Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 610 Posts
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Purchased a new 2002 Toyota RAV4 at Stevinson Toyota, Denver, CO in 2002. Recently, we found that the transmission was shifting oddly. Found out that Toyota put out a Technical Service Bulletin in early 2006 after defects started surfacing stating to replace the car's computer (ECU). The company did not inform owners about this defect which is now surfacing and did not recall due to cost of replacing the ECU and transmission it destroys. The defective ECU burns up the clutch and other parts in the transmission.

Toyota will not do the honorable thing and recall the vehicles or even pay for any portion of the repair if it is even a tiny bit outside the warranty period (as ours is). Bottom line - they will not stand behind their product or mistake if it it costs them too much (unless there are overwhelming public complaints/outcry as with their head gasket recall).

Currently, the vehicle is at Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Service Dept number is 719.278.4851. They will not even discount the repair which we need to have done. Also tried getting in touch with Stevenson Toyota Service Manager, Jeff Totsky (866.424.0557),but still have not gotten a call back.

Technical Service Bulletin is: TC002-06, Revised March 3, 2006. Do a search for the words TC002-06 RAV4 , and you will find out about it and many complaints blogged.

Excerpt:
"Some 2001 – 2003 model year RAV4 vehicles equipped with an automatic transaxle
may exhibit a harsh shift condition and/or M.I.L. “ON” with DTC P0750, P0753, P0755,
P0758, and/or P1760 stored. Improvements have been made to the Engine Control
Module (ECM) (SAE term: Powertrain Control Module/PCM) manufacturing process to
reduce the possibility of this condition occurring. Use the following procedure to repair the vehicle."

It goes on to say replace the ECM/ECU and possibly the transmission. Total cost is currently around $4800.00. I am getting the ECU/ECM replaced at this time and then will take it to AAMCO for the tranny rebuild. The ECU/ECM part itself costs just over 1,000, then there is labor added to that.

I'm a veteran (retired Air Force), and I don't like being treated like I'm trying to steal something from them (this is how they make you feel) when it is actually the honorable thing that they should take care of the problem. Ironic that a company based in a country that emphasizes honor to such a high degree holds so little regard for doing the honorable thing.

---------------------
Note: TSB :arrow: http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17043
 
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
BBB complaint results for ECU/Transmission problem RE: 2001-2003 RAV4s

Complaint
Complaint Classification: Gen. Service Issues

Complaint Description - Posted 4/18/2008


Purchased a new 2002 Toyota RAV4. Found that the transmission is shifting oddly. Found Toyota put out a Technical Service Bulletin (http://rav4world.com/tsb/2001/TC002-06.pdf) in early 2006 due to high problem rate. The company did not inform owners 2 years ago about this defect which is now surfacing and did not recall due to cost. The defective ECM burns up the clutch and other parts in the transmission. Toyota will not do the ethical and honorable thing and recall the vehicles or even pay for any portion the repair if it is even a tiny bit outside the warranty period (as ours is). Bottom line - they will not stand behind their product or mistake if it costs them too much (unless there is a sufficient public outcry as with the bad head gaskets in another model's recall). Currently, the vehicle is at Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Service Dept number is 719.278.4851. They said that Corporate Toyota decided they will not even discount any part of the repair which we need to have done. Also tried getting a call back from Stevenson Toyota (where we bought it) Service Manager, Jeff Totsky (866.424.0557),but have not gotten no reply. Internet chatter about this can be found in many places like: http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/toyota/TEACK3S8TKGJN6IA3/p2 Company should have its BBB membership revoked since it is not acting in accordance with ethical business practices.

Complaint Summary


Knew about high failure rate ECM 2 years ago. Did not recall. Will not assist with resulting repairs occurring now, which are now out of warranty.
Resolution Sought


Pay for all or at least some of the repair. ECU part is over 1,000 plus labor (400.00?). Transmission rebuild is 2,800 at AAMCO. They chose not to recall a known high failure part two years ago when car was in warranty. This problem is widespread. See forums at RAV4world.com and motortrend.com to name a few, or do an Internet search.

Additional Information
Date Problem First Occurred:
4/15/2008
Product or Service: 2002 Toyota RAV4 with a defective ECM and resultant transmission
Model Name or Number: Toyota RAV4
Date Purchased: 4/17/2008
Order Number:
Amount Paid: $4200.00


Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 05/02/2008
Assistance is denied due to the vehicle mileage,and lack of service maintenance. Toyota Dealership replaced the ECU and did not charge the customer for labor and also sold the parts at cost to the customer.
Assistance is denied due to the vehicle mileage,and lack of service maintenance.



Consumer's Rebuttal
Consumer's Rebuttal - Posted 05/13/2008
This does not satisfy the requirement that businesses behave ethically in order to be BBB members. The high failure part was known about years ago and no notification was sent to owners to watch for the symptoms so their transmission would not get fried. This is a safety issue since the erratic shifting could cause an accident. That seems like negligence to me. Gee, thanks for not marking up the price of the defective part and not charging for the one hour of labor. Not sufficient. Joining a class action suit that is forming at this time. No honor in what you are doing (or not doing).


