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So I was able to add some more data to the tank data (most of it seems to be consistent with what I've been observing from before)...

Before I start I filled my car before this "run" and the after autoshutoff I didn't put more fuel in. DTE was 408 miles to empty, and needle was a tick below full.

I hit 0 DTE at 387 miles driven, and then drove another 107 miles below the E mark for a total range driven of 494 miles. I was able to run an ODBII to measure the car ECU data for the mass air flow rate and calculate the mpg as well as fuel used. Measuring from the moment my car hit empty, I was able to drive just over 2.4 gallons worth of gas below the empty mark before my car started to feel sluggish but the engine didn't shut off, and I just happened to be driving 1 mile circles around the gas station for 40 minutes so I figured it was getting late and pulled in to fill my car.

Considering that this was the 4th time my low fuel light turned on at 27 miles distance to empty I'm speculating my specific car has it set to turn on at 27 miles regardless of the mpg fuel efficiency. This puts about 3 gallons remaining when the low fuel light comes on for my car.

The pump shut off at 13.7 gallons of fuel put in, and when I got into the car to check, it said DTE of 432 miles with the needle a hair above the F mark. I was able to trickle in slowly to get another 1 gallon in and the fuel pump showed 14.9 gallons, and the DTE after this was 494 miles to empty and the needle was well past full about 2 ticks. This seems to not add up for some reason, but who knows. For what it's worth, last time when I filled up from pretty much at Empty exactly, I was able to get in 10.8 gallons and the DTE showed 436 miles to empty with the needle pointing at F. With a fuel reserve of 2.4 gallons + 10.8 gallons seems to come close to how much I was able to pump in from pretty much empty. So in my case there's about 1-1.5 gallons above the needle at which computer can't seem to accurately represent.

1.5 gallons above F mark + 10.8 gallons from F to empty + 2.4 gallons below the Empty mark gives approximately 14.7 gallons, give or take 0.3 gallons. This is my best guess on how it's supposed to work. There are times where the pump will shut off AT the full mark, and other times it shuts off a tick or 2 before it, giving me a DTE of 380-430 miles to empty if I don't pump more gas in after the auto shut off.

Come to think of it we have a lot of data from people whose RAV4s have the filling issue, but there are also people who believe that they don't have an issue or their car can actually fill up with at least 12.3 gallons from the 0 DTE mark on the gauge, and we need more data from the people who have RAV4 hybrids that don't have any issues (like those that have the pump shut off and DTE reads well above 530 miles or something). It's weird because why would you put your car through tests or drive it way past "refuel now" when you feel that your car is one of the working ones right? I think it would be helpful if people posted pictures or video of their car filling up properly so that the rest of us with issues can be certain that our car is having problems or not.
Exactly the same as my car.
Pretty much exactly the same as every other car report on here.

Shaping up to be one illness with multiple symptoms. Not "some people have this problem and others have that problem". People just focus on different things.
 

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So I was able to add some more data to the tank data (most of it seems to be consistent with what I've been observing from before)...

Before I start I filled my car before this "run" and the after autoshutoff I didn't put more fuel in. DTE was 408 miles to empty, and needle was a tick below full.

I hit 0 DTE at 387 miles driven, and then drove another 107 miles below the E mark for a total range driven of 494 miles. I was able to run an ODBII to measure the car ECU data for the mass air flow rate and calculate the mpg as well as fuel used. Measuring from the moment my car hit empty, I was able to drive just over 2.4 gallons worth of gas below the empty mark before my car started to feel sluggish but the engine didn't shut off, and I just happened to be driving 1 mile circles around the gas station for 40 minutes so I figured it was getting late and pulled in to fill my car.

Considering that this was the 4th time my low fuel light turned on at 27 miles distance to empty I'm speculating my specific car has it set to turn on at 27 miles regardless of the mpg fuel efficiency. This puts about 3 gallons remaining when the low fuel light comes on for my car.

