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When I fill up I usually fill up very slowly with the nozzle almost all the way out. Then I top off until I can't any more. That usually gets me past "F". However for this service I filled it up on the way to the dealer - I put the nozzle all the way in, full speed, and didn't top off. It was only about 7/8 full, and the dealer was able to add another .59 gallons during their service. Here is their documentation, if helpful:
Looks like you have a keeper dealer there!
 

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It looks the dealer might refuse to fix Canadian built RAV4H even if the car has the problem.
It does look that way. Anyone on the forum with a Canadian built RAV4H who has the problem and/or gotten the letter from Toyota? If so, have you tried to get it fixed?

I brought mine in on Monday, the clueless service advisor knew nothing about the fix and hadn't ordered the parts despite my having made the appointment last week. He then ordered them. I asked if they had to test to see if I had the problem. He said they already know I have it based on my previous reports. They got the parts yesterday, so I'm bringing it in this morning. Hopefully, I'll get the new parts installed today. Rav is Japan built.
 

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So it looks like it was only Ravs made in Japan have the issues which if I remember correctly was stated a year back when I first started to look at this forum about this problem. My VIN starts with 2T so I don't have the issue by the TSB and that is what the dealer told me. Has anyone with a VIN starting with 2T had the TSB performed?
 

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Dealer called and said it is verfied and they have a new tank and sender delivered in morning and should have it installed by afternoon, 2019XSERAVhybrid Vin begins with 2T. It seems fast so I need to verify it is a new part tank, they apparently had someone else in line also 2019ravh.
I also have Vin begins with 2T in Canada and waiting :(
 

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'19 Rav4 XLE Hybrid--Magnetic Gray Metallic
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I just called my Toyota Dealership (Hudson Toyota in Jersey City, NJ), and inquired about the gas tank replacement. They immediately informed me that my vehicle qualifies and they'd like me to bring the vehicle in for inspection. Following inspection, if Toyota approves the request, they will order the parts and install should take 2-3 hrs. They also mentioned that if the approved parts are in-stock, they'll perform the fix the same-day.

Special Instructions from the dealership: No items should be in the back seats, and trunk area. Gas tank should be filled 1/4 - 1/2.

My scheduled appt. is 11/30 for the inspection. Will report back once inspection is completed.
 

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The way I am understanding the procedures, the only way a owner can not get the parts they really need is by over filling the tank prior to bringing it in for repair. According to step 4 of the procedure, the Tech takes the car to a gas station and fills the car on full trigger and if the tank has less than 12.6 gallons in step 5, all three parts are replaced.

Now if my car has false readings and my normal 9 gallon fill from empty is really 12, then, I am good. Its not like they are replacing the tank with a larger tank. Now if they mis-diagnose the car and my fill from empty (after the fill light is on) is under 12 gallons, I will be back to the dealer. In other words, I don't want a new tank if I don't need one. The less they touch the better, but at the end of the day, I want to be able to fill 12 + gallons after the empty light comes on, not 9.

I also will test my reserve after the repair within reasonable limits, meaning, I will drive about 50-70 miles after the fuel light comes on after the repair while carrying spare fuel.
I agree -- for sure don't overfill the tank. That will send the diagnosis straight to step 7, at which point they'll drain 9.8 gal. And if you overfilled the light might not come on and they'll reject the procedure.

On the other hand, if you underfill then they just end up going to the gas station and topping off the tank anyway. So definitely err on the side of underfilling, just because then you'll get a bit of free gas!

To maximize the chances of the repair being accepted we want as little gas in the tank as possible when they hit step 7. That means you want Techstream to read EXACTLY 12.6. If it reads 12.5 then they'll go to the station and add a half gallon, and if that extra fuel is enough to prevent the low fuel light from coming on when they drain 9.8 gallons, you're out of luck.

Since most people don't have Techstream at home, an alternative method might be to bring your car in with the tank less than full by a gallon or so. That way, when they go to the station and fill up they'll only be filling the tank, not topping off an already "full" tank. If their fill is still less than 12.6 then a fix is guaranteed, and if it's more than 12.6 then it should still be less than if you filled it and they topped off the tank. Some dealerships aren't following the directions are are asking people to bring the car in with less fuel in the tank. Likely because that makes dropping the tank easier, but it's a good thing for the customer as well, I think.

End result: if they ask you to bring it in with the tank full, at a minimum make sure you're not overfilling. Fill at full speed to the first click and stop. And it's probably better to actually underfill by a gallon or more.
 

