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This is a good description of the issue, both what the fuel gauge is doing and the common experience dealing with Toyota service personnel. Today I thought of a way to describe the issue that avoids the term DTE. I’ve noticed that trying on here, or at the dealership, to argue that it is an issue that your display shows only 400 DTE after a fill up brings out the trolls and Toyota apologists. DTE or Cruising Range has been a reliable technology on any other vehicle I’ve owned for 20 years (albeit non-Toyotas), but I’ll accept for the sake of this forum that we can’t invoke DTE abnormalities as a symptom of problems. I thus propose this new way to describe the issue: “after a fill-up, defined as filling to first click with 3-4 additional top-offs, I see the fuel gauge at 7/8 and can get no more than 400 odometer miles until the low fuel light comes on again.” That, Toyota service guy, is an issue based on how your employer marketed this vehicle.
Well but your description of the issue doesn’t fit observed behavior on mine. If I do what you describe, I’ll usually get above Full and close to 500 DTE. The point in my case is I shouldn’t have to do that much topping off, if at all.
 

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Just a point of reference from hot South Florida. I filled up today right after the low fuel light came on. I was able to fill about the same 9.7 gallons until the first click, just as always.

Perhaps the issue is similar to the angels share and the devil's cut in making whiskey where no one knows where the extra two gallons goes?

Happy Thanksgiving to U.S. members of the forum.

https://www.grappamarolo.it/en/stories/the-angels-share-the-devils-cut/
 

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You know, that's something I've been wondering, what locations do people live in, I'm in California myself and experience the problem, and from the earlier post I can count Floridians as having fill up fun too.

Are there any Texans running in to the issue?
 

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Yes. I edited to attach the after fill photo to my original post. Thx.
I just filled up today. Before I started, I looked at the DTE, it was 250. To be conservative and not to over fill, I assumed 50 miles per gallon. I started filling, it stopped at 3.85 gallons. Then I slowly filled (stopped and started a few times) to 4.85 gallons, no spillage. Started the car and noted the needle was just above the full mark, and the DTE was 522.
 

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Just a point of reference from hot South Florida. I filled up today right after the low fuel light came on. I was able to fill about the same 9.7 gallons until the first click, just as always.

Perhaps the issue is similar to the angels share and the devil's cut in making whiskey where no one knows where the extra two gallons goes?

Happy Thanksgiving to U.S. members of the forum.

https://www.grappamarolo.it/en/stories/the-angels-share-the-devils-cut/
I can appreciate a viewpoint that ties in a car issue to a distillers quandary! (y)
 

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Weird I filled for the third time today and gauge went well above full...11 gallons and still 50 miles to empty. I have a Sept Canada XLE Hybrid.

I did have the issue on the first two fills,.only 9.5 when I was about 10 miles to empty. Didn't get to full on the gauge. But this was a different gas station and the pump had one of those vapor sleeves.

I am in Oregon so attendant has stopped at first click all times, no top off.
 

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Has anyone mentioned that there seem to be (at least) two different fuel tanks? Maybe we need to start collecting information on the VINs of the cars that have the fuel fill problem. Someone start another thread!

In the parts.toyota.com links below, to verify which tank your RAV4 uses you need to drill down on the "Let's Confirm Fitment" button, select Toyota, year, RAV4. Then click the button that matches the first eight characters of your ViN. Be sure to click on the "SHOW MORE" option box to the right of the VINs or you might not see yours.

The first eight characters in my VIN are JTMEWRFV (Japan build)

P/N 770010R090 - This part DOES NOT work with my VIN. It fits certain Canadian and Japan VINs though.


P/N 770010R100 - This part DOES work with my VIN, It also fits certain Canadian and Japan VINs.


Talk amongst yourselves! Or if I missed this 50 pages ago, disregard. :)

EDIT: If all I've done is identify the gas fuel tank vs. the hybrid fuel tank, well then never mind. It's not clear to me from the Toyota links whether that's the difference in the two different tanks.
 

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Has anyone mentioned that there seem to be (at least) two different fuel tanks? Maybe we need to start collecting information on the VINs of the cars that have the fuel fill problem. Someone start another thread!

In the parts.toyota.com links below, to verify which tank your RAV4 uses you need to drill down on the "Let's Confirm Fitment" button, select Toyota, year, RAV4. Then click the button that matches the first eight characters of your ViN. Be sure to click on the "SHOW MORE" option box to the right of the VINs or you might not see yours.

The first eight characters in my VIN are JTMEWRFV (Japan build)

P/N 770010R090 - This part DOES NOT work with my VIN. It fits certain Canadian and Japan VINs though.


P/N 770010R100 - This part DOES work with my VIN, It also fits certain Canadian and Japan VINs.


