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I am getting the xse with 6.6 kw charger.
does anyone have experience with eversource in eastern mass
We have Eversource in MA, and just charge at 120 volts in our garage (with a 3.3-kW charge converter in our SE Prime) and have zero problems having enough charge each day after overnight charging. But your OP question was about electricity cost, which seems ironic to me because you're buying the more-expensive XSE trim. All I can say is this: we have bought two PHEVs now, and going from daily driving about 25 miles roundtrip to work and back for both my wife and me, in going from an ICEV to a PHEV, our monthly "fuel" costs went down about $100/month (from gasoline only to gas+electricity) per vehicle because most of our local driving changed to all-electric driving. Our electricity costs are way cheaper than gasoline costs.
 

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For those of us that file taxes quarterly, just pay less per quarter and enjoy the credit within the year of purchase. But if the BBB passes you lose $3500 in 2022.
Yes, the House version of the BBB act seems to have changed in the last couple of weeks; the version a couple of weeks ago inferred that PHEV buyers had until the end of 2022 to still claim up to $7500. But the version I looked at last night now has a base price of $4k effective (presumably, but not stated) for cars manufactured (not bought, as is the case now) before 2022 Jan. 1, and you have to have a minimum of 40 kWh battery pack to get the extra $3500 (meaning a total of $7500 federal text credit eligibility after 2021 Dec. 31 only for cars with battery packs > 40 kWh, eliminating virtually all PHEVs currently on the market new). That wording about "manufactured" suggests that you can buy a car in 2022 that was built in Dec. 2021 (or earlier) and still get the full $7500 tax credit, but of course the IRS might revert to their current wording that the date that matters is when the new owner places the car in service (not the manufacturing date).
 

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Hi
I live in Massachusetts where I am paying 24.2 cents per kwh
I am buying the prime because it seems like a better car than the hybrid limited for about the same money after tax credits.
View attachment 174093
Based on epa estimates I have calculated the cost per mile

is this correct
I don’t have a charger now
Can I use a shared 110 volt circuit to charge
I heard that a level 2 charger is about $2500 does that include puling
If I don’t get a charger are there any downsides to just running it like a hybrid with a bigger battery

other comments and ideas are welcome

thanks
Murray
Murray,

There are other costs associated with ICE that you will not pay in EV or less.

Fewer Oil changes

Muffler/Exhaust repairs

Air Filters

Radiator Flushes and replacement.

Belts/Hoses

Water Pump

Spark Plugs/Tuneups

thermostat

Head Gasket

ICE generates a lot of heat and parts fail when exposed to heat. ICE also has many more moving parts vs electric motors.

I know there are many more parts I am missing in a combustion engine that will need replaced. I just included parts I have personally had to replace and it was not cheap
 

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Murray,

There are other costs associated with ICE that you will not pay in EV or less.

Fewer Oil changes

Muffler/Exhaust repairs

Air Filters

Radiator Flushes and replacement.

Belts/Hoses

Water Pump

Spark Plugs/Tuneups

thermostat

Head Gasket

ICE generates a lot of heat and parts fail when exposed to heat. ICE also has many more moving parts vs electric motors.

I know there are many more parts I am missing in a combustion engine that will need replaced. I just included parts I have personally had to replace and it was not cheap
Was the car with 200k miles and not maintained well? I never had to replace any of that aside from oil changes, filters and regular maintenance on a 12 year old car? But hybrid battery did fail at 160k
 

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Your math looks correct. You can double check it here if you want: Electric Vehicle Savings Calculator | ChargEVC

Your KWh rate is ridiculously high. I thought I had it bad.

If the out the door cost is the same, I would definitely get the prime over a hybrid - I can't see any disadvantage even if fuel cost savings are about the same so why not, unless you really don't like plugging things in.
 

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I question claims of electric rates paid across the US. I frequently here the 'base rate' which sounds great and fits roughly some of these claims. But where we live (Greater Denver CO) the base rate is around .08/kWh, but taking the number of kWh billed for divided into the actual $$ covering the electric portion of our bill, it's really close to .165/kWh. Here's a chart from the US EIA as of Nov 2021. Note Colorado is stated at .1027/kWh and as I say out the door it's really .165 or so.

Someone here said a full charge is 14.2kWh or so for our R4P, and as we get around 45m/charge, we're paying 14.2 x .165 / 45miles = $0.052/mile, whereas regular gasoline would get us around $3.39/g / 30m/gallon = $.113/mile. Not sure how to calculate what our mpg would be in pure ICE mode but 30mpg is probably a bit generous for an AWD car w/ this curb weight.

