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Toyota has been saying there is a fix within two weeks, by January, etc. The same problem apparently has existed with the Toyota Prius 2008. Apparently, there was never a fix, just a cheery letter saying there was no fix. NO fix for Prius Gas Tank Filling Up Issues
The situation is different from the Prius. The Prius had a bladder tank that wouldn't hold as much fuel in cold weather. This was part of the design, a trade-off made when engineering it, and described in the owner's manual. From Toyota's perspective there's nothing broken. It's like asking Toyota to fix the cargo size, because the battery takes up too much room.

The RAV4 is different. It doesn't have a bladder tank, for one thing. This isn't a design trade-off, it's a flaw. It doesn't work how the owner's manual claims. Toyota is obligated to fix it under their warranty.
 

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The situation is different from the Prius. The Prius had a bladder tank that wouldn't hold as much fuel in cold weather. This was part of the design, a trade-off made when engineering it, and described in the owner's manual. From Toyota's perspective there's nothing broken. It's like asking Toyota to fix the cargo size, because the battery takes up too much room.

The RAV4 is different. It doesn't have a bladder tank, for one thing. This isn't a design trade-off, it's a flaw. It doesn't work how the owner's manual claims. Toyota is obligated to fix it under their warranty.
Don’t think I am incorrect: see this post ...
bpedit said:
It seems to me that you're missing the most salient point derived from previous discussions: the role of the bladder. The most accurate appearing contributions indicated that, even after a hiatus of using a bladder within the gas tank, Toyota has again implemented it in the 2019 Rav4 Hybrid. These bladders have a history, when used previously in the Prius, of causing fill-up issues much like that being experienced by current Rav4 owners although many issues back then were related to temperature differences affecting the functional capacity.
 

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So, if there is not compliance by that date (January), then what happens? Are they buying back?
At this time buy back was denied. If they can not fix it NCDS implied I could push for buy back, if it is never fixed. With the letter Toyota sent to NCDS stating they could not meet the deadline, that "extended" their time to comply with the fix to the Rav. No matter what the ruling was, which stated it was mandatory they fix it by 1/10/2020.

She could pursue a lemon law case with Toyota. If she chooses that route she would need to contact a lemon law attorney.
Per NCDS, whom called me xx weeks ago, she said to keep following along with this community, i.e. as to what is happening with the Rav4 fill issue. She also said to pursue other avenues if I so desired ie. Lemon Law etc. She also said document document document.

I have until the end of this year to lemon law the Rav if we so desire. I filed a case with Toyota right around 2500 miles. We bought the car in Virginia, so we need to have two more visits documenting the issue. We have 18 months from purchase or 12 months from the time we filed the dispute, both equal the end of 2020. Then it is paper work if we decide to do a buy back. Registered letters etc to Toyota.
 

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Discussion Starter #2,972
Toyota has been saying there is a fix within two weeks, by January, etc. The same problem apparently has existed with the Toyota Prius 2008. Apparently, there was never a fix, just a cheery letter saying there was no fix. NO fix for Prius Gas Tank Filling Up Issues
Toyota has NOT been saying there is a fix or when it might be implemented.
There has been no official comment or TSB issued YET by Toyota Corporate on this subject.
 

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Going to quote this response because after filling up for the first time, #2 is presumably also my issue. Here's my first insight on my first fill up


2020 XSE (Hybrid obviously lol) - my very first fill-up and driving experience on my new vehicle (picked up about 1.5 weeks ago. Canadian built)

  • Dealership supposedly filled my tank up and the gauge looked full upon pickup.
  • I was only able to drive 400 miles until my DTE said REFUEL NOW with a 36.1 average...So that was discouraging.
  • I drove 5 miles past Refuel now status
  • While filling up, first click stopped at 10.9 gallons
  • I pumped in two more clicks until 11.54 gallons (starting hearing it back up a little and didn't want to REALLY over due it this being my first fill up)
-DTE after fill est. 529 miles

Going to keep everyone posted as I also log my experiences.


I also want to take the time to thank those who are going above and beyond by driving around with gallons of gas in their vehicles until they absolutely run out of gas on the side of the roads. Figuring out how much further our Ravs are going after DTE has expired (over 100 miles!). Thank you all


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
2020 XSE (Canadian Built)
My second fill up experience as follows

Was able to drive ~470ish miles (forgot to take a picture of what it was) when DTE said REFUEL NOW. Averaged 39.4 miles

Drove 26.9 miles after Refuel Now hit. My original plan was to drive around 100 since that's what it seems others are getting with ease. However, I decided to fill up right then and there because as you'll see in the pictures, the needle was FAR below the Empty bar and almost completely under the LETTER E itself.
(Side question, those who have gone to approx 100 miles after Refuel Now status, what does your needle look like in comparison to mine).

Refueling, first click stopped at a whopping 12.0 gallons! (Eye roll)......I continued to fill up multiple (4-5) clicks until I thought I heard it coming up the nozzle. I stopped there and didn't try any other methods. In total I was able to achieve 12.71 gallons.

