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Hi all,

I was wondering if the Rav4 V6 needs premium unleaded. When i looked at the engine specs for the V6 in one of the sites it (forget which one) it said the recommended fuel was Premium unleaded. But according to this

http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2006toyotakit/2006Rav4_s.pdf

spec sheet from toyota, it is recommended to use regular unleaded (87 octane). Am I missing something in this?

Thanks
K
 

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You can run 87 octane or anything above that. The computer can detect knock and change fuel maps and timing to compensate for lower octane fuel, so you are not gonna damage it. BUT most likely, the 269 hp was achieved using high octane fuel. Using lower octane you may give up a few hp... modern technology.. :)
 
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actually no, 269hp figure is done with 87 fuel. If you use premium, you will get 280hp. 87 is "reccomended" by Toyota so you will have no issues there.

Avalon's engine was down rated to 268hp from 280 since together with new SAE specs, Toyota decided to test all of their cars on 87 (and Lexus on Premium).
 

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spwolfx said:
actually no, 269hp figure is done with 87 fuel. If you use premium, you will get 280hp. 87 is "reccomended" by Toyota so you will have no issues there.

Avalon's engine was down rated to 268hp from 280 since together with new SAE specs, Toyota decided to test all of their cars on 87 (and Lexus on Premium).
Ahhhh!! That makes more sense then, that the IS350 squeezes out 306HP out of its identical V6 with little or no major modifications. Thanks spwolfx! 8)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
karrock said:
spwolfx said:
actually no, 269hp figure is done with 87 fuel. If you use premium, you will get 280hp. 87 is "reccomended" by Toyota so you will have no issues there.

Avalon's engine was down rated to 268hp from 280 since together with new SAE specs, Toyota decided to test all of their cars on 87 (and Lexus on Premium).
Ahhhh!! That makes more sense then, that the IS350 squeezes out 306HP out of its identical V6 with little or no major modifications. Thanks spwolfx! 8)
actually, IS350 has dual injection system both port and direct, which is why it gains extra power from 280 in Avalon with premium. It is very advanced engine, with technology first seen in IS350.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
flyingn said:
are you saying it has TWO injectors per cylinder? Wow, did not know that..

Frank
You can find out more here:
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/01-2006/1-114-1-17.pdf

You can also find comparison of 3.5l V6 engines in sedans, featuring 3.5 V6 from Avalon (as in Rav4) and the fact that it has the biggest power density on the market within its own price class.
 

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spwolfx said:
actually, IS350 has dual injection system both port and direct, which is why it gains extra power from 280 in Avalon with premium. It is very advanced engine, with technology first seen in IS350.
Still... The stretch to gap 269HP to 306HP without the use of a turbo/supercharger or much higher compression ratio is much more believable now that the gap has shrunk to 280-306.
 

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:?: You mean if I put premium gas in my V6 I'll be able to boost the HP up +/- 10, I never thought it would push it up that much. Do you know if there would be any harmful long term effects to using premium all the time. The cost of the gas is not an issue for me, like voiding the warrenty.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Actually, you'll probably get closer to 275hp on 91 octane.

The new testing procedure changed more than just requiring the test to be run with the minimum recommended fuel. It set requirements for oil quantity and what accessories must be on the engine during testing. Probably some other things, too.

Why do I say 275? Based on Toyota's 3.3L. With that engine, about half the change from the old to new tests was due to octane. Here are the numbers from the 3.3L:

Old SAE J1349 (presumably with 91+ octane): 230 hp
New SAE J1349 with 87 octane: 215 hp (Toyota Sienna)
New SAE J1349 with 91 octane: 223 hp (Lexus RX330)

So, about 1/2 of the difference is due to octane differences and 1/2 is due to "other" factors.
 

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Pardon my ignorance here, but I understood octane to be a measure of resistance to knock or ping, and that higher octane fuel would not increase hp.
 

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go 5 hole said:
Pardon my ignorance here, but I understood octane to be a measure of resistance to knock or ping, and that higher octane fuel would not increase hp.
I think that the higher octane allows the engine to adjust the timing which results in greater power (if lower octane gas is used the engine senses knock and retards the timing).
 

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McSwine said:
go 5 hole said:
Pardon my ignorance here, but I understood octane to be a measure of resistance to knock or ping, and that higher octane fuel would not increase hp.
I think that the higher octane allows the engine to adjust the timing which results in greater power (if lower octane gas is used the engine senses knock and retards the timing).
I agree. Therefore, getting more horsepower from an engine by simply increasing the octane level of the fuel means the the computer of the car is retarding timing because a knock sensor is detecting detonation. If no knock is present, increasing the octane level of the fuel would not yield any hp increase, other factors being equal. It seems to me that claiming an increase in hp based upon a change in fuel octane is unreasonable.
 

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The RAV4's v6 is a high compression engine, it has a 10.8 to 1 ratio. I would imagine it would benefit some from high octane fuel, by how much, thats hard to say.
 

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OK OK I interestingly read all this stuff, it provided a great education if nothing else, as well. BUT can we please get a DEFINITIVE answer here? See if we can't get an automotive engineer on line. to cut through all this stuff. I have a few weeks before my V6 is on the ground. I really want to push the HP but don't want to waste my money.
 

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inlets said:
BUT can we please get a DEFINITIVE answer here? See if we can't get an automotive engineer on line. to cut through all this stuff.
How about "Uncle Sam" :lol:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I'm almost positive that ALL the Toyota V6 car engines are designed to run best on 91 octane. The computer retards the ignition when it detects knock (like with 87 octane) which reduces output. If the engine were desinged to run on 87, then you're right, puting 91 in would have no benefit.

A definitive answer, I bet, is as close as an owner's manual. I bet it has similar wording as that in my Camry 3.0 V6, which is something to the effect that the minimum recommended octane is 87, but for "maximum performance" use 91.
 
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