Company's Final Response
Company's Final Response - Posted 05/20/2008
Toyota District Service Parts Manager declined assistance due to mileage (90K plus) and lack of service history (none registered at any Toyota dealership). On March 3rd, 2006 Toyota issued TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) TC002-06 to address the possibility of harsh shift condition and/or M.I.L. "on." Improvements were made to the Engine Control Module to reduce the possibility if this condition occurred. Toyota does not inform Customers when a TSB is created as they are designated to support technicians on how to diagnose/fix the specific issue. Toyota stands behind its products and as a result, the warranty was extended to 96 months or 80k miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle in-service date. The Customer did not have a concern with the component within the extended warranty time period. No assistance with repair.
 
X

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
ECM Warranty

I've done some searching and found that the ECM is under warranty up to 96 months or 80,000 miles. We just got ours replace not to long ago, now the car runs like new. Dealer didn't try to argue or anything. I have a TSB file stating the ECm warranty if you would like a copy i would be glad to email it to you. Just let me know
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
X10kx,

Can I have a copy please: I pm'd you my email address. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Thanks Bobzw!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I am looking at a 2001 RAV4 for that's for sale - it has the transmission hesitation consistent with the ECM issue - they say its only been happening for a few days - price is very good - but how long does it take to damage the actual transmission? If it does some shifts ok, can I assume good? Any road tests I can do? I know it's hard to tell without full inspection but any thoughts from you folks much appreciated.

Cheers...
 
G

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
96 mounthes should cover 2002!

I see that 96 mounthes extended warranty should cover the 2002 rav4 or is it more than 80000 miles?
I have a rav4 2001 and I can see that the transmission shifts atrangely when the car is cold, is iit the same problem?
Can I claim service even in europe?
The car has 10600 km
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Two weeks ago- I brought our 02 Rav in for a Tranny Flush(complete) through Norm Wagner Toyota. Locally they are not known to be a consumer friendly dealership on the sales side- but never really dealt with them for Service- car was bought used elsewhere.

I had 65K on vehicle and am working to get Xfer case and rear diff fluids changed, and the Transmission as well. For the $180(or $50 higher than independent shops)- I figured I would let Toyota do this- just in case anything went awry.

4 or 5 days later- I noticed the 2-3 upshift was balking. I soon noticed that at some stops- I seemed to be taking off in 2nd gear, and then a shudder. There were no C/E lights thrown or anything. Well- yesterday it was back to Wagner Toyota(after I had done some more research on the issues). I mentioned there was nothing wrong with the vehicle before it went it(knowing that wouldn't matter to them), but also I mentioned the TSB on the ECM, and the extension by Toyota of warranty. The writer looks at me, and says he knows of ALL the issues with the Rav and the ECM and Tranny, and IF he could bill any of this to Toyota- it makes his life MUCH easier.

Yesterday afternoon- they called- car ready, and they changed out the ECM. Driven for 25 miles by one of their servants and found no mechanical issues. Completely FREE, and have a nice day.

Driven last night and this morning on my 50 mile commute- seems issue free SO FAR. I hope there was nothing done permanently to the tranny caused by the ECM. Total mile driven from Flush to ECM replacement was 250.

Chris
 
G

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Does anyone know if there is a class action suit regarding the transmission/ECM problem? If so, where do I sign up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
OK, so 2 days ago my 2002 rav4 with 60,000 miles started hesitating and having harsh shifting. It drives like a stick shift car and kicks at every gears. So I took the car in and the dealership re-flash the ECM again (it was re-flash once in 2007). They called me up and told me that the car is ready but they also have an ECU on order because the ECU tested bad. So tomorrow, I'm getting my ECU installed (parts and labor cover under warranty)

Will replacing the ECU fix the problem or should they replace the ECM also?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
OK so the ECU is the same as ECM...I didn't know that.
Thought I'll give you guys the update.....

I went to pick up my car today and the tech was shocked with all the info I gave him.

I printed out the TBS and 50 page of complaints from all these different site.
I had put all the info on the passenger seat on purpose so they will see that I
did my research. That's the main reason why the tech decided to replace the ECU
and realized that I know what I'm talking about so they can't lie to me.

