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If we can’t trust George “geohot” Hotz, who can we trust?
It has been tested with over 100,000 miles before it was even brought to market, so know the facts first. Users contribute to the data that is used to make it smarter.
If someone isn’t comfortable with that, then don’t use it. Simple.

I never said to trust George Hotz. I just think it’s cool what he invented. People trust Google all the time; and yet they make all their money on everyone’s data and listen to conversations in your home through the Google Home device. Same as Amazon Alexa. Plenty of people don’t complain about that. They want their home connected to a ton of ‘smart devices’. I’m just fine turning the lights on and off and changing my thermostat by myself!
 

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It has been tested with over 100,000 miles before it was even brought to market, so know the facts first. Users contribute to the data that is used to make it smarter.
If someone isn’t comfortable with that, then don’t use it. Simple.

I never said to trust George Hotz. I just think it’s cool what he invented. People trust Google all the time; and yet they make all their money on everyone’s data and listen to conversations in your home through the Google Home device. Same as Amazon Alexa. Plenty of people don’t complain about that. They want their home connected to a ton of ‘smart devices’. I’m just fine turning the lights on and off and changing my thermostat by myself!
When we’re talking about driving a 4000 pound hunk of steel and plastic at 75 MPH alongside other drivers of dubious skill and intelligence, and factoring in weather, road hazards, etc and potential liability, I turn VERY conservative.
 

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Scares the hell outta me that something this untested and “open source” is going to be used for who knows what!
If people don’t like anything open source, then people shouldn’t use any Android device. Otherwise, that makes someone hypocritical because Google does the same stuff.
 

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NC '19 Rav4 Hybrid Limited, Entune 3.0, Adaptive Headlights, Advanced Technology Package
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It has nothing to do with open source.

It has to do with how well any system works. Tesla has hundreds of million miles of data and still ran into some cars in the past week.

I prefer to keep my attention on the road and my hands on the wheel even while using LKA, cruise, etc.

My only problem with the Toyota system is when approaching an interchange, the driver in front of me starts to turn off and slows down in what is now the lane next to me and the system tries to slow me down. I've learned to anticipate it and temporarily override the system.
 

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When we’re talking about driving a 4000 pound hunk of steel and plastic at 75 MPH alongside other drivers of dubious skill and intelligence, and factoring in weather, road hazards, etc and potential liability, I turn VERY conservative.
Sure, a lot of people would. The technology isn’t going to stop, and will improve. At some point, people won’t be driving probably. Like it or not; it’s the way cars are headed. People didn’t trust regular cruise control when it was first invented, either. Just saying. Things change.
 

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It has nothing to do with open source.

It has to do with how well any system works. Tesla has hundreds of million miles of data and still ran into some cars in the past week.

I prefer to keep my attention on the road and my hands on the wheel even while using LKA, cruise, etc.

My only problem with the Toyota system is when approaching an interchange, the driver in front of me starts to turn off and slows down in what is now the lane next to me and the system tries to slow me down. I've learned to anticipate it and temporarily override the system.
I completely agree! People are attacking like trolls just because I said that OpenPilot seems cool. The company themselves even states that it does NOT replace paying attention. If you aren’t, the car will actually come to a stop until you take over and prove that you are staying aware of your surroundings.

Other people stated that they didn’t like open source because they don’t know what was being done with the data and mocking me saying that I guess we should all trust George Hotz. I never said anything like that.

The bottom line is nothing replaces common sense as a driver, no matter what safety assist feature someone chooses to use.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I find Toyota's stock system does quite well.
I actually use mine quite a lot, and I’m getting used to some of its quirks, so now that I know the bottle trick I think I’ll like it a lot more.

I use back roads to drive about an hour to my sister’s house once a week, and for much of the drive the cruise control works great to make a more relaxing drive, especially if I’ve got a slowpoke ahead of me. I’m not sure if Open Pilot could do much better there, other than slowing on some of the tighter curves.
 

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I run OpenPilot on my 2020 RAV4 Hybrid.

Install was easy, and it functions pretty smoothly.

I use it mostly on long drives on the highway.

It really isn't a completely autonomous system. It's basically an enhanced version of the adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist that is already on the car. It has less "nags" and more range than stock. The car performs well in stop and go without any annoying beeps or warnings.

Whenever I have used it I am ready to take control at any point.

There are limitations to the system.