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Just got mine back last night. I suspect they have not changed the gas tank, even tough they claim they did. Brief background: they told me to bring the car to them with very little gas in it. I left the car with them on Monday at 8 AM, they called me to get it back on Tuesday at 10 AM. The paperwork says that they have replaced all 3 parts (gas tank, fuel sender and gasket), and it mentions RAV048, matching one of the codes listed in the first page of this thread. Fuel level on dashboard past Full (I was able to accomplish that before too, by slowly filling the tank), DTE 509 miles. Drove to the gas station, the fuel pump clicked after I pumped 0.8 gallons. Here comes the interesting part: the second click came after an additional .2 gallons, after that I was able to slowly pump for 5 minutes another 4.5 gallons DTE says now 529 miles.... I thought one of things the gas tank replacement will fix is the slow fill up issue. Am I wrong? Is there any way that I can check myself to see if they indeed replaced the tank? I did not take a look at the original tank before replacement, perhaps I can identify the new one (if there is indeed a new one installed) by some sort of part number sticker on it? I live in Michigan, last winter my hands almost froze during a blizzard while I was slowly topping off the gas tank.
I'm a patient and reasonable guy, but I am tired of going multiple times to the dealership during a pandemic: got the control arms recall done, 2 TSBs for the battery drain, and now the gas tank.
EDIT: I got under the car and confirmed that a new gas tank has been installed.
 

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Since most people don't have Techstream at home, an alternative method might be to bring your car in with the tank less than full by a gallon or so. That way, when they go to the station and fill up they'll only be filling the tank, not topping off an already "full" tank. If their fill is still less than 12.6 then a fix is guaranteed, and if it's more than 12.6 then it should still be less than if you filled it and they topped off the tank. Some dealerships aren't following the directions are are asking people to bring the car in with less fuel in the tank. Likely because that makes dropping the tank easier, but it's a good thing for the customer as well, I think.

End result: if they ask you to bring it in with the tank full, at a minimum make sure you're not overfilling. Fill at full speed to the first click and stop. And it's probably better to actually underfill by a gallon or more.

I agree with this. I filled up the tank before I went to the dealer (1/2 mile away) and the dealer was able to put another .59 gallons in. Obviously the car didn't use that much gas to travel less than a mile, so there must have been some settling or vapor dissipation that allowed them to get that extra gas in.
 

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Just got mine back last night. I suspect they have not changed the gas tank, even tough they claim they did. Brief background: they told me to bring the car to them with very little gas in it. I left the car with them on Monday at 8 AM, they called me to get it back on Tuesday at 10 AM. The paperwork says that they have replaced all 3 parts (gas tank, fuel sender and gasket), and it mentions RAV048, matching one of the codes listed in the first page of this thread. Fuel level on dashboard past Full (I was able to accomplish that before too, by slowly filling the tank), DTE 509 miles. Drove to the gas station, the fuel pump clicked after I pumped 0.8 gallons. Here comes the interesting part: the second click came after an additional .2 gallons, after that I was able to slowly pump for 5 minutes another 4.5 gallons DTE says now 529 miles.... I thought one of things the gas tank replacement will fix is the slow fill up issue. Am I wrong? Is there any way that I can check myself to see if they indeed replaced the tank? I did not take a look at the original tank before replacement, perhaps I can identify the new one (if there is indeed a new one installed) by some sort of part number sticker on it? I live in Michigan, last winter my hands almost froze during a blizzard while I was slowly topping off the gas tank.
I'm a patient and reasonable guy, but I am tired of going multiple times to the dealership during a pandemic: got the control arms recall done, 2 TSBs for the battery drain, and now the gas tank.
Someone mentioned here that they were going to mark their tank before taking it in for replacement. I might do the same thing.
 

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Just got mine back last night. I suspect they have not changed the gas tank, even tough they claim they did. Brief background: they told me to bring the car to them with very little gas in it. I left the car with them on Monday at 8 AM, they called me to get it back on Tuesday at 10 AM. The paperwork says that they have replaced all 3 parts (gas tank, fuel sender and gasket), and it mentions RAV048, matching one of the codes listed in the first page of this thread. Fuel level on dashboard past Full (I was able to accomplish that before too, by slowly filling the tank), DTE 509 miles. Drove to the gas station, the fuel pump clicked after I pumped 0.8 gallons. Here comes the interesting part: the second click came after an additional .2 gallons, after that I was able to slowly pump for 5 minutes another 4.5 gallons DTE says now 529 miles.... I thought one of things the gas tank replacement will fix is the slow fill up issue. Am I wrong? Is there any way that I can check myself to see if they indeed replaced the tank? I did not take a look at the original tank before replacement, perhaps I can identify the new one (if there is indeed a new one installed) by some sort of part number sticker on it? I live in Michigan, last winter my hands almost froze during a blizzard while I was slowly topping off the gas tank.
I'm a patient and reasonable guy, but I am tired of going multiple times to the dealership during a pandemic: got the control arms recall done, 2 TSBs for the battery drain, and now the gas tank.
So, I have a theory here.