The pump shut off at 13.7 gallons of fuel put in, and when I got into the car to check, it said DTE of 432 miles with the needle a hair above the F mark. I was able to trickle in slowly to get another 1 gallon in and the fuel pump showed 14.9 gallons, and the DTE after this was 494 miles to empty and the needle was well past full about 2 ticks. This seems to not add up for some reason, but who knows. For what it's worth, last time when I filled up from pretty much at Empty exactly, I was able to get in 10.8 gallons and the DTE showed 436 miles to empty with the needle pointing at F. With a fuel reserve of 2.4 gallons + 10.8 gallons seems to come close to how much I was able to pump in from pretty much empty. So in my case there's about 1-1.5 gallons above the needle at which computer can't seem to accurately represent.

1.5 gallons above F mark + 10.8 gallons from F to empty + 2.4 gallons below the Empty mark gives approximately 14.7 gallons, give or take 0.3 gallons. This is my best guess on how it's supposed to work. There are times where the pump will shut off AT the full mark, and other times it shuts off a tick or 2 before it, giving me a DTE of 380-430 miles to empty if I don't pump more gas in after the auto shut off.

Come to think of it we have a lot of data from people whose RAV4s have the filling issue, but there are also people who believe that they don't have an issue or their car can actually fill up with at least 12.3 gallons from the 0 DTE mark on the gauge, and we need more data from the people who have RAV4 hybrids that don't have any issues (like those that have the pump shut off and DTE reads well above 530 miles or something). It's weird because why would you put your car through tests or drive it way past "refuel now" when you feel that your car is one of the working ones right? I think it would be helpful if people posted pictures or video of their car filling up properly so that the rest of us with issues can be certain that our car is having problems or not.
I did a similar test, but ran all the way to empty (meaning, the engine actually shut off). I have a reserve of 3.25 gallons at empty, the pump will naturally fill 13.75 gallons from empty to the full mark, and there's room for another 0.75 gallons over the full mark to get to 14.5 gallons total. Similar to yours, but maybe there's more reserve than you think?

Your DTE is further evidence of something I've been noticing. The difference between E and F is about 10.5 gallons, but DTE seems to think it's about 12.25. Imagine the fuel tank reporting its level as a precent full, with E as 0% and F as 100%. The DTE is calculated at MPG*level*12.25. This is how it should be calculated, but it's different than how the fuel gauge works so it's inaccurate. It also partially explains why DTE is even more inaccurate above full, as the level will be exaggerated by an extra 17%.

Here's the ultimate test, in my mind:
  • Drive until the tank is completely empty and the engine shuts off. Get to a gas station on EV mode.
  • Fill at full speed. Record gallons pumped and fuel gauge level.
  • Continue filling at slowest speed to exactly 14.5 gallons. Record the experience (how hard this was, etc.) Record fuel gauge level and DTE.
  • Reset trip odometer.
  • At each major milestone (F, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, low fuel light, E, DTE=0), record the trip meter, tank average MPG, and DTE.
  • Drive to empty again. Record final tank average MPG and trip odometer.
  • Repeat with multiple cars with different symptoms.
That's lots of work, but it would be great data.
 

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Perhaps the difference between "full-full" and just near full (needle pointing at F) is about 50-80 miles, approximately 1.2 to 2 gallons. Because our mpg is relatively high for a hybrid vehicle on the market, the difference we see is exaggerated along with the fact that the needle is visibly below the F mark. I'm wondering whether other manufacturer of vehicles have this % range of tolerance for filling up the tank (being able to fill up only 86-92% of nominal capacity). I know the EPA emissions requirement is being able to fill to at least 90% of nominal tank capacity, but considering that the rav4 hybrid already seems to operate at the bare minimum if not dropping below that as many have reported, there is obviously an issue with a number of things on the car such as DTE, the fuel meter, and the tank fuel pressure causing premature pump shutoff.

