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Hi, I have a 2017 Toyota RAV4 Limited Hybrid we bought over 3 months ago. I found out a dealer put on the Pulse by Safety First. The products webpage is this: https://www.pulseprotects.com. Its a module that makes the 3rd brake light pulsate the first second when the light comes on. Then it goes solid. After talking to 2 different dealers, additional PA inspection facilities, two police officers, and internet searches, opinions are varied. Everyone said legal except the 2 police officers. Opinions are all over the place online. The companies claim is that its done within the confines of the steady burning laws. The original equipment modifications I not to sure how that would fly if they want to get you on that. So what everyones opinion here, leave on or take off? And lastly, how do I get to it to take off? Basically give me instructions on how to change a light bulb in the 3rd brake light is what I would need.
 

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Some areas outlaw lights that blink. But AFAIK, a light that "pulses" is legal in all areas.
In any case you'd be hard pressed to find an example of anyone ever being written up in one of these.
 

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Without being a JA about it, it would help to ask the police which law (bylaw, state, etc) prohibits this. If it’s prohibited in your jurisdiction, the dealer should not be installing this, and would be liable for the cost of its removal.


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Discussion Starter #5
Without being a JA about it, it would help to ask the police which law (bylaw, state, etc) prohibits this. If it’s prohibited in your jurisdiction, the dealer should not be installing this, and would be liable for the cost of its removal.


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Yes, I have asked the local police which law, all they did was broadly gave me this: https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter153/chap153toc.html. My only guess it comes down to is that they have to be steady burning. I was disappointed with the state police, because I thought they be more professional, but all they told its illegal, because PennDOT says its not original equipment. Didn't quote a specific law. I know what you mean by not being a JA, you have to be polite, don't argue, and keep your cool. But certainly, they didn't quote a specific law, they would have to if they were to issue a ticket. It may seem to be a gray area, but needs a court predenence that officer may hesitate to be the one doing it.

And about the dealer that installed it was not the selling dealer. They are an out of state dealer, but not very far from PA. I called that dealer and they told me they have sold the device to PA owners. They gave me the agents number who happened to live in PA and I called him, and he told me he had them on his vehicles for 4-5 years and yet to be pulled over.
 

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Again: You'll be hard pressed to find a single example of anyone getting ticketed for this. And if you did, its likely a judge would toss it out if you fought it.

This is a good example of over-thinking. Drive it and be happy that you're more visible than you would be otherwise.
 

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Again: You'll be hard pressed to find a single example of anyone getting ticketed for this. And if you did, its likely a judge would toss it out if you fought it.

This is a good example of over-thinking. Drive it and be happy that you're more visible than you would be otherwise.
So what would you have to say to have the judge toss it out? What arguments?
 

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So what would you have to say to have the judge toss it out? What arguments?


Check the back of a fire truck or ambulance next time one brakes in front of you. Our city has this feature on its EMS vehicles which are supplied by American manufacturers. If the EMS in your area has it too, a ticket could not stand


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Check the back of a fire truck or ambulance next time one brakes in front of you. Our city has this feature on its EMS vehicles which are supplied by American manufacturers. If the EMS in your area has it too, a ticket could not stand


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I don't think that would make a good argument. Two wrongs don't make one right. My co-worker who is a volunteer fireman, told me there fire engine does that. But you know and I know, police use selective enforcement(look the other way for there buddies, first responders, municipal employees, and anybody they would let go that they wouldn't on the general public). I even heard a police chief say he won't bother first responders and municipal workers when the area had a surprise posted weight on a bridge, that went from nothing to 15 tons.
 

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Check the back of a fire truck or ambulance next time one brakes in front of you. Our city has this feature on its EMS vehicles which are supplied by American manufacturers. If the EMS in your area has it too, a ticket could not stand


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Very likely wouldn't work. Emergency vehicles generally are exempt from many regulations which apply to ordinary vehicles.
 

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Guess things may be a little different for you than we’d have here in Canada, but my line of reasoning may work only in my own head too. In my experience in Ontario for minor equipment type infractions (coloured plate guards, window tint levels, etc) an Aw Shucks attitude with the officer at the side of the road can go a long way. On the other hand, the law states “steady burning” which it is under any application after the initial split second flicker. If one was to be pulled over (per rdgrimes above) attitude and discretion would go a LONG way, unless someone has a burr under the saddle that won’t go away.