First, it seems to be part of the design that the tank will be a little less than full when filling normally. So if you start with an empty tank and fill at full speed to the first click, when you're done the tank won't have 14.5 gallons in it but something slightly less. Maybe something like 13.5 to 14.0 gallons. A second or third top-off will add the rest of the gas and get you to 14.5 gallons. I'm guessing this is what you saw when it took another 0.8 gallons and then another 0.2 gallons.

This part is "normal" -- I'm not a fan of the behavior, since most other cars don't do this, but it seems to be allowed by all the relevant regulations and standards. Regardless, it's not going to be fixed. You can choose to ignore it or just give the pump an extra squeeze, it's up to you.

Ok, now for the second part. All fuel tanks are designed with "vapor headspace" -- an amount of volume in the tank that's not intended to be full of liquid fuel, but gaseous vapors. This is there for proper operation of all the different parts of the tank (especially emissions control, but I think it also has something to do with thermal expansion and a few other things -- ask an expert for details, not me).

When you slow-fill the tank, you're actually filling up a volume that was never intended to be filled with liquid fuel. That's why it's hard to get in -- the system is designed for the fuel to back up the filler tube and shut off the pump instead of filling up past the designed capacity.

Notice how your DTE didn't rise by the expected amount. It only went up by 20 miles (not including the distance to the gas station), even though you added several gallons. This tells me that the fuel sending unit (which measures the fuel level) is saturated, meaning it reached its maximum ability to measure fuel. It probably reached this limit from the first gallon you added (see above). After all, why design the sending unit to measure the fuel level where no fuel is expected to be?

I suspect there was never a slow fill problem in the first place. Instead, it was always a measurement problem, with the deformed tank and sending unit causing the fuel gauge to misread the fuel level. But people believed the gauge and thought that the tank wasn't full and forced more fuel in anyway.

What's a bit surprising to me, then, is just how much vapor headspace there seems to be. Multiple gallons worth. 4.5 gallons from what you said (though maybe only 3.5 if you're including that first gallon you pumped in). That's a lot of room, far more than I expected. That's the one problem with my speculations.

The end result here, though, is that what you described could easily be within the realm of normal behavior.

Here's how you will know for sure. Drive your car until the low fuel light comes on and then immediately fill it up. (Note to help with timing this: the light comes on at about 30 miles DTE.) Don't do anything special, just fill it like you hope it should work. Thoughtlessly jam in the nozzle, fill on full speed, let it shut off automatically, and leave it at that.

Toyota claims the low fuel light comes on with 2.2 gallons remaining and that the tank holds 14.5 gallons. Therefore, we would expect to get up to 12.3 gallons of gas at this point. But see above -- it might be a bit short of that still and be "normal." I would say anything less than 11.3 gallons is a clear indication that something is still wrong. The fuel gauge should read at or above F regardless.

If you then give the pump two more attempts like you did before (on the slowest setting until automatic shut-off), it should accept something closer to the expected 12.3 gallons. Everything here is approximate, mind you -- there's always some slop due to thermal expansion of the tank and variances in the how the fuel is measured, etc., so don't expect EXACTLY 12.3. Whether you want to always bother with this last step (which goes against the owner's manual but is part of the SAE standard), is up to you.

And last, there probably is a part number on the fuel tank somewhere. The question is if you'll be able to see it without removing the tank itself. I don't know the answer to that.
 

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So it looks like it was only Ravs made in Japan have the issues which if I remember correctly was stated a year back when I first started to look at this forum about this problem. My VIN starts with 2T so I don't have the issue by the TSB and that is what the dealer told me. Has anyone with a VIN starting with 2T had the TSB performed?
Yes, mine is starts with 2T3LWRFV2LW and I had the TSb performed for the gas tank, and two other parts. My dealership didn't mention anything about my car not being included when I described the symptoms. They just took care of it, no diagnostic tests or anything, just trusted my word.
 

