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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
I live in Massachusetts where I am paying 24.2 cents per kwh
I am buying the prime because it seems like a better car than the hybrid limited for about the same money after tax credits.
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Based on epa estimates I have calculated the cost per mile

is this correct
I don’t have a charger now
Can I use a shared 110 volt circuit to charge
I heard that a level 2 charger is about $2500 does that include puling
If I don’t get a charger are there any downsides to just running it like a hybrid with a bigger battery

other comments and ideas are welcome

thanks
Murray
 

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2021 Rav4 Prime XSE
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Yes I agree with chuckh007. Check with your utility company. They may have an ev rate plan that lets you get a lower rate while charging at night. I spent around $1000 for the charger and the breaker installation minus the 30% tax credit on taxes. So it was about $700 after taxes but it is well worth the 4.5 hour change instead of 12 hour charge.
 

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Driving on EV only is a great experience. It's also a fantastic way to make short trips to the grocery store, etc.

Depending on what model you get, the on-board charger will be either 3.3kW or 6.6kW. The 3.3kW charger can easily run on any standard 120V receptacle (eg in your garage) with the supplied EVSE, so there is no need to buy an L2 EVSE. The 6.6kW models will also charge with the supplied EVSE using a standard receptacle but it will be slow (think overnight for a 0-full charge). A L2 EVSE only provides faster charging so unless you need to fully charge in 2.5 hours you don't need to buy one. The cost of the actual units is normally $500 or less but if you need an electrician to run a new circuit for it that can get expensive. That cost depends on many factors such as the distance from the breaker box, etc, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Driving on EV only is a great experience. It's also a fantastic way to make short trips to the grocery store, etc.

Depending on what model you get, the on-board charger will be either 3.3kW or 6.6kW. The 3.3kW charger can easily run on any standard 120V receptacle (eg in your garage) with the supplied EVSE, so there is no need to buy an L2 EVSE. The 6.6kW models will also charge with the supplied EVSE using a standard receptacle but it will be slow (think overnight for a 0-full charge). A L2 EVSE only provides faster charging so unless you need to fully charge in 2.5 hours there really isn't much point to buy one. The cost of the actual units is normally $500 or less but if you need an electrician to run a new circuit for it that can get expensive. That cost depends on many factors such as the distance from the breaker box, etc, etc.
I am getting the xse with 6.6 kw charger.
does anyone have experience with eversource in eastern mass
 

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I haven't checked your numbers but I am sure your HV vs EV costs will be close (and your calculations agree).
The suggestions to find a better rate are worth pursuing but if you don't find a way to swing it I would consider balancing EV and HV use based on efficiency and longevity. Short trips are more efficient as EV (and not good for ICE longevity). Longer trips and especially highway speeds are more efficient with HV (and a better use of your ICE). Balance also limit miles on your ICE which helps with vehicle longevity. The biggest question is whether it is worth spending and $$ on installing a faster EVSE to support your 6.6kW charger. I expect you will get lots of input to not waste the fast charge capability in the car but given your situation I would find it hard to justify financially.
 

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I heard that a level 2 charger is about $2500 does that include puling
That's a VERY high estimate. You can get very good EVSEs (the technical name; "charger" is inaccurate because the charger is actually within the vehicle) for a few hundred bucks on Amazon and elsewhere. You could even use the 120 V EVSE that comes with the car in a 240 V outlet using a plug adapter - much like your laptop charger probably accepts both 120 and 240 V, the RAV4P's EVSE does as well. The charge rate would be a bit slower than with a purchased L2 charger and a circuit with sufficient capacity. The bulk of the cost might be the electrician, and that depends on a lot of things: whether you need to upgrade your service panel, how long the run is, etc.


The 3.3kW charger can easily run on any standard 120V receptacle (eg in your garage) with the supplied EVSE
That's true - unless you use that circuit to power other devices. The EVSE will draw 12 amps, and if the circuit is rated for 15 amps, you can't power anything else on the circuit without risking blowing a circuit breaker (or worse). Just something to keep in mind. The things to ask when planning to buy an EV and intending to charge it at 120 V are, is the outlet close enough to car for the EVSE cable to reach, what is the quality of the outlet and wiring (if the wiring is older than 30 years or so, be skeptical; if the outlet looks old, replace it - they wear out with time and use and you want a solid electrical connection that won't overheat), what else is on that circuit, and will you have enough "down" time between trips to fully recharge the car (which, at 120 V, will take 12 hours or so from empty)?
 

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Can I use a shared 110 volt circuit to charge
The included portable charger (EVSE) draws 12 amps I believe. Your 110 volt circuit is likely on a 15 or 20 amp breaker. So to the extent that other devices on the circuit combined with the portable EVSE provided with the Prime do not exceed the breaker rating, you can use the shared circuit. Ideally though, you will want the total circuit utilization to be at about 80% of the breaker rating.

I heard that a level 2 charger is about $2500 does that include puling
I paid $1600 for the circuit install with the charger. It was a bit higher than I could have paid, but it did include a ChargePoint EVSE which is priced on the high end of available EVSE options. Your $2500 number seems quite high, but many factors influence the cost (EVSE cost as mentioned, distance to the panel, requirement for a sub-panel, etc...).
 