State Electricity Profiles
Data for 2020 | Release date: November 4, 2021 | Next release date: December 2022
Archived State Electricity Profiles
Choose a Year: Select a Year 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 2011 (zip) 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 1999 1998 1996
NameAverage retail price (cents/kWh)Net summer capacity (MW)Net generation (MWh)Total retail sales (MWh)
Alabama9.8428,739137,542,70283,395,605
Alaska19.822,7676,276,4415,917,577
Arizona10.4427,115109,305,05781,960,074
Arkansas8.3214,83554,641,25945,851,003
California18.0078,055193,074,930250,174,672
Colorado10.2717,63254,115,01156,050,264
Connecticut19.1310,27641,190,57227,113,673
Delaware10.243,3725,205,37211,129,051
District of Columbia11.9042201,1049,785,775
Florida10.0661,833250,827,799242,440,171
Georgia9.9337,279120,126,001133,470,142
Hawaii27.552,9949,079,0198,796,761
Idaho7.995,21317,686,13524,461,352
Illinois9.7544,442173,394,525132,469,277
Indiana9.9227,31489,956,91597,155,744
Iowa8.9721,33359,636,67150,639,862
Kansas10.3816,98154,541,83139,483,946
 

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Geez, I thought my electricity rates were bad. On-peak rate of $0.111 during the winter and $0.167 during the summer. Super-off peak (1AM-5AM) rates of $0.043 during the winter and $0.023 during the summer. When I had my plug-in hybrid, I set it to charge during my off-peak and super-off peak hours.

Check with your electric company to see if they have an EV or “demand based” pricing plan.
 

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god i hate the complicated nature of the electric billing calculations in some places . we have a service fee of arould 25 bucks doesn't change with amount of power used a billion kwh to 0 kwh it still has to be paid . so i would discount this on calculation . then just a flat fee plus tax . its very simple here and im glad for it .
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Your math looks correct. You can double check it here if you want: Electric Vehicle Savings Calculator | ChargEVC

Your KWh rate is ridiculously high. I thought I had it bad.

If the out the door cost is the same, I would definitely get the prime over a hybrid - I can't see any disadvantage even if fuel cost savings are about the same so why not, unless you really don't like plugging things in.
I checked with Eversource in Massachusetts and they do NOT have any off peak discounts or EV discounts. If I but a $900 charger and run off peak I can get a one time $300 rebate.
Aren’t they generous. Power companies will have to build more generators to meet the needs of a deluge of EV vehicle. Off peak pricing should help them and the consumer. They are just greedy SOBs.
would it help to contact the public utilities commission
 

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I checked with Eversource in Massachusetts and they do NOT have any off peak discounts or EV discounts. If I but a $900 charger and run off peak I can get a one time $300 rebate.
Aren’t they generous. Power companies will have to build more generators to meet the needs of a deluge of EV vehicle. Off peak pricing should help them and the consumer. They are just greedy SOBs.
would it help to contact the public utilities commission
Well you could try and convince Maine to allow Quebec's hydro power transmission line,

 

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Here's a chart from the US EIA as of Nov 2021. Note Colorado is stated at .1027/kWh and as I say out the door it's really .165 or so.
I just checked the EIA site to see what the NY average retail price was, and interestingly enough the rate given (.1487/kwh) matches almost exactly my "all in" (total electric cost w/taxes/fees/etc... divided by billed kwh usage) average rate of .147.

I'm sure it's defined somewhere on the site, but I'm not exactly sure what encompasses "average retail price".
 

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I just checked the EIA site to see what the NY average retail price was, and interestingly enough the rate given (.1487/kwh) matches almost exactly my "all in" (total electric cost w/taxes/fees/etc... divided by billed kwh usage) average rate of .147.

I'm sure it's defined somewhere on the site, but I'm not exactly sure what encompasses "average retail price".
1.5 cents of our 16.7 cents/kWh comes from Windsource, a premium added that is somehow connected to subsidize wind power for our local utility or something along those lines. So w/o that, we would be around 15.2 cents/kWh. But arguably, that's what we all should be doing to help offset the massive subsidies paid to oil companies, and to help sponsor conversion to renewables and nuclear. As we know it's nice to drive around in EV mode but when the EV is coming from coal fired generation it's a bit of a major greenwash. If you can afford a new R4P I bet you can also afford to help subsidize renewables/nuclear. I justify it also by cutting down local production of ground level ozone of which Denver often wins the prize worldwide during the summer. We have something called 'Elec Commodity Adjustment' which amounts to about 4 cents/kWh and I was told this is what the utility company pays for energy from outside sources, or some confusing thing along those lines. Soon we will have Time of Use metering which will reduce our cost to around 14.5c/kWh.
 

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If you can afford a new R4P I bet you can also afford to help subsidize renewables/nuclear.
My electric bill is broken down into 3 categories... delivery, supply, and taxes/surcharges. I receive multiple solicitations annually from third-party energy suppliers with offers to switch the supply component over to them, with most utilizing some form of renewable energy. In my specific use case, the cost to do so (so far) would either result in no change to the supply cost component or it would increase, albeit slightly.