There's are quite a few ntersections near me where not only are there faded/not visible lane lines (required), but also the far side of the intersection is laterally offset (as in you have to steer to the left or right as you pass through the intersection.) OpenPilot is unable to handle these situations gracefully. On stock OpenPilot, so long as you do not touch the gas or brake, you can override the steering (make a steering correction) and the system will remain engaged.

The current release does not adjust speed for road curvature, road signs, stop for rail road crossings, or stop for stop lights or stop signs. There are alternative versions of code that have these features available, but they're considered experimental.

It does stop for radar detected lead cars while driving in traffic, and will do so all the way down to 0mph and resume without having to disengage/reengage. (True for the 19/20 RAV4, other models have some limitations around speed range, or having the system unable to resume from a full stop.)

In traffic, I've been overtaken on the highway by other vehicles that are too close to my lane. This has happened with OP enabled, and I will simply grab the wheel and nudge my vehicle over in the lane to give me some distance. I can do this without disengaging.

I look at this as basically enhanced cruise control. The current revision can currently look straight out of the front of the vehicle and utilize the factory radar. So the system must be driven with these limitations in mind. It cannot see behind the vehicle or left/right. Blind spot monitoring signals are available but insufficient by themselves for safe lane changes. If a vehicle was rapidly approaching your vehicle from the rear in an adjacent lane, the BSM would only alert you while it is in the blind spot, not from 40 feet behind you.

Overall I like the system and am looking forward to future iterations.

It is not for everyone. As easy as they make it to use, it still requires some technical knowledge. The more technical you are, the more interesting the device becomes.

Do not buy it if you're expecting it to drive you on local streets from your home to the store, or if you intend on using it irresponsibly like those videos of people sleeping behind the wheel on the freeway.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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I run OpenPilot on my 2020 RAV4 Hybrid.

Install was easy, and it functions pretty smoothly.

I use it mostly on long drives on the highway.

It really isn't a completely autonomous system. It's basically an enhanced version of the adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist that is already on the car. It has less "nags" and more range than stock. The car performs well in stop and go without any annoying beeps or warnings.

Whenever I have used it I am ready to take control at any point.

There are limitations to the system.

There's are quite a few ntersections near me where not only are there faded/not visible lane lines (required), but also the far side of the intersection is laterally offset (as in you have to steer to the left or right as you pass through the intersection.) OpenPilot is unable to handle these situations gracefully. On stock OpenPilot, so long as you do not touch the gas or brake, you can override the steering (make a steering correction) and the system will remain engaged.

The current release does not adjust speed for road curvature, road signs, stop for rail road crossings, or stop for stop lights or stop signs. There are alternative versions of code that have these features available, but they're considered experimental.

It does stop for radar detected lead cars while driving in traffic, and will do so all the way down to 0mph and resume without having to disengage/reengage. (True for the 19/20 RAV4, other models have some limitations around speed range, or having the system unable to resume from a full stop.)

In traffic, I've been overtaken on the highway by other vehicles that are too close to my lane. This has happened with OP enabled, and I will simply grab the wheel and nudge my vehicle over in the lane to give me some distance. I can do this without disengaging.

I look at this as basically enhanced cruise control. The current revision can currently look straight out of the front of the vehicle and utilize the factory radar. So the system must be driven with these limitations in mind. It cannot see behind the vehicle or left/right. Blind spot monitoring signals are available but insufficient by themselves for safe lane changes. If a vehicle was rapidly approaching your vehicle from the rear in an adjacent lane, the BSM would only alert you while it is in the blind spot, not from 40 feet behind you.

Overall I like the system and am looking forward to future iterations.

It is not for everyone. As easy as they make it to use, it still requires some technical knowledge. The more technical you are, the more interesting the device becomes.

Do not buy it if you're expecting it to drive you on local streets from your home to the store, or if you intend on using it irresponsibly like those videos of people sleeping behind the wheel on the freeway.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
THANK YOU!!!! That’s all I was trying to say, before the sarcastic comments started flying. Finally a voice of reason. ?
 

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Sure, a lot of people would. The technology isn’t going to stop, and will improve. At some point, people won’t be driving probably. Like it or not; it’s the way cars are headed. People didn’t trust regular cruise control when it was first invented, either. Just saying. Things change.
We're in total agreement. I use adaptive cruise control all the time. I have frontal collision avoidance enabled. Rear traffic alert is great. I use this stuff on two different cars. All of this is awesome (except LTA and steering assist, which I have tried extensively and concluded that I do not trust it yet so I have it disabled).

