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Just curious: If you have your wife and young children riding with you in the car, would you still use OpenPilot?
I have open pilot installed in our 2019 RAV4 Hybrid, and yes I would absolutely use it with loved ones in the car. You have to understand what it does. It helps you drive better, it doesn't drive for you. It is a much enhanced version of ACC and ALC, and in my opinion ads even more safety by helping the driver keep the car better centered and maintaining a safe following distance. Just like ACC and ALC, you are in control at all times. It actually watches you with a driver facing camera to verify that you are, so sorry no bottle trick, and yes it will squawk at you if you are driving and texting. Fall asleep and it will beep loudly at you, then stop the car.
 

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I have open pilot installed in our 2019 RAV4 Hybrid, and yes I would absolutely use it with loved ones in the car. You have to understand what it does. It helps you drive better, it doesn't drive for you. It is a much enhanced version of ACC and ALC, and in my opinion ads even more safety by helping the driver keep the car better centered and maintaining a safe following distance. Just like ACC and ALC, you are in control at all times. It actually watches you with a driver facing camera to verify that you are, so sorry no bottle trick, and yes it will squawk at you if you are driving and texting. Fall asleep and it will beep loudly at you, then stop the car.
Just installed the comma two on a 2020 hybrid.

Question--any battery drainage issues? I noticed the unit is always on. I searched on discord and some have mentioned issues with the prior versions but couldn't find much on the comma two's. Been monitoring the battery voltage through the app.
 

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The comma two doesn't have a built in battery, it has some sort of capacitor.

In order to upload all of your GPS tracks, driving data, video, etc, the Comma Two must remain powered on, and to do that it will have to use your vehicle's battery.

It is supposed to shut down at a voltage high enough to ensure your vehicle can start, but I unfortunately do not have any experience with the Comma Two directly.

Officially speaking I have reversed my position on OpenPilot and after 6 months of supporting them, I now strongly recommend against supporting Comma. I would recommend against purchasing the Comma Two, installing OpenPilot, and additionally, do not believe anyone should be giving them personal data.
 

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The system is great as far as enhancing the existing ADAS technologies in the vehicle.

It has a lot of possibilities as far as future potential but the current iteration is just "better than stock." An example of where it can fall short is that if something enters the vehicles path, it may not perform an obstacle avoidance maneuver. This is a situation that Tesla's system can sometimes handle. For the most part, OpenPilot will not respond to this situation.

Driver monitoring is hit and miss on the original EON. It is improved for Comma Two.

For anyone with older hardware, Comma did not provide an upgrade path. George Hotz during the Comma Two live stream announcement referred to the old hardware saying that current owners can use them as a "door stop", suggesting that owners purchase a new $1000 Comma Two. Both the original EON hardware and the Comma Two are based on a chinese LeEco x720 smartphone that is worth about $120 MSRP. Comma Two has a lot of modifications to the phone (which I am not going to get into here), but my personal opinion is that the hardware isn't worth $1000 for the comma two and $200 for the car harness.

It could be argued that the hardware is worth it when the software is included, but the software is in fact free.

All drives are uploaded to Comma and you consent to give your data to them. There is no opt-out process unless you are capable of modifying their code. This also means that the device must upload all of this data to Comma and can be problematic for people on metered connections. For instance, I know some people now that do not have internet at home and use their phones as hotspots.

The device must be connected to WiFi every 7 days or it will fail to engage, this behavior is also not configurable. An example of where this could be an issue is if you live in a large building with underground parking.

The update functionality is also not configurable. When the device is connected, it will automatically update. You cannot opt out of this behavior or delay it. Some people prefer to wait on updates to ensure their device remains stable.

While engaged, the data is always writing to internal storage, this is so that the data can be sent to Comma for their use. Constant writing to the internal flash memory will eventually wear the flash down and the device will fail.

All of those issues could be fixed by making changes to the OpenPilot software, but not all consumers have the technical expertise to do so.

This is an advanced device and not intended for the general population. The device must be reliable (specifically with regards to the constant writing to the flash storage), it must have easily accessible privacy opt in/opt out controls, and I feel that it should handle more situations safely.
 

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Well I installed one on 2020 rav4 hybird..........no instructions come with it ...u have to go to u tube and learn new stuff..I think it is neatest thang going..although wife do not like it.
I am not geekie.........77 year old ret. crop duster.. so you can do it . These kids that developed it wanted to show that the 7000 dollar telsa was not that good..I have v7.4 installed.I think it super good for 1,200 dollars..These kids could make millions with it but do not have good advertisement ..it is open source.mostly geeks are easy with it and can even build some of the parts..u goo to discord web for help it is hell they talk above me..u can install it in 15 minutes super easy..b young buy one. thanks bill
 

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I had a OnePlus 3T laying around, so I decided to purchase the necessary parts for my 2019 RAV4 LE.