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Just got mine back last night. I suspect they have not changed the gas tank, even tough they claim they did. Brief background: they told me to bring the car to them with very little gas in it. I left the car with them on Monday at 8 AM, they called me to get it back on Tuesday at 10 AM. The paperwork says that they have replaced all 3 parts (gas tank, fuel sender and gasket), and it mentions RAV048, matching one of the codes listed in the first page of this thread. Fuel level on dashboard past Full (I was able to accomplish that before too, by slowly filling the tank), DTE 509 miles. Drove to the gas station, the fuel pump clicked after I pumped 0.8 gallons. Here comes the interesting part: the second click came after an additional .2 gallons, after that I was able to slowly pump for 5 minutes another 4.5 gallons DTE says now 529 miles.... I thought one of things the gas tank replacement will fix is the slow fill up issue. Am I wrong? Is there any way that I can check myself to see if they indeed replaced the tank? I did not take a look at the original tank before replacement, perhaps I can identify the new one (if there is indeed a new one installed) by some sort of part number sticker on it? I live in Michigan, last winter my hands almost froze during a blizzard while I was slowly topping off the gas tank.
I'm a patient and reasonable guy, but I am tired of going multiple times to the dealership during a pandemic: got the control arms recall done, 2 TSBs for the battery drain, and now the gas tank.
Not sure how far you've driven or in what conditions since you got the car back. I verified they swapped my tank by looking under the car. The tank itself was super clean compared to the rest of the bottom of the car. If you look under just in front of your rear driverside wheel you should be able to see where the fill line connects to the tank.
 

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I thought one of things the gas tank replacement will fix is the slow fill up issue. Am I wrong?
Actually, I believe that Toyota never acknowledged a slow fill up issue. They are fixing the fuel sender issue that resulted in the low fuel light coming on with more than the expected 2.2 gallons in reserve.

After the fix, you should be able to put in more fuel to the first click than you used to but not as much as you may hope because Toyota claims that it is normal for there to be a significant air (vapor) space when a tank is "full". Fair or not, Toyota counts that space as part of the 14.5 gallons

When you put in the 4.5 gallons and the DTE barely went up, the likely explanation is that you put fuel into the vapor space.

So, is there a separate early shut off issue causing a larger than normal air space that you can make up for by a slow fill? Maybe, but if so Toyota is not addressing that.

So, relax, wait until you have driven enough for the low fuel light to come on and then fill to the first click and report back how much fuel it took.



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So, I have a theory here.

First, it seems to be part of the design that the tank will be a little less than full when filling normally. So if you start with an empty tank and fill at full speed to the first click, when you're done the tank won't have 14.5 gallons in it but something slightly less. Maybe something like 13.5 to 14.0 gallons. A second or third top-off will add the rest of the gas and get you to 14.5 gallons. I'm guessing this is what you saw when it took another 0.8 gallons and then another 0.2 gallons.

This part is "normal" -- I'm not a fan of the behavior, since most other cars don't do this, but it seems to be allowed by all the relevant regulations and standards. Regardless, it's not going to be fixed. You can choose to ignore it or just give the pump an extra squeeze, it's up to you.

Ok, now for the second part. All fuel tanks are designed with "vapor headspace" -- an amount of volume in the tank that's not intended to be full of liquid fuel, but gaseous vapors. This is there for proper operation of all the different parts of the tank (especially emissions control, but I think it also has something to do with thermal expansion and a few other things -- ask an expert for details, not me).

When you slow-fill the tank, you're actually filling up a volume that was never intended to be filled with liquid fuel. That's why it's hard to get in -- the system is designed for the fuel to back up the filler tube and shut off the pump instead of filling up past the designed capacity.

Notice how your DTE didn't rise by the expected amount. It only went up by 20 miles (not including the distance to the gas station), even though you added several gallons. This tells me that the fuel sending unit (which measures the fuel level) is saturated, meaning it reached its maximum ability to measure fuel. It probably reached this limit from the first gallon you added (see above). After all, why design the sending unit to measure the fuel level where no fuel is expected to be?

I suspect there was never a slow fill problem in the first place. Instead, it was always a measurement problem, with the deformed tank and sending unit causing the fuel gauge to misread the fuel level. But people believed the gauge and thought that the tank wasn't full and forced more fuel in anyway.

What's a bit surprising to me, then, is just how much vapor headspace there seems to be. Multiple gallons worth. 4.5 gallons from what you said (though maybe only 3.5 if you're including that first gallon you pumped in). That's a lot of room, far more than I expected. That's the one problem with my speculations.

The end result here, though, is that what you described could easily be within the realm of normal behavior.