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Discussion Starter #12
They aren't exempt from all regulations, but quite a few. They also have regulations for there emergency vehicle lighting, its not a do as you feel like. But as far as brake lights go, they have to follow the same laws on them. I looked over some of PA's laws regarding emergency vehicle lighting, I have not thoroughly read over them, I did read they can have flashing headlights, but didn't see anything they could do different with there stop(brake) lights. But we all know that cops would sooner pick on a citizen vs. an emergency vehicle. They see it as there serving, plus they have so many exemption it would require then to look it up to see where they have it or not. And lastly, a greater chance of bad public relations and press if they do write up an emergency vehicle.
 

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Guess things may be a little different for you than we’d have here in Canada, but my line of reasoning may work only in my own head too. In my experience in Ontario for minor equipment type infractions (coloured plate guards, window tint levels, etc) an Aw Shucks attitude with the officer at the side of the road can go a long way. On the other hand, the law states “steady burning” which it is under any application after the initial split second flicker. If one was to be pulled over (per rdgrimes above) attitude and discretion would go a LONG way, unless someone has a burr under the saddle that won’t go away.


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Its the same way here too that attitude makes a difference. When I asked the police, I was vary polite to them. With the state police I told him that 2 inspection garages told me they would pass them, and he just stuck by his word. So I said Thank and goodbye. I know the rules, be polite, keep your cool, and don't argue. But keeping them in check doesn't always get desirable results either. If you are courteous to the cop and he returns it to you, but feels right about it, he likely just order a fix it ticket, prove to them in a couple days that its fixed, and no fine. If that were the case for me, I would just do that, since it wouldn't cost me anything, unless the owner of Pulse would stand behind me, which I won't count on that either. If the owner of Pulse feel so right about it, they should fight it for me, I won't do it for them, since I didn't pay extra for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I know we got talking about the legal part and the police about this. But I would like instructions on how to remove this device. Basically, what I gather is if anyone knows how to change a light bulb in the 3rd brake light, I like those instruction please.
 

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I see these flashing brake lights on motorcycles all the time here. Same for meter reader vehicles, who stop a lot. Also our school buses have flashing white strobe lights on the back just as attention getters. The cops leave them all alone.
 

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Check the back of a fire truck or ambulance next time one brakes in front of you. Our city has this feature on its EMS vehicles which are supplied by American manufacturers. If the EMS in your area has it too, a ticket could not stand
I would not bet a court date on that claim.
 

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[...] But I would like instructions on how to remove this device. Basically, what I gather is if anyone knows how to change a light bulb in the 3rd brake light, I like those instruction please.
I'm not confident enough in wiring to do it myself.

I do know there are a couple different types of these things - one is programmable by jumpers and another is not. Neither has an on/off switch. Both are spliced into the wiring. It would be best to have an expert look at the wiring because simply removing the little box will likely disable the whole light.

We have a few electricians here. Maybe one can help us.
 

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I'm not confident enough in wiring to do it myself.

I do know there are a couple different types of these things - one is programmable by jumpers and another is not. Neither has an on/off switch. Both are spliced into the wiring. It would be best to have an expert look at the wiring because simply removing the little box will likely disable the whole light.

We have a few electricians here. Maybe one can help us.
Wouldn't the 3rd brake light be simple as just a hot wire and neutral wire going to it?
 

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Hi, I have a 2017 Toyota RAV4 Limited Hybrid we bought over 3 months ago. I found out a dealer put on the Pulse by Safety First. The products webpage is this: https://www.pulseprotects.com. Its a module that makes the 3rd brake light pulsate the first second when the light comes on. Then it goes solid. After talking to 2 different dealers, additional PA inspection facilities, two police officers, and internet searches, opinions are varied. Everyone said legal except the 2 police officers. Opinions are all over the place online. The companies claim is that its done within the confines of the steady burning laws. The original equipment modifications I not to sure how that would fly if they want to get you on that. So what everyones opinion here, leave on or take off? And lastly, how do I get to it to take off? Basically give me instructions on how to change a light bulb in the 3rd brake light is what I would need.
I just installed one on my '17 RAV Limited and love it...Should be on all vehicles for safety..Your certainly more alert when you see something flashing...I'd leave it on for sure and if your ever stopped claiming its a violation, just agree and drive off..I'd bet you would not be written a citation...They only flash for less that a second then go steady red....I even bought 2 more to hand out to a couple of my kids.
 
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