another thing you will probably quickly notice is that it tends to "forget" that it has a 6th gear. If you drive with the cruise control set around 75 mph and you hit a very slight incline, the transmission will downshift to 5th gear, and stay there forever, even after the road get perfectly flat again. The transmission will "forget" it has a 6th gear, and keep the engine rev'ed, with the consequent negative of increased fuel consumption. In order to "wake it up" and "remind" it that there is a 6th gear you will have to "bump" the cruise control one mph down or, alternatively, accelerate manually to around 76-77 mph, and then let it coast back to 75 mph. The transmission will then up-shift to 6th gear and stay there - until the next incline and downshift. In order to get back to 6th gear you will have to repeat the process again and again.

Also, the transmission likes to downshift aggressively even at high speeds. For example, a moderate incline at 75-80 mph will make it downshift to 4th, sending the engine well over 4500 rpm.

It seems as RAV design team just took the settings from the Camry and "forgot" to re-calibrate shift points taking into account the weight and aerodynamic profile of the RAV.

 

[katekebo]

Looks like both pico and RTexasF need some education ...

RobertN is perfectly right. Modern engines do change engine response during shifts to make shifts smoother and to reduce stress on the transmission. It's a bit more complicated than just "flipping" the throttle. The most common method is to briefly retard the ignition to momentarily reduce engine torque. It's a much faster method than moving the throttle valve. It takes only a fraction of a second is totally unnoticeable to a human driver.

Attached is the Toyota "layman" description of RAV transmission logic. The specific aspect of modulating engine torque is mentioned at the bottom of page 14.

The high response upshift control achieves highly responsive upshift operation using clutch to clutch pressure control, which regulates each clutch and brake quickly and precisely, and by using the powertrain cooperative control, which optimally regulates engine torque during shifting.

The "optimally regulates engine torque during shifting" part refers to momentarily reducing engine torque to allow smooth shift and reduce stress on the transmission.

 

[manhog]

With all due respect, I guess alot things make us wonder why which is a good thing. But can't u just notice this and if its not causing a?ny problems just go forward?
It's not like the rav is a race car? I might have noticed this too, but if it doesn't stall me out or cause real problems why worry. Ya and if you take it to the dealer they probably will say o its just normal. But its all good that people here take time to answer all or curious questions.

 

[katekebo]

But can't u just notice this and if its not causing a?ny problems just go forward?
It's not like the rav is a race car? I might have noticed this too, but if it doesn't stall me out or cause real problems why worry.

Frequent / excessive shifting will cause premature wear of the clutches / brakes in the transmission. Only time will tell if this is a serious problem. If the net effect is reducing the transmission life from 300,000 to 200,000 miles, it's probably not a problem for most people. But if it reduces the design life from 200,000 to 100,000 miles, I bet many people will be upset.

The specific transmission used in the RAV (U760E/F) has been used in Camry since 2010 and in Venza since 2009. I know from personal experience that it does NOT have the shifting issues in these two vehicles like it does in the RAV. My 2013 RAV shifted gears much more frequently than my Venza, and any Camry I have driven (mostly rentals). The U760 transmission is "very well behaved" in the Camry and the Venza, with smooth shifts, and (almost) never overshoots to 5th gear to downshift back to 4th gear soon after. Also, it does not downshifts abruptly from 6th to 4th gear when climbing, nor has the annoying characteristic of "forgetting" about 6th gear above 70 mph. Net, the transmission shift points calibration in the RAV is not as good as in Camry and Venza, resulting in many more shifts during normal driving cycle. I would "guesstimate" that the RAV up- and down-shifts at least 20 to 30% more times per driving cycle than a Camry or a Venza, and the shifts are much more "extreme", which could easily translate into 20 to 30% reduction in clutch life.

 

[RTexasF]

Looks like both pico and RTexasF need some education ...

You are indeed correct as pertaining to me, and I publicly apologize to RobertN for being so flippant. Even this big dumb old bird can learn.

 

[katekebo]

You are indeed correct, as pertaining to me, and I publicly apologize to RobertN for being so flippant. Even this big dumb old bird can learn.

:thumbs_up:

 

[pico]

Looks like both pico and RTexasF need some education ...

Consider it done. Apology to RobertN. I appreciate being corrected.

I wonder if the fact that I have the V6 and an old habit of manually downshifting when the engine might labor contributed to my ignorance. I just had never experienced what Robert had.

 

[Bluenoser]

Agreed....is there a fix yet??
Can the mapping from the Venza, which must be close in weight, be applied by the dealer???....without side effects??
My 4.3 with 4 speed was giving better gas mileage....due to constant downshifting by the 4.4....

 

[agray56]

The transmission mapping is my biggest beef with our RAV, especially the "forgetting" of 6th gear and agressive downshifts while in cruise. I wish it could be reprogrammed. As already said, our previous Venza didn't have this problem, but it was a V6.

I'm anxious to try out the 2016 Hybrid although I'm not a fan of CVT's.

If this doesn't change the next vehicle may be a different brand......

 

[bamarav4]

I took the rav4 to my dealer the following Monday. My service tech had 2 people drive the car and both told him that the rav was shifting fine. The service tech called me to the booth, said everthing checked out and it was shifting normal. I asked for the service manager and showed him the videos. The service manager offered to have another tech ride with me in a new 2015 xle (with 7 miles on it) to see if I could recreate. Within 5 mins on a flat road near the dealership I recreated the exact abnormal shift. The tech in the passenger seat next to me said "WOW" . Yes, I told the tech I'm not crazy and this is driving me nuts, he agreed he would dislike it also. Basicly I drove back to dealership, knowing full well that my Toyota dealership could not do anything to fix the problem.

 

[Zooks64]

This has been one of my beefs with my 2013 RAV4 LTD.

So annoying when on road trips on any non flat stretch. This is bound to be affecting my gas mileage in addition to making me want to hurl.

I test drove a 2016 LTD on one of these roads but the travel was too heavy to really be able to verify if it was going to do the same thing.

My initial reaction is that the transmission is definitely programmed differently. While it did downshift at many of the same spots it wasn't nearly as harsh as before. What I wasn't able to test sufficiently to satisfy my curiosity was if it would upshift the way it should and not hang out in 5th gear forever like it does now.

I plan to do another test drive one of these days because I'm not going to buy another RAV until they fix this and several other things that bug me. If that doesn't happen I'll probably end up in a Highlander.