My most common "first click" fillups have usually left me in the range of 430 miles to empty (which is below my two times dealer filled range of 560 and 484 miles, or over 500 miles if I trickle fill after shutoff), but on a number of occasions I've also had way below that with the needle visibly below F (387, 408, and 414, and 422 miles to empty)
 

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Did you guys see that Toyota is working on a new fuel tank or you can go with "interim" fix. IMO waste of breath with more assumptions and calculations with the current defective tanks. Hopefully it won't take them a year to roll a new part out
 

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Yes, the pump's flow rate is a factor only in that it exceeds Toyota's fuel tank vent system's capacity to accept fuel. In other words, it's not the pump flow rate that's the problem here. Almost 30,000 miles and 67 fill ups later in my actual 2019 Rav4H I own, with tons of experimentation and experience and not bluster or conjecture from simply readng forums, I'm 2-3 gallons (or to put it another way, 80-120 miles) short on the first click consistently using the lowest automatic fill setting on the pump handle. That. Ain't. Right.
 

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so, as many advice out there, we never should go over the 1st click, anyone ran into the issue of overfill yet??
I put in 1.5 - 2.0 gal past the first click all the time, never try to push for the last half gallom. I've never had fuel back up in the filler tube. This takes me, at most, an extra two minutes at the pump. I'm very thankful I'm not as stressed about this as many other folks even though I get so about other issues.
 

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Yes, the pump's flow rate is a factor only in that it exceeds Toyota's fuel tank vent system's capacity to accept fuel. In other words, it's not the pump flow rate that's the problem here. Almost 30,000 miles and 67 fill ups later in my actual 2019 Rav4H I own, with tons of experimentation and experience and not bluster or conjecture from simply readng forums, I'm 2-3 gallons (or to put it another way, 80-120 miles) short on the first click consistently using the lowest automatic fill setting on the pump handle. That. Ain't. Right.
So for 30k miles and 67 fill-ups you averaged 447 miles between fill-ups or at least 11 gallons per fill up, right?
 

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Yes, the pump's flow rate is a factor only in that it exceeds Toyota's fuel tank vent system's capacity to accept fuel. In other words, it's not the pump flow rate that's the problem here. Almost 30,000 miles and 67 fill ups later in my actual 2019 Rav4H I own, with tons of experimentation and experience and not bluster or conjecture from simply readng forums, I'm 2-3 gallons (or to put it another way, 80-120 miles) short on the first click consistently using the lowest automatic fill setting on the pump handle. That. Ain't. Right.
I agree, it's not right AND Toyota has admitted that it's a manufacturing defect. If it was as simple as the redundant hypotheses offered by those defending Toyota and demeaning consumers, Toyota would have already produced a repair. Toyota has not devised a repair after nearly eight months, so much of the conjecture here about consumers doing something wrong while pumping gas into a vehicle is off-putting and worthless.

149607
 

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So for 30k miles and 67 fill-ups you averaged 447 miles between fill-ups or at least 11 gallons per fill up, right?
I do top off, squeezing in the extra 2-3 each time, so there's that. If you can see my Fuelly, you'll see the miles driven between fill ups.
 

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Apparently the flow rate at different gas pumps affects the situation. So it only makes sense to blame them. Recall all their nozzles and insert "Toyota" flow restrictors?
 

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Apparently the flow rate at different gas pumps affects the situation. So it only makes sense to blame them. Recall all their nozzles and insert "Toyota" flow restrictors?
Is that what you got from my post?
 

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No, it was based on many members' experiences, and my own the other day, but mostly in jest.
Looking at your sig, it doesn't appear so, but do you own a 2019-2020 Rav4H?
 

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Looking at your sig, it does't appear so, but do you own a 2019-2020 Rav4H?
No I don't but am waiting for someone to get so frustrated they'll sell me theirs cheap. Would be a stablemate for my '18 HAH, neither of which I really need.
Meantime I do my high paid moderating job of keeping folks from "riding" each other too much while tossing in a few helpful tidbits here & there. I also do some spell editing like replacing your does't with doesn't.
 

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No I don't but am waiting for someone to get so frustrated they'll sell me theirs cheap. Would be a stablemate for my '18 HAH, neither of which I really need.
Meantime I do my high paid moderating job of keeping folks from "riding" each other too much while tossing in a few helpful tidbits here & there. I also do some spell editing like replacing your does't with doesn't.
Are you grading our posts also? After all, this is just a car furom.:)
 

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