So I had drove the car for 30 miles on the freeway and city streets. So far, it's shifting like it should be. No problem yet (knock on wood).
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
TOYOTA RAV 4 2001 1007,000 KM. ECU - TRANSMISSION ISSUES,
I have had the same issues with the ECU as you all manifesting with the transmission suddenly slipping, literally an overnight phenomenon.
I had the car checked by usual mechanic with handheld computer diagnostics, no fault codes;, however symptoms still there so stopped driving the car and started to ring around to inform myself.
The answers came back thick and fast, it was as if every one could diagnose the problem without even seeing the car, they literally told me what year and model car I had after briefly describing the problems.
"Change the ECU [$ 1700- $2100] and if you are lucky that may fix the problem, if unlucky and you drove the car without noticing in time the transmission will need replacing[$3500 -7500]" was the standard reply.
After reading all the posts on web about this and speaking to dozens of independent transmission workshop Experts & Mechanics, I have contacted NRMA, Dept of fair trading, and Channel Seven and Nine regarding doing a story on their "current affair", & "Today Tonight" programs as their are some massive safety issues related to this situation, [ my wife & two young children were nearly rammed by other vehicles several times at traffic lights because of transmission suddenly slipping, the media are interested in this !!!.
I have several experts willing to go on record and speak about this issue.
Let me know if you want to form a group to bring this issue into public awareness thus encouraging Toyota to take responsibility for their products and stop sweeping this under the carpet.
After my local Toyota workshop, replaced the ECU [$ 1682] the vehicle seemed Ok, but as the transmission will not show up any fault code if it is damaged only time will tell !
Confidence in the brand Toyota is now at a very low point with me.
Before paying my repair bill I contacted Toyota customer relations Sydney/ Taren Point /Tel; 02 9710 3333 and made a serious complaint regarding this issue and informed them of my awareness of just how widespread this issue is and how the media is interested in doing a story on this matter, [ in 2006 these vehicles were recalled in the USA for software upgrade a free service ], Anyway they spoke to the dealer, the dealer spoke to the warranty dept ,and lo and behold they came to the party and reduced my repair bill by $ 800 This is a start however I am convinced that this should be a free recall service and if transmissions are damaged due to a faulty ECU that controls it the transmission is by definition COLLATERAL DAMAGE for wich Toyota also should be responsible and prepared to assist their loyal [till now] customers.
IF YOU HAVE YOUR CAR REPAIRED BY TOYOTA YOU COULD TRY TO CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE PRIOR TO PAYING YOUR BILL AND HOPEFULLY THIS WAY YOU TOO CAN AT LEAST SAVE SOME MONEY AND COLLECTIVELLY WE WILL EVENTUALLY ENCOURAGE TOYOTA TO ADJUST THEIR DENIAL STRATEGY ABOUT THIS MATTER.
PLEASE RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THIS ISSUE & TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!
 
D

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Just had the auto tranny problem in my 02 Rav. Toyota warranty was honored by the local dealer. I was within the time and mileage so no problem.
Sorry but it looks as if Toyota is strict about the warranty. By the way, get it fixed!! The auto tranny is burning up the disks inside and the tranny fix is much more costly than the ECM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
*sigh* Read all the threads in this forum about this issue and unfortunatly I have the same problem with my 2000/2001 Rav4 Cruiser with 183,000 kms.

Issue actually occured today and i pulled over at a mates place as i want to cause as little damage as possible. It is quite bad.

What should I do? Just goto my local mehcanic and tell him the information Ive read and replace ECU? Or should i Goto a Toyota dealer and try to get them to fix it for free.

My car is obviously out of warranty and way over 80,00kms. Do i have to pay for this bullshit problem? or will a toyota dealer sort it out.

ps... Need a dam car for work and mechanics are all on holiday, wont be able to get this sorted for at least another 2days. (xmas break)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Just got back from Toyota Dealers.

Told them the situation i am in and the information i know. 1 guy understood and was considerate in my situation where as another guy suggested that i went to a transmission specialist and get the gearbox fixed.

But i quickly changed his mind after i explain the situation and told him of this forum and the petition and lawsuit and ALSO that it has happend to my older Sister's car which is the exact same model which we brought on the same day. (true story, happend to her car at around 200xxx, mechanic said computer says no faults so they changed gear box with 2nd hand low ks, and problem was still there THEN they did the computer and it was fixed after all the hassle and it cost them more)

So i told him..i just want the dam computer changed but he kept opting and telling me that would be a bad road to take if i am putting my trust with 'some internet group'. But after i told him everything he said ok sure but we wont guarantee anything.

I told them thats fine..i just wanna leave the car here to get sorted as i dont wanna drive the car risking more gear box problems.

im waiting on a call from them, will let you guys know what happens next.

*sigh*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
To continue on from the last post.

The bloke ended up calling me and said that they had the part and he wanted the all clear for him to go through with what i wanted him to do. Just before he rang me, i found out on one of these forums that simply resetting/flashing the ECU would help.

So when he rang, i told him ' is it possible to just reset the Ecu? because i thiink that will fix the problem and it will be a cheaper alternative' he simply replied, no i cannot, i do not have the equipment to do that. I took his word for it and because i was in desperate need of a car for work. I went through with it only later to find out that after talking to my brother in law with the same car. He said his mechanic was able to reset the ECu by simply arching 2 wires together.

If i had known that was the case i would have taken it to him but because i was desperate and did not want to drive the car around causing more damage, i guess iw as forced to make that decision i did which i am kicking myself over cause i spent $1700. But sheesh, the toyota guy pretty much bullshited to me just so that he could sell some parts and charge me for profit and labour.
 
1 - 20 of 610 Posts
Top