So for me, I spent maybe $400 USD altogether to get:
  • Toyota harness (from Comma)
  • Black Panda + Comma Power (from Comma)
  • A slide in case (since I am using my own; from a member of the OpenPilot Discord)
The install of the software on to the phone was relatively easy since I've been flashing my own ROMs for years now. Installation in the car took maybe 20 minutes in total considering half of that time was trying to take the lane keep assist camera cover off and cable management.

I did 3 drives in downtown Toronto and it worked really well, but I can't see myself using it in such a busy city. We have way too many pedestrians, cyclists, and stop lights/signs. I do plan on using this pretty much every time I am on the highway or on a day trip of some sort.

From what I did see when I used it, it felt really confident on the road. It took curves like a champ, which honestly made me laugh out loud in real life because it made me realize just far technology has come.

Overall, for what I spent, I think it was well worth the investment. I didn't want to commit to a Comma 2 which would have run me $1000 USD (like $1600-$1700 CAD after taxes and fees).

YouTube: My setup in the 2019 RAV4
 

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I'll post another update. I still have the system and I still do not recommend it for non-developers.

I have both the Comma EON and two development units built the same way @Hieberrr built his, except the case was purchased from Taobao (Essentially Chinese eBay/Marketplace).

I would say there are still issues that concern me. Sometimes if I drive somewhere on a really hot day and leave the vehicle parked in the sun for 20-30 minutes (leaving the EON on the windshield), it will fail to engage due to excessive heat.

This also means that if there were a situation where you were driving in an area that is very hot (Texas, Arizona, etc.) You may find that the unit either won't engage, or may disengage suddenly while driving.

While using the system, as a driver, you must be paying attention, so this should be a non issue, but when it comes to systems meant to provide driver assistance, I don't think any of the car manufacturers would have been able to sell their vehicles like this. Imagine a world where Lane Keep Assist or Tesla's Autopilot would only function if the car is not parked in the sun for 20 minutes.

Full disclosure, if you using the air conditioning in the vehicle, the unit should be able to cool itself sufficiently to stay running.

I've mentioned it before, but there is also a failure of the vehicle to perform almost any type of obstacle avoidance autonomously. This isn't really part of openpilot's design, but it is just worth knowing, if you're driving and an object falls into your lane from an adjacent lane, openpilot will not attempt any obstacle avoidance.
 

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I heard that one needs internet connection at least 7 days for the Comma Two to function. Is this correct?
 

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I heard that one needs internet connection at least 7 days for the Comma Two to function. Is this correct?
Without modifying the code, yes, this is correct. Also, you will be uploading video and records of your drives to Comma for their uses.
 

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...
I've mentioned it before, but there is also a failure of the vehicle to perform almost any type of obstacle avoidance autonomously. This isn't really part of openpilot's design, but it is just worth knowing, if you're driving and an object falls into your lane from an adjacent lane, openpilot will not attempt any obstacle avoidance.
To be fair though, I don't think most systems do that today. I'm not even sure Tesla's Autopilot does it either.

At the end of the day, all of today's systems (weather stock or 3rd party) are just advanced driver assistance software. The driver is still is still responsible.

The way I see it is that it is there to make my long drives more relaxing.
 

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There are actually compilation videos of "Tesla Saves" on YouTube. Tesla will chirp a warning tone and then automatically correct to avoid an accident.

It can also move the vehicle from dangers that aren't apparent from the driver's eye line (like vehicles entering the blindspot area and trying to move into the vehicle's lane.)

Not only does OpenPilot not have the advanced functionality, but it also lacks basic obstacle avoidance in the same lane. If the lane is partially obstructed, for instance, if there's a delivery truck parked half into the shoulder and 3 feet into the lane, OpenPilot will still attempt to keep the vehicle centered. Yes, you're supposed to be paying attention, so this is one of the situations where you're supposed to correct the vehicle. In the absence of a correction, you will definitely hit the truck.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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There are actually compilation videos of "Tesla Saves" on YouTube. Tesla will chirp a warning tone and then automatically correct to avoid an accident.

It can also move the vehicle from dangers that aren't apparent from the driver's eye line (like vehicles entering the blindspot area and trying to move into the vehicle's lane.)