Here's how you will know for sure. Drive your car until the low fuel light comes on and then immediately fill it up. (Note to help with timing this: the light comes on at about 30 miles DTE.) Don't do anything special, just fill it like you hope it should work. Thoughtlessly jam in the nozzle, fill on full speed, let it shut off automatically, and leave it at that.

Toyota claims the low fuel light comes on with 2.2 gallons remaining and that the tank holds 14.5 gallons. Therefore, we would expect to get up to 12.3 gallons of gas at this point. But see above -- it might be a bit short of that still and be "normal." I would say anything less than 11.3 gallons is a clear indication that something is still wrong. The fuel gauge should read at or above F regardless.

If you then give the pump two more attempts like you did before (on the slowest setting until automatic shut-off), it should accept something closer to the expected 12.3 gallons. Everything here is approximate, mind you -- there's always some slop due to thermal expansion of the tank and variances in the how the fuel is measured, etc., so don't expect EXACTLY 12.3. Whether you want to always bother with this last step (which goes against the owner's manual but is part of the SAE standard), is up to you.

And last, there probably is a part number on the fuel tank somewhere. The question is if you'll be able to see it without removing the tank itself. I don't know the answer to that.
Thanks for taking the time to write in detail what you think is the problem. I agree with your thoughts, and I will make sure to comeback on this thread and give an update next time I'll fill up the car.
with gas.
 

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Not sure how far you've driven or in what conditions since you got the car back. I verified they swapped my tank by looking under the car. The tank itself was super clean compared to the rest of the bottom of the car. If you look under just in front of your rear driverside wheel you should be able to see where the fill line connects to the tank.
Thanks for the tip. I just looked under the car and confirmed what you just said: the tank has been replaced. I should have known better before inquiring on this forum, since I do myself a lot of maintenance work on my cars.
 

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Actually, I believe that Toyota never acknowledged a slow fill up issue. They are fixing the fuel sender issue that resulted in the low fuel light coming on with more than the expected 2.2 gallons in reserve.

After the fix, you should be able to put in more fuel to the first click than you used to but not as much as you may hope because Toyota still claims that it is normal for there to be a significant air (vapor) space when a tank is "full".

So, is there a separate early shut off issue that you can make up for by a slow fill? Maybe but if so Toyota is not addressing that.

Dealers do cheat and rip people off but with a Toyota sponsored repair I think it is highly unlikely that they wouldn't put the new tank in.

Also, when you put in 4.5 gallons and the DTE barely went up, the likely explanation is that you filled the tank beyond design, risking damaging your charcoal canister.

So, relax, wait until you have driven enough for the low fuel light to come on and then fill to the first click and report back how much fuel it took.



.
You are probably right. I'll report back when I'll refill the gas tank.
 

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So are we sure that it's not a gas-gauge problem? I don't hear many people running their RAV4s until they run out of gas (not recommended, of course), and if that is not done, then we can't know if it's NOT a gas-gauge problem. My theory is that the tank is nowhere near empty when the gauge says it is, and that it is near full when it says it is not. So the whole gauge is just shifted/skewed by 2-4 gallons: "2-4 gallons below full" on the gauge means full; empty/near-empty means "2-4 gallons left in the tank". Shift the meter in the gauge and all will be fine. Is there anything to prove that this is an incorrect theory?
 

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So are we sure that it's not a gas-gauge problem? I don't hear many people running their RAV4s until they run out of gas (not recommended, of course), and if that is not done, then we can't know if it's NOT a gas-gauge problem. My theory is that the tank is nowhere near empty when the gauge says it is, and that it is near full when it says it is not. So the whole gauge is just shifted/skewed by 2-4 gallons: "2-4 gallons below full" on the gauge means full; empty/near-empty means "2-4 gallons left in the tank". Shift the meter in the gauge and all will be fine. Is there anything to prove that this is an incorrect theory?
Actually, The consensus is that your theory is correct. That is Toyota's stand and that is what they are fixing. A couple of people have demonstrated that the reserve is excessive by driving well over 100 miles on reserve.

The question is whether there is another problem with the pump shutting off too soon due to the unique to North America vapor recovery system. that could explain why vehicles in North America have the problem while those elsewhere do not.

My Rav is in the shop as I write this. I'm looking forward to seeing how much more I can put in the tank from when the low fuel light comes on.
 

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Maybe there is a feature in the emission system to close off the vapor system as the level rises. Similarly the reason for that protective cover over the fuel door switch which had a TSB on some Toyota models because the pump was shutting off early if you hit it with the pump handle. If the fuel float has a input to the vapor system maybe that causes a filling issue that is fixed by the new TSB
 
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