Well, at least they set a date.
Well, at least they set a date.
So, because there was non compliance, what happens next?
The situation is different from the Prius. The Prius had a bladder tank that wouldn't hold as much fuel in cold weather. This was part of the design, a trade-off made when engineering it, and described in the owner's manual. From Toyota's perspective there's nothing broken. It's like asking Toyota to fix the cargo size, because the battery takes up too much room.
Don’t think I am incorrect: see this post ...The situation is different from the Prius. The Prius had a bladder tank that wouldn't hold as much fuel in cold weather. This was part of the design, a trade-off made when engineering it, and described in the owner's manual. From Toyota's perspective there's nothing broken. It's like asking Toyota to fix the cargo size, because the battery takes up too much room.
The RAV4 is different. It doesn't have a bladder tank, for one thing. This isn't a design trade-off, it's a flaw. It doesn't work how the owner's manual claims. Toyota is obligated to fix it under their warranty.
At this time buy back was denied. If they can not fix it NCDS implied I could push for buy back, if it is never fixed. With the letter Toyota sent to NCDS stating they could not meet the deadline, that "extended" their time to comply with the fix to the Rav. No matter what the ruling was, which stated it was mandatory they fix it by 1/10/2020.So, if there is not compliance by that date (January), then what happens? Are they buying back?
Per NCDS, whom called me xx weeks ago, she said to keep following along with this community, i.e. as to what is happening with the Rav4 fill issue. She also said to pursue other avenues if I so desired ie. Lemon Law etc. She also said document document document.She could pursue a lemon law case with Toyota. If she chooses that route she would need to contact a lemon law attorney.
Toyota has NOT been saying there is a fix or when it might be implemented.
2020 XSE (Canadian Built)Going to quote this response because after filling up for the first time, #2 is presumably also my issue. Here's my first insight on my first fill up
2020 XSE (Hybrid obviously lol) - my very first fill-up and driving experience on my new vehicle (picked up about 1.5 weeks ago. Canadian built)
-DTE after fill est. 529 miles
- Dealership supposedly filled my tank up and the gauge looked full upon pickup.
- I was only able to drive 400 miles until my DTE said REFUEL NOW with a 36.1 average...So that was discouraging.
- I drove 5 miles past Refuel now status
- While filling up, first click stopped at 10.9 gallons
- I pumped in two more clicks until 11.54 gallons (starting hearing it back up a little and didn't want to REALLY over due it this being my first fill up)
Going to keep everyone posted as I also log my experiences.
I also want to take the time to thank those who are going above and beyond by driving around with gallons of gas in their vehicles until they absolutely run out of gas on the side of the roads. Figuring out how much further our Ravs are going after DTE has expired (over 100 miles!). Thank you all
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Called my caseworker back the other day about the fill issue on my 2019 XSE. They gave me a new case #and said someone would call me the next day to discuss the issue (again). She did and said they are working on a fix, but none is available yet blah, blah, blah. Same old stuff. She did ask if I wanted to pursue a buyback. I really like my Rav so I said no, not at this time. I just want it fixed. If they do not come up with a fix, I may consider a buyback.
Auctioning them off and sweeping the issue under the rug... thats what happened with mine
That seems to be the case for me. I was able to remove the nozzle and let the pressure equalize. Then I was able to add two more gallons and the gauge read full just (before) the Rav4 was in a head on collision with a vehicle going 90 mph escaping from the police. That's another story.What do you mean by the "fuel cutoff"? And what do you mean by switching your display to analog?
Here's the way modern cars work, which might answer your questions.
Inside the tank there's a float to measure the fuel level. It's similar in function to the float in the tank of your toilet. This float is connected to some circuitry that measures the fuel level, which is communicated back to the ECU (Electronic Control Unit, basically the main computer inside your car). This same computer then communicates with your dashboard to tell it how much fuel is left. The dashboard might have an analog dial for the fuel gauge, or maybe it has a digital display, or maybe it has a digital simulation of an analog dial. Note that this measurement varies greatly while you drive (the fuel sloshes around, or will change as you go uphill or downhill); the computer likely averages out the display so you don't see this.
Likewise, the ECU is also connected to the sensors that measure wheel rotation, from which it knows the vehicle speed, which it also communicates to the dashboard for your speedometer and odometer.
Estimating the MPG is a bit more complex. The ECU also controls the engine, the fuel injectors, for example. It knows how much fuel it's putting into each cylinder with each cycle of the engine. It also knows the engine RPM. And the number of cylinders. And the vehicle speed. From all this information you can calculate the instantaneous MPG -- that white bar in the display you linked. Once it knows this information, it can be sent to the dashboard for display like everything else.
Getting the average MPG from this feels like it should be simple, but just averaging what we calculated above is going to be very inaccurate. I'm not actually sure what manufacturers do to solve this problem -- if I were the engineer, I'd create a Kalman filter and use the tank measurement and wheel sensors along with the above instantaneous measurement to create a more accurate model. In the end, though, it's not going to be as accurate as how people do it by hand. But I think this is a good idea of why car engineers route everything through the ECU, as it can do interesting stuff with data from multiple sensors.
By "fuel cutoff" I think you mean shutting off the pump when refueling? That one is different. The car doesn't tell the pump when to shut off, it's the pump that determines when the tank is full and stops pumping. If you look at the nozzle, there's a hole near the tip that detects when fuel has come back up the filler tube, which should only happen when the tank is full. Imagine sticking your finger in a cup to know when to stop pouring in water (which, incidentally, is exactly what blind people do).
Of course, nothing is quite that simple. As fuel goes into the tank, the gasses (fumes from the fuel, mostly) in the tank have to be displaced somewhere. For emissions control, we don't want these fumes escaping into the atmosphere. Instead, when refueling your tank, there's an internal venting system that recaptures fuel from the vapors, keeping everything inside the car. If this system gets backed up (a clogged valve, saturated carbon filter, etc), the fumes can't vent properly, and fuel backs up the filler tube even though the tank isn't full ... shutting off the pump prematurely. The current theory is that there's something wrong with this venting system that's causing the refueling problem that people are reporting.
It's possible (even likely) the ECU is involved in the venting process on the RAV4. The car seems to be doing something special when opening the fuel door, there's a limited time allowed to refuel, and more to indicate that it's trying to do something fancy. There's lots of things that could be going wrong with the refueling process that could result in the behavior people are seeing.