[Guest]

I' ve got a 4x2 v6 black 4451 coming it has these options

EJ, GY, HD, LA, RL, SR, TO, M5

The extra fees that I am questioning are as follows: These fees + the price of the car + extra options = Total invoice of 27028

295. T.M.F.
650- Delivery
416 T.A.F.
489- Base VEH HB
13- PIO
244- Finance reserve

I'm fine with the Delivery that a standard fee. The Dealer must make some money and that's what the 489 Base VEH Hold Back plus the $600 over invoice.

but the TMF and TAF i was told are advertising fees.. i think those are bullsh*t charges. PIO $13 is what they charge me for installing my m5 cargo mats!!!!

What is Finance reserve? I'm getting charged 244 for that...

At total of 968 of extras that IMHO are extra charges that shouldn't be there...

Can i ask of all you out there that has bought a RAV4... to look at your invoices and check for me to see if you have the same kind of fees.

I'm in houston, tx. And I've seen a few of you live in texas. Those are the invoices that I really want to know about, so that i compare a Houston sale to another Houston sale....

Thanks

 

[Guest]

I posted a pic in my album...

This gif.. is the file he sent me that shows the breakdown of all of the fees....

take a look..

thanks

Luke

 

[kendfw]

Just offer what you would like to pay and go from there. Pay a hundred dollar more from your dream price would not break the bank. Worst case, $150 more. If it worth the hassle to drive down the street to get $150 less, tell them by walking out the deal. The question is will you get the next $150 when you get there..

Bottom line, you're the buyer and make the offer and don't let them dictate the selling point.

 

[The G Man]

Some dealer pays cash for their cars but most of them Finance them. Finance reserve is for the finance charges that the dealer paid when they have a car sitting in the lot. Toyota pays for the financial charges for the first few months and then the dealer pays after that. Since most RAV4 doesn’t sit on a dealers lot for too long, I would try to negotiate that fee.

 

[kendfw]

Some dealer pays cash for their cars but most of them Finance them. Finance reserve is for the finance charges that the dealer paid when they have a car sitting in the lot. Toyota pays for the financial charges for the first few months and then the dealer pays after that. Since most RAV4 doesn’t sit on a dealers lot for too long, I would try to negotiate that fee.

The finance manager of a Toyota told me that finance reserve is a payout to dealer if they could sell the vehicle along with a loan/lease from Toyota. They won't get that money if they could not move the vehicle with a loan/lease from Toyota.

He did'n't take off the amount but I did offer less for the vehicle.

 

[Guest]

Most of these look like add-ons.

The freight cost is correct and part of "invoice" price.

I can't find some of these options on either KBB or Edmunds, but it looks like your invoice price should be in the neighborhood of $22,500, which is right in line with your guy's $21,900 + $650 freight.

Holdback and Finanace Reserve are NOT add-ons! The dealer gets this money back from Toyota (HB on all cars, FR if the buyer finances the car through TMC). By tacking these charges onto the "invoice" price, the dealer is double-counting them and getting paid for them twice, once from you, once from Toyota.

$13 for installation of floor mats? Tell him to leave them in the shrink wrap in the back of the car and you'll install them yourself. Any salesperson worth ANYTHING will "install" floormats for you for free. Even for only $13, there are few things that PO's a customer more than a bag of floomats in the trunk, or having to pay for their "installation."

Ad fees vary from dealer to dealer and from region to region. I have no idea what is typical for you, but $700 seems REALLY high. Maybe more $150 would be reasonable?

I find all of these "fees" are just ways for dealers to make it look like they aren't making as much money as they are. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with profit, I just don't like the deception.

The best way to do this is to ignore all the fees, negotiate to get the dealer's best "out the door" price, INCLUDING title fees, taxes and all other fees and THEN negotiating that same number from a variety of dealers (should be plenty in Houston!). By doing this, you can find out how low they're really willing to go, and it really won't matter what the additional fees are. Don't be afraid to tell them what the other guy was offering it to you for. Keep up the cycle, as each guy matches the last one's price, and keep going round the circle, going back to guy1 after dealing with guy2 and guy3. Go to the dealer you actually want to buy it from last. Not sure if this works as well on a vehicle in short supply like the RAV, but it's how I would start.

 

[Guest]

I agree with the above -- ignore the fees and negotiate on the vehicle purchase price you want to pay. For me, it's easier to just focus on the purchase price (and then estimate taxes for your county and registration for your state, so that you know they are not inflating that somehow).

I'd start by pricing your car with options on Edmunds.com and then deciding what you're willing to pay over Edmunds' invoice. $500 over Edmunds is fantastic, $1000 is decent, IMO.

If you focus on the charges on "their" invoice, it will just muddle the negotiations.

 

[kendfw]

I agree with the above -- ignore the fees and negotiate on the vehicle purchase price you want to pay. For me, it's easier to just focus on the purchase price (and then estimate taxes for your county and registration for your state, so that you know they are not inflating that somehow).

I'd start by pricing your car with options on Edmunds.com and then deciding what you're willing to pay over Edmunds' invoice. $500 over Edmunds is fantastic, $1000 is decent, IMO.

If you focus on the charges on "their" invoice, it will just muddle the negotiations.

I agreed with kc456. If you negotiated from their invoice price, you'll end up paying a couple hundreds dollars that you may not intend to pay. Trust me! I just did mine that way. Best way to offer what you've in mind as a fair value and always take your time. If they're seem to waste your time, walk out and tell them you're busy and have them to call you.

good luck..

 

[Guest]

compared to edmunds.com

Here's how it break downs!1

26250 edmunds vs 27028 Dealer invoice

778 difference.

Someone said that it would be great if I can get my car for $500 over edmunds.

I thinking should never over commit. Always act as if i don't buy this car, no big deal cuase there is always another car. Try my best to bluff him. ( BUT secretly i realy want this one! It has every feature I want! No extras! and The Int color is gray instead of bisque!)

Should i start at the edmunds price and go up... or just offer right in the middle . 389 over edmunds invoice... and see if they budge?

a buddy of mine just bought a toyota truck.. and I really want to see his final invoice... to see if they took off the extra junk fees... He use to be a car salesman at a nissan delaer ship.. so He knows alot of their games!

Another plus on my side... Is the car won't be delivered until close to the end of the month!!! Once their backs against the wall, they''ll try to close every sale possible!!!!

 

[The G Man]

Edmunds' invoice doesn't include the Toyota advertising fee. Take the Edmunds' invoice price and add the advertising fee and add a $100 to $200 on top of that and that will be a fair price for both parties.

 

[Guest]

I agree with kc456. All that you should care about is what you pay on bottom line. I negotiated with the dealer what I wanted to pay on the bottom line. However they want to itemize their fees, I dont care; that's their problem. The more variables they throw at you, the more easily you can be confused. Turn it around on them, and just concentrate on one number: the bottom line.

 

[Guest]

AMEN 8)

 

[mkaresh]

As others have said, the holdback and finance reserve are paid by Toyota, and have no business being added to the invoice.

Advertising fees often are added to the invoice, but they're usually around $300. If you want to pay $x over invoice I'd still ignore them. Especially since this dealer is clearly full of it.

Destination charge is the only thing that the dealer gets absolutely no margin on--it all goes to the factory.