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If I don’t get a charger are there any downsides to just running it like a hybrid with a bigger battery
The RAV4 Hybrid gets better gas mileage than the RAV4 Prime in hybrid mode. So you'd be better off just getting a (much less expensive) hybrid if you don't plan to charge the battery.

Also, if you haven't reserved a RAV4P yet, you run the risk that it will arrive after the new year, and we don't know what the tax credit structure will be next year.
 

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You can simply charge the car nightly on the 110V to get a full charge in 12 hours. Then use the battery power the next day until it runs out and then drive in hybrid mode.

I think you're right when you say that the Prime is a nicer vehicle than the hybrid model. One of those nicer features is driving around the city in EV mode. It's a quick, quiet and very nice way to get around the city. Even if the cost of electricity and gasoline is the same the EV driving experience is more enjoyable to me.
 

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You can simply charge the car nightly on the 110V to get a full charge in 12 hours. Then use the battery power the next day until it runs out and then drive in hybrid mode.
OP, do this. I charged on the included 120V EVSE for about a month while I waited to get my L2 EVSE.
 

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OP - use a lower mi/kwh for your estimate, unless you're mainly city driving. I estimate 3.1 mi/kwh and 38 mpg.
With gas averaging $4.01 based on my purchases since June, and paying $0.2512 per kwh, EV miles are roughly 23% cheaper so far.
I generally use EV only around town and HV for our longer road trips.

The Rav4 Hybrid achieves better mpg, weighs less, costs less, and has more cargo space. If not for the $7500 tax credit, I would not have purchased a Prime. Hyundai and Kia are offering competitive models in the 2022 Tucson (HV and PHEV) and upcoming 2023 Kia Sportage (HV and PHEV also).

If going for the PHEV and tax credit, I'd suggest whichever model you can buy before 12/31 - so you can immediately claim the credit on your 2021 taxes. If you purchase in 2022 and the tax credit is still available - you'll have to wait until 2023 when you file your taxes to get the $. Jump on one now if you can get MSRP, or be patient, or choose a hybrid - my $.02
 

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In my part of the country, we pay 9 cents /khr between midnight and 6 am. Simply plug in for the night....a no brainer !
What area is that? Electric rates are pretty high right now due to rising fuel costs. See below and select residential.

 

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What area is that? Electric rates are pretty high right now due to rising fuel costs. See below and select residential.

Note that chuckh was referring to midnight to 6 am. Some utilities have net metering so your rate depends on time of use. That's actually very useful for electric car charging because most people don't use their cars in the dead of night and it's the perfect time to charge them.
 

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I am getting the xse with 6.6 kw charger.
does anyone have experience with eversource in eastern mass
I'm also in eastern MA but National Grid is my supplier. My rates are very similar (expensive) like yours and NG does not offer TOU (time of use) rates. With the rates here being so high we decided to install a solar PV system. It would have been a great investment even w/o the Prime but getting the R4P made it a slam dunk. Great for the environment and the wallet.
 

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OP - use a lower mi/kwh for your estimate, unless you're mainly city driving. I estimate 3.1 mi/kwh and 38 mpg.
With gas averaging $4.01 based on my purchases since June, and paying $0.2512 per kwh, EV miles are roughly 23% cheaper so far.
I generally use EV only around town and HV for our longer road trips.

The Rav4 Hybrid achieves better mpg, weighs less, costs less, and has more cargo space. If not for the $7500 tax credit, I would not have purchased a Prime. Hyundai and Kia are offering competitive models in the 2022 Tucson (HV and PHEV) and upcoming 2023 Kia Sportage (HV and PHEV also).

If going for the PHEV and tax credit, I'd suggest whichever model you can buy before 12/31 - so you can immediately claim the credit on your 2021 taxes. If you purchase in 2022 and the tax credit is still available - you'll have to wait until 2023 when you file your taxes to get the $. Jump on one now if you can get MSRP, or be patient, or choose a hybrid - my $.02
For those of us that file taxes quarterly, just pay less per quarter and enjoy the credit within the year of purchase. But if the BBB passes you lose $3500 in 2022.
 

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What area is that? Electric rates are pretty high right now due to rising fuel costs. See below and select residential.

Western Colorado Residential electric rate $0.11/kwh, gasoline $3.50/gal..
 

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For those of us that file taxes quarterly, just pay less per quarter and enjoy the credit within the year of purchase. But if the BBB passes you lose $3500 in 2022.
Yeah, we could also adjust W4 withholding to get more each paycheck to have a more even number at the end of the year, but didn't care to do so. (bought in June '21)

It is very much a buy now if you can and want to, vs lets wait and see what happens with the EV credits. Glad I got mine when I did - but I'd also love to rent a Tucson hybrid to see how the Hyundai fits us vs the Rav (seats, cargo, controls, type stuff).
 

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I'd also love to rent a Tucson hybrid to see how the Hyundai fits us vs the Rav (seats, cargo, controls, type stuff).
Tucson sensor buttons might not be for everyone but aside from that Rav4 feels dated in comparison inside and out
 
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