Talk amongst yourselves! Or if I missed this 50 pages ago, disregard. :)

EDIT: If all I've done is identify the gas fuel tank vs. the hybrid fuel tank, well then never mind. It's not clear to me from the Toyota links whether that's the difference in the two different tanks.
The page for the second fuel tank P/N 770010R100 has a tab "What This Fits" and it shows the following:

Toyota RAV4 HYBRID VIN .....

On the other hand, the page for the first tank doesn't mention hybrid.
 

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I just filled up today. Before I started, I looked at the DTE, it was 250. To be conservative and not to over fill, I assumed 50 miles per gallon. I started filling, it stopped at 3.85 gallons. Then I slowly filled (stopped and started a few times) to 4.85 gallons, no spillage. Started the car and noted the needle was just above the full mark, and the DTE was 522.
What was the gauge location before you filled? What was your average MPG? Thanks.
 

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You are probably right, but I didn't want to take a chance in overfilling. If the DTE is accurate, I am satisfied with it. I plan to continue doing going forward until a fix in January 2020 (hopefully).
 

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Last time I filled (and I think overfilled!) since I had to keep monkeying with it to fill it- my DTE was 479-
Not so great.

I find myself really looking at 2019 Rav 4's I see- to see if they are "Hybrid"s I rarely see Hybrids. Why is that? I can't believe people would not opt for the Hybrid- are they purposely holding back on selling these because they know of the problem? So people are setting for the gas model? Just wondering- I'm in OH, but when I visited So California couple weeks ago, I didn't see many on the road- TONS of Prius. But the Rav 4's I saw (2019) were NOT Hybrid- of all places to opt for gas- when their gas is $4.50 ish a gallon!
 

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When I picked up my new car on May 28, 2019, it was 560 DTE. Needle above Full mark.
I purchased a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid Limited (made in Canada) in early October. I noticed the gas tank issue after the first fill. When I picked up the car from the dealership, the DTE was 550. After the first fill, it was 477, then 430 after the 2nd fill. Now I’m barely clearing 400 even with some ill recommended topping off...
As I'm monitoring this thread I'm seeing a trend. Several members have reported similar DTE initial numbers to those above in the 550 range when the cars were picked up new at their dealers. But except for a couple examples DTEs that high are never seen again with some being as low as 300.

The difficulties with filling the tank is certainly a factor in the lower DTEs because the gallons number must come from the fuel float via the gauge, but since DTE = gallons x MPG, actual fuel mileage is just as big a factor. That would have to come from average mileage readout, probably a per tank number IMO.

So my question is what MPG number does Toyota use to get an initial DTE when the car hasn't used any gas yet? Why couldn't the DTE computer be loaded with any MPG number Toyota wants to use? If one uses the tank capacity of 14.5 gallons out-of-gas-empty and a reserve of 2 gallons when DTE hits 0, then the tank-full gallons for max DTE = 12.5, and throwing in a picked-out-of-thin-air 44 MPG! gives 550 for a new car DTE.

I actually saw something very similar happen with my '18 Accord today. When I filled up until a little spilled out as is my custom, the previous two times my Range (DTE) went to 535 and 520. Yesterday it only went to 478. Why? Because in the warmer summer weather my tank average mileage was in the low 40s. Yesterday it was 36.8 so using that mileage as a predictor gave a lower estimated range. Then today on a road trip the average went back up to 40. With 204 miles on this tank the Range showed 299 which pushed the total Range up from 478 to 503. I got 25 miles back.

Sooo, the explanation for low DTEs is either the tank isn't getting filled completely and/or the car isn't getting 44 MPG. In most cases probably both.
 

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You are probably right, but I didn't want to take a chance in overfilling. If the DTE is accurate, I am satisfied with it. I plan to continue doing going forward until a fix in January 2020 (hopefully).
With my RAV4 hybrid when I under-filled by a gallon, my actual mileage for the tank ended being 88% of the initial DTE. (Did this twice.) I'd be curious to know what your actual mileage for this tank is (when you get there).

The only times my actual mileage matched or exceeded DTE estimates were when I overfilled the tank.
 

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As I'm monitoring this thread I'm seeing a trend. Several members have reported similar DTE initial numbers to those above in the 550 range when the cars were picked up new at their dealers. But except for a couple examples DTEs that high are never seen again with some being as low as 300.

The difficulties with filling the tank is certainly a factor in the lower DTEs because the gallons number must come from the fuel float via the gauge, but since DTE = gallons x MPG, actual fuel mileage is just as big a factor. That would have to come from average mileage readout, probably a per tank number IMO.