Not only does OpenPilot not have the advanced functionality, but it also lacks basic obstacle avoidance in the same lane. If the lane is partially obstructed, for instance, if there's a delivery truck parked half into the shoulder and 3 feet into the lane, OpenPilot will still attempt to keep the vehicle centered. Yes, you're supposed to be paying attention, so this is one of the situations where you're supposed to correct the vehicle. In the absence of a correction, you will definitely hit the truck.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Ah, that's correct -- I thought you meant things like pylons, animals crossing the lanes or things of that nature. In those cases, there was a video done b Dirty Tesla that debunks a lot of these "Tesla Saves" claims where users are claiming the car avoids or brakes for these things. But I do agree, Tesla's do pretty well react to cars that pose potential issues. I guess that's the benefit of having full control over the full stack of cameras and sensors.
 

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Does Tesla AP avoid debris on the road?
 

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^^^^ And what about puddles where you would hydroplane?

As a former software engineer, I doubt I will be using self-driving cars for a very long time.
 

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Does Tesla AP avoid debris on the road?
^^^^ And what about puddles where you would hydroplane?

As a former software engineer, I doubt I will be using self-driving cars for a very long time.
No and no, but that's why I keep my hand by the wheel and take over whenever I feel like there's going to be an issue. Otherwise, I just don't turn it on. It's not any different than LKA and Cruise Control, just better steering and gas/brake control.
 

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As of current release, Openpilot doesn't adjust for road weather (water, snow, mud) - an exception is that if you trigger traction control, it's supposed to disengage.

Openpilot won't make any changes to the model based on sensors on the vehicle related to the environment. (For instance if the rain sensor is triggering the windshield wipers or the external temperature is under freezing, Openpilot has no knowledge and doesn't take it into account.)

It wasn't trained to see standing water, does not avoid pot holes, manhole covers, or speed bumps.

It currently isn't trained to see traffic cones or traffic sticks, cannot see traffic lights, and cannot read any road signs (including but not limited to speed limit signs, school zone, yield, stop signs, construction zone, etc.)

One idea in the Openpilot community that has seen some discussion is that Comma wanted to design the system so that it can drive on any road without having any knowledge of the road. This makes perfect sense in that a human can drive in new environments safely without having knowledge of those environments. In practice this really only translates to a model that can follow lane lines and stop before rear ending the vehicle in front of you. There are some benefits, it nags you less than the factory system, and can steer with no lane lines as long as it is following a lead vehicle.

Designing a model that can always function in new environments also means they've made a decision against using GPS maps, and also the AI model doesn't learn previously driven roads in the way a human does. How the AI model adjusts to a road that has been driven repeatedly isn't really the same as, for instance, a human learning the curves of a road and preemptively adjusting the vehicle speed or lane position.

I feel that if a human can have existing knowledge of an environment, the Openpilot AI model should be able to use as much information as possible to make driving safer. (Including using live GPS maps or saved GPS data from previous drives.) Unfortunately this is not a goal of the project.

One of the biggest design issues, in my opinions, is that the weight of the physical components is suspended from the windshield. On a hot day the adhesive CAN come off. This happens on the older model more than the new one as the new one has a larger surface area for adhesive. On the Comma EON, in early May, I had come back to the vehicle to find the device sitting on my dashboard. I'm thankful that it didn't fall off when the vehicle was engaged as it could have steered me into a wall, barrier, or other vehicle.

If the physical part of the system were better designed, I may have less concerns about the system. For instance having a light weight camera on the windshield and having the processing unit somewhere protected from heat, that's a good start.

The software gripes, I think could be changed but at this point any large change to the core software is like trying to steer a large ship. If your idea is in conflict with Comma's idea, you have the option to fork the software, but your idea will never make it into the main community version.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Need more like buttons.

I will say that VW’s digital cockpit system as shown in that Tiguan is insanely good.
I felt that comment in my gut. I am dumping a perfectly good Jetta SEL Premium with only 18200 miles (and a 72000 mile warranty) for a 2020 Rav4 Limited. And you are so correct - that digital dash ROCKS!
As does the Beats audio, proximity touch screen that you can fan and swipe all your music selection on the mini SD card. And the computer collecting all the driving data has been spot - on.
I will miss that car but it is too small for my wife (at 5 ft 112 lbs??) to enjoy traveling in.
God help me if my Rav suffers from the DTE issue tank fill issue and the dead battery issue..
Wish me luck!
 
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