That said, while subsiding renewables may well be a worthy cause, as I've researched the various companies that send out these solicitations I've yet to find one that had anything but atrocious consumer ratings/reviews. The list of issues include numerous billing problems, difficulty switching to another provider/terminating, unexpected termination bills, etc....

Everyone else's mileage may vary of course.

Soon we will have Time of Use metering which will reduce our cost to around 14.5c/kWh.
I have that option as well. The terms likely vary from utility to utility, but here "Time of Use" is a plan that one can sign up for that offers a somewhat lower rate during "off-peak" hours (defined as 9:00 PM to 7:00 AM locally). To gain any real benefit, one would need to shift a good deal of utilization to that time frame. The plan guidelines come right out and state that for that matter. In my case, far and away the bulk of my electric utilization is during the on-peak time frame. With the exception of an occasional <2 hour charge of the Prime, there really isn't anything else that I can 'shift'. Coupled with the fact the "Time of Use" plan actually has a slightly higher on-peak rate than when not on the plan, it makes little sense for me.

Not implying that these types of plans make no sense at all, it's actually a great alternative for many I imagine, but it's not for me.
 

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I checked with Eversource in Massachusetts and they do NOT have any off peak discounts or EV discounts. If I but a $900 charger and run off peak I can get a one time $300 rebate.
Aren’t they generous. Power companies will have to build more generators to meet the needs of a deluge of EV vehicle. Off peak pricing should help them and the consumer. They are just greedy SOBs.
would it help to contact the public utilities commission
There are creative solutions to the problem of EV charging during peak hours. My utility, ConEd, offers something called "SmartCharge." They give you a dongle that you plug into the OBD port. It transmits your charging details (amount, time and location) via a cell connection. Based on that info they give you a credit of 10 cents/kWh for charging in the ConEd territory from midnight to 8 am. They also give other "rewards" such as $20 per summer month in which you totally avoid charging between 2 pm and 8 pm weekdays. ConEd sees this as a win-win because they don't have to build more power plants or buy expensive electricity from "peaker" plants. I suggest you contact your utility, your PUC and state legislators/governor and tell them you think the utility should do something like this. The more customers demand it, the more likely it is to happen. As EVs become more common, solutions like this will become more popular.
 

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That said, while subsiding renewables may well be a worthy cause, as I've researched the various companies that send out these solicitations I've yet to find one that had anything but atrocious consumer ratings/reviews.
Mine is brokered and sold thru XcelEnergy, the local utility.
 

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I posted on this some time ago...I too live in eastern MA and pay that same rate. I ran the numbers and by my calculation, after 3.09 per gallon it's cheaper to use the battery.
 

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I question claims of electric rates paid across the US. I frequently here the 'base rate' which sounds great and fits roughly some of these claims. But where we live (Greater Denver CO) the base rate is around .08/kWh, but taking the number of kWh billed for divided into the actual $$ covering the electric portion of our bill, it's really close to .165/kWh. Here's a chart from the US EIA as of Nov 2021. Note Colorado is stated at .1027/kWh and as I say out the door it's really .165 or so.

Someone here said a full charge is 14.2kWh or so for our R4P, and as we get around 45m/charge, we're paying 14.2 x .165 / 45miles = $0.052/mile, whereas regular gasoline would get us around $3.39/g / 30m/gallon = $.113/mile. Not sure how to calculate what our mpg would be in pure ICE mode but 30mpg is probably a bit generous for an AWD car w/ this curb weight.

State Electricity Profiles
Data for 2020 | Release date: November 4, 2021 | Next release date: December 2022
Archived State Electricity Profiles
Choose a Year: Select a Year 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 2011 (zip) 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 1999 1998 1996
NameAverage retail price (cents/kWh)Net summer capacity (MW)Net generation (MWh)Total retail sales (MWh)
Alabama9.8428,739137,542,70283,395,605
Alaska19.822,7676,276,4415,917,577
Arizona10.4427,115109,305,05781,960,074
Arkansas8.3214,83554,641,25945,851,003
California18.0078,055193,074,930250,174,672
Colorado10.2717,63254,115,01156,050,264
Connecticut19.1310,27641,190,57227,113,673
Delaware10.243,3725,205,37211,129,051
District of Columbia11.9042201,1049,785,775
Florida10.0661,833250,827,799242,440,171
Georgia9.9337,279120,126,001133,470,142
Hawaii27.552,9949,079,0198,796,761
Idaho7.995,21317,686,13524,461,352
Illinois9.7544,442173,394,525132,469,277
Indiana9.9227,31489,956,91597,155,744
Iowa8.9721,33359,636,67150,639,862
Kansas10.3816,98154,541,83139,483,946
Those rates include commercial and industrial customers which consume more but have much lower rates than residential customers. As a result some of those rates are substantially lower than the average residential rate.
 
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