My needle is past the F and DTE is 517

Still frustrating going 26 miles past Refuel now and only able to put 12.7 gallons of gas in...will continue to document my issues as well

Opinions/thoughts?



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

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That's where my needle was too. It won't go any lower than that. You may have been able to go a total of 80 past the Refuel or zero DTE -- but if I were you that's as far as I would push it. I've run completely out and it needed a trip to the stealership to reset all the trouble codes. See my results HERE
 

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Called my caseworker back the other day about the fill issue on my 2019 XSE. They gave me a new case #and said someone would call me the next day to discuss the issue (again). She did and said they are working on a fix, but none is available yet blah, blah, blah. Same old stuff. She did ask if I wanted to pursue a buyback. I really like my Rav so I said no, not at this time. I just want it fixed. If they do not come up with a fix, I may consider a buyback.
 

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So, what is Toyota doing with buyback vehicles if customers pursue this option?

Called my caseworker back the other day about the fill issue on my 2019 XSE. They gave me a new case #and said someone would call me the next day to discuss the issue (again). She did and said they are working on a fix, but none is available yet blah, blah, blah. Same old stuff. She did ask if I wanted to pursue a buyback. I really like my Rav so I said no, not at this time. I just want it fixed. If they do not come up with a fix, I may consider a buyback.
 

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Another customer will buy it then call them again ! Not a good solution.

Likely, that explains why there are lots used 2019 RAV4 Hybrid at the dealers with 20-30k. They try sell them same price as new ones now.


Auctioning them off and sweeping the issue under the rug... thats what happened with mine
 

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I actually got a full tank on first click this weekend after months of having the issue. The only difference I noticed was that there was a progress bar on the screen when I hit the fuel door button (usually it immediately says "ready to refuel") so maybe this was the system acting correctly? Does anyone else routinely see a "please wait" progress bar before the "ready to refuel" message?
 

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What do you mean by the "fuel cutoff"? And what do you mean by switching your display to analog?

Here's the way modern cars work, which might answer your questions.

Inside the tank there's a float to measure the fuel level. It's similar in function to the float in the tank of your toilet. This float is connected to some circuitry that measures the fuel level, which is communicated back to the ECU (Electronic Control Unit, basically the main computer inside your car). This same computer then communicates with your dashboard to tell it how much fuel is left. The dashboard might have an analog dial for the fuel gauge, or maybe it has a digital display, or maybe it has a digital simulation of an analog dial. Note that this measurement varies greatly while you drive (the fuel sloshes around, or will change as you go uphill or downhill); the computer likely averages out the display so you don't see this.

Likewise, the ECU is also connected to the sensors that measure wheel rotation, from which it knows the vehicle speed, which it also communicates to the dashboard for your speedometer and odometer.

Estimating the MPG is a bit more complex. The ECU also controls the engine, the fuel injectors, for example. It knows how much fuel it's putting into each cylinder with each cycle of the engine. It also knows the engine RPM. And the number of cylinders. And the vehicle speed. From all this information you can calculate the instantaneous MPG -- that white bar in the display you linked. Once it knows this information, it can be sent to the dashboard for display like everything else.

Getting the average MPG from this feels like it should be simple, but just averaging what we calculated above is going to be very inaccurate. I'm not actually sure what manufacturers do to solve this problem -- if I were the engineer, I'd create a Kalman filter and use the tank measurement and wheel sensors along with the above instantaneous measurement to create a more accurate model. In the end, though, it's not going to be as accurate as how people do it by hand. But I think this is a good idea of why car engineers route everything through the ECU, as it can do interesting stuff with data from multiple sensors.

By "fuel cutoff" I think you mean shutting off the pump when refueling? That one is different. The car doesn't tell the pump when to shut off, it's the pump that determines when the tank is full and stops pumping. If you look at the nozzle, there's a hole near the tip that detects when fuel has come back up the filler tube, which should only happen when the tank is full. Imagine sticking your finger in a cup to know when to stop pouring in water (which, incidentally, is exactly what blind people do).

Of course, nothing is quite that simple. As fuel goes into the tank, the gasses (fumes from the fuel, mostly) in the tank have to be displaced somewhere. For emissions control, we don't want these fumes escaping into the atmosphere. Instead, when refueling your tank, there's an internal venting system that recaptures fuel from the vapors, keeping everything inside the car. If this system gets backed up (a clogged valve, saturated carbon filter, etc), the fumes can't vent properly, and fuel backs up the filler tube even though the tank isn't full ... shutting off the pump prematurely. The current theory is that there's something wrong with this venting system that's causing the refueling problem that people are reporting.

It's possible (even likely) the ECU is involved in the venting process on the RAV4. The car seems to be doing something special when opening the fuel door, there's a limited time allowed to refuel, and more to indicate that it's trying to do something fancy. There's lots of things that could be going wrong with the refueling process that could result in the behavior people are seeing.
That seems to be the case for me. I was able to remove the nozzle and let the pressure equalize. Then I was able to add two more gallons and the gauge read full just (before) the Rav4 was in a head on collision with a vehicle going 90 mph escaping from the police. That's another story.
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