So my question is what MPG number does Toyota use to get an initial DTE when the car hasn't used any gas yet? Why couldn't the DTE computer be loaded with any MPG number Toyota wants to use? If one uses the tank capacity of 14.5 gallons out-of-gas-empty and a reserve of 2 gallons when DTE hits 0, then the tank-full gallons for max DTE = 12.5, and throwing in a picked-out-of-thin-air 44 MPG! gives 550 for a new car DTE.

I actually saw something very similar happen with my '18 Accord today. When I filled up until a little spilled out as is my custom, the previous two times my Range (DTE) went to 535 and 520. Yesterday it only went to 478. Why? Because in the warmer summer weather my tank average mileage was in the low 40s. Yesterday it was 36.8 so using that mileage as a predictor gave a lower estimated range. Then today on a road trip the average went back up to 40. With 204 miles on this tank the Range showed 299 which pushed the total Range up from 478 to 503. I got 25 miles back.

Sooo, the explanation for low DTEs is either the tank isn't getting filled completely and/or the car isn't getting 44 MPG. In most cases probably both.
Bingo.

My spreadsheet validates the events where I fail to fill the "tank" to capacity, thus providing an aberrant high mpg on that specific tank of driving, only to have the next fueling event where I counter balance that previous tank of driving with a persistent and tenacious fuel event that results in a 'tank' that produces a very low mpg.

I'm going to include two image captures from my spreadsheet.

Tank Average MPG:

TankMPG.png

. . . . and Historic (corresponding) DTE:

DTE.png

Now . . . . . "So my question is what MPG number does Toyota use to get an initial DTE when the car hasn't used any gas yet?" . . . . . .

Brilliant ! ! ! !

Excellent question! I would be extremely interested in the answer to that, straight from the person that is responsible for that.

I have kept the fuel vessel (I'm of the opinion/belief that it has a bladder) on my unit as full as is reasonable since I drove it off the lot. It has been on one road trip where the fuel gauge dipped to ~ 1/4 at each end of the trip. That was in August when temperatures were in the 70's and 80's here in the north of California.

The running spreadsheet I have maintained for the units life provides strong evidence that the fuel gauge, the DTE, the Tank Average, and the Total Average . . . . . it all falls into place with my unit.

The DTE numbers are absolutely reflecting the lower temperatures in late September thru October and November, 50's, 40's, and 30's.
 

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I have also found an apparent pretty steep loss in MPG since early summer when we bought the RAV. I don't think we really have a serious problem with filling ours. At first or second "click off", our gauge reads FULL.

My wife is the daily driver, so I don't fill it too often, but recently I did and noticed the DTE went only to the low 400s and the overall average displayed is down to around 36 MPG. I have reset this display only once...I think in September. Previously (before the reset) the overall was always flirting with 39 - 40 MPG.

I have also been tracking each tank in a spreadsheet. We have filled the car 14 times. The most we have put in is 10.991 gallons...that was the only time, I think, when we let the DTE get down to the "fill now" level.

Here are my calculated mileages:

Date MPG
6/19 43.17901235
6/24 40.98320461
7/8 42.09260373
7/29 37.70491803
8/28 40.88305952 (2 tank avg)
9/9 37.69129825
9/16 41.75724638
9/26 38.27879874
10/5 36.27176757
10/15 36.97698113
10/23 36.3221451
11/2 34.16444614
11/16 36.39341279
11/23 37.040715

Total Calc Avg: 38.6 MPG

On one hand I look at some of these and wonder why we are only getting 34, 36 MPG. Then I remind myself that the Subaru Outback 3.6 that it replaced only averaged 22 with highway getting at best 26 - 28.

Rob
 

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I have the Canada made Rav4 Hybrid; Just drove 80 miles past DTE=0, let the attendant fill up (NJ), he added 13.3 gallons, implying there had been 1.2 gallons left in the tank..
BTW, you can get rid of the "fuel now" display (which came on every time I started up during the 80 miles) by hitting the back button on the steering wheel..
 

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Today I drove my hav4h 18 miles past DTE=0, was only able to add 10.949 gallons. The gauge was at F after fueling, so I have the second type (Type B) of fueling issue: short of fueling despite [email protected]
 

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Hopefully anyone with this well-known problem has called Toyota Corporate at 800-331-4331 and their dealer service department to report and describe their problem. Please report any solutions or proposed solutions to this thread. As for me, I’m still waiting for some significant movement from Toyota but hopefully, if all of us with this issue keep the pressure on, this will get fixed.

I’m assuming the other thread apparently was getting too large and thus was closed to new replies. I have asked but haven’t yet gotten any response at https://www.rav4world.com/forums/autoguide-forum-support-help-rav4world.145/
Part of the fuel saving technology. Ha. All is good.
 
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