Installing a beta test open sourced auto pilot in my car is a completely different thing. It's irrational to me. If others want to try it, please let the rest of us know where you're driving so we can avoid you. It's as irrational as posting a video of yourself driving with a water bottle on the steering wheel to fool the system into thinking you're actually in control.

That's my opinion on the riskiness of messing with vehicles in this manner and I'm sticking to it. Call me crazy!
 

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Just curious: If you have your wife and young children riding with you in the car, would you still use OpenPilot?
Same could be said for ANY of the systems. Open Pilot uses your car’s existing radar system as well. Many people do use the manufacturer’s system with family in the car, I’m sure. I guess by definition then, we all should avoid driving around every other car that also uses a radar system and lane keep assist. These features don’t replace drivers!!!
 

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Just curious: If you have your wife and young children riding with you in the car, would you still use OpenPilot?
Yes.

Like I said in my post above, I supervise the system and am ready to take control at any time.

There seems to be some misconception that the system is going to immediately crash you into something and I can assure you that is not the case.

It acts like a conservative driver and actually leaves more follow distance that I do natually, accelerates slower, and brakes conservatively earlier and stops farther back that I would.

Would I say the car stops so far back that it's ridiculous? No, but I'd say it drives a little like my mother does. (and she is a safe driver.)

Again, if it's doing something I don't like, I could stop it, override it, or disengage it, but other than some detection anomalies (like when the LKAS loses lane lines.) I haven't really needed to stop it from doing anything, much less stopping it from doing something crazy.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Yes.

Like I said in my post above, I supervise the system and am ready to take control at any time.

There seems to be some misconception that the system is going to immediately crash you into something and I can assure you that is not the case.

It acts like a conservative driver and actually leaves more follow distance that I do natually, accelerates slower, and brakes conservatively earlier and stops farther back that I would.

Would I say the car stops so far back that it's ridiculous? No, but I'd say it drives a little like my mother does. (and she is a safe driver.)

Again, if it's doing something I don't like, I could stop it, override it, or disengage it, but other than some detection anomalies (like when the LKAS loses lane lines.) I haven't really needed to stop it from doing anything, much less stopping it from doing something crazy.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Exactly! This thread is ridiculous. People don’t understand at all what Open Pilot is and is not, yet they post comments to imply that other drivers who use it aren’t being safe. All new cars have adaptive cruise mostly; so according to them, anyone that uses the assist features is unsafe. :rolleyes: There are a lot of trolls on this forum that love to just stir up negativity. I’m finding it’s best not to post any opinion, otherwise you’re attacked for it. Takes the fun out of being on a forum.
 

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Same could be said for ANY of the systems. Open Pilot uses your car’s existing radar system as well. Many people do use the manufacturer’s system with family in the car, I’m sure. I guess by definition then, we all should avoid driving around every other car that also uses a radar system and lane keep assist. These features don’t replace drivers!!!
I don’t have the same level of trust in a beta version of something like OpenPilot as I do for the factory system. I just don’t. I’m still reading about it though so I might change my mind. But I kind of doubt it.

George Hotz web page doesn’t inspire confidence:


If a moderator thinks I’m trolling, please call me out. I’m sharing my opinion, not intentionally trolling.
 

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I don’t have the same level of trust in a beta version of something like OpenPilot as I do for the factory system. I just don’t. I’m still reading about it though so I might change my mind. But I kind of doubt it.

George Hotz web page doesn’t inspire confidence:

You should listen to him talk about the concepts and methodology in one of his interviews. The one from TTI Vanguard is pretty good.

Search for openpilot comparison on YouTube and there are people that have done side by side tests with different systems. The one from ku7tech is pretty interesting as he does a detailed breakdown of the differences. There's also one that compares OP to TSSP and how they're different.

Even with all of that available information, no one is really out to "sell" it to you or change your mind. No one benefits from arguing with you or trying to change your perceived risks except maybe comma, and even then they're just scraping by selling the hardware. (and you actually don't have to buy their hardware to run it, there's an entire community of people that have ported it to run on other hardware.)

Regarding George, OpenPilot itself is the end result of a combination of his code, comma's code (there is more than one developer working there), community code, and an AI driving model trained by using community recorded drives. (originally from people using the initial hardware revision as a dashcam, and then later, a data set created by actual drives under openpilot.)

So as much as you may like or dislike George himself, the code is not solely from him.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Maybe this will help people understand. Obviously everyone has their right to decide what they want to use and do not feel comfortable with, but ignorance about how something works shouldn’t result in an argument.
 
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