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He said "sounds like SOFTWARE "
"Toyota is really good at fixing these things, but SW will take awhile, Due to testing/validation needed "

Oh wow...
Code:
var my_vin_number = '1Z143245632434325346';

function ToFillTheTankToFull
{
     while(true)
    {
             if(Check_Excluded_VINs(my_vin_number))
        {
           break;
        }

         Execute_Pain_And_Suffering_With_Fill_Ups();
    }
}
 

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Repeating myself and also some others as well, but I can't agree. DTE is an adaptive system--it adjusts it's readings based on past driving experience. Unless you are driving the exact some places in exactly the same way on every tank, that's going to vary--at least until some time passes and the average driving experience gets worked out.

I get the concern, and it is mixed up in the tank fill issue I agree. But if what I reading indicates people think DTE should be consistent and fixed dependent on how many gallons are in the tank etc. they aren't understanding the system properly.
My 2012 Venza did exactly the same thing. The DTE adapted to the MPG that I was getting. We had a Mazda CX—7, same thing. Both our 2016 and 2019 RAV4 operate the same way.
 

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Had the 5000 mile service today.
Talked with SA, he knew nothing about fuel issues.
Talked with the Tech after vehicle pickup, he has heard about it.
Said, very un-likely the tank is a bladder design ( We have learned our lesson with That !!! )

Told him fuel sensors were replaced and calibrated, gas tanks replaced and calibrated...
He said "sounds like SOFTWARE "
"Toyota is really good at fixing these things, but SW will take awhile, Due to testing/validation needed "

Oh wow...
He said "sounds like SOFTWARE "

Not sure how software would physically prevent tank from filling up. Hence my thought that Toyota does not understand what issue we all are having.......Also strange that even after this much time dealers are saying never heard of these issues....not feeling hopeful for a quick fix.
 

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Using Hybrid Assistant to (hopefully more accurately) monitor amount of fuel in the tank:

With an OBDII bluetooth enabled adapter plugged into the under dash diagnostic port, you can use apps on your phone to get lots of info.

When the 2019 Rav4 Hybrid was released the Hybrid Assistant app did not work with it. Then the HA website said it would work but apparently that was only tested on a European model. Through communication with the developer, I received a fix and tried out the app today.

Bottom line, it now works including a readout of tank fuel level. Based on my experience of using a similar way of monitoring fuel level in my Prius, this should be a reading of all fuel in the tank, not the amount over DTE zero or when the fuel needle is at E.

Here is a screenshot of how the display works (from their web site, not my vehicle), in the U.S. the figures are in gallons and miles:

145266


If anyone else wants to try it. Let me know whether the app work for you. Hybrid Assistant recommends using the OBDLink LX adapter which is about $50 on Amazon. There are cheaper ones but I can't vouch for them. If the app doesn't work, PM me and I can send instructions on how to fix it (or you can contact the developer yourself). I assume the app will be updated on the play store at some point. It is an Android only app.

I can't test this fully right away, We are not putting a lot of miles on our vehicle right now. I'm very curious what it will say at DTE zero and when I fill up. Maybe others can test it quicker, I hope it helps us learn more.

I will drive enough tomorrow to see if the fuel level display is changing as expected.
 

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Very happy with the Rav4. In my driving regime, I'm never far from a fueling point, in spite of living in a rural area. The fueling issue, while very real and quite bizarre in its capricious manner of manifesting, is an eccentricity (bordering on a mechanical challenge) that I can live with. The Rav4 package is spectacular.

I'm keeping a spreadsheet of mileage, per tank fill and historical accrued mpg, along with accompanying screenshots of each fueling event.

With one (one out of ten) exception, my fueling has put the fuel gauge needle above the "F", to the point where the needle is clear of the "F" line mark.

That does not include the New Vehicle pickup day where the dealer fueled the auto, in Oregon, and did not get the tank quite full.

The mpg, the DTE, all of it makes sense and falls out in the wash. IOW, it all lines up with math.

Long trips at 70 and 80 MPH inflict serious damage on the DTE as well as the MPG. The DTE (and MPG) recovers rather respectably with local "hyper driving" where coasting, local slower speeds, combined with careful acceleration can be employed.
 

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Since this sounds like your first fill up see what happens after that. My first fill up was fine also but each one afterwards has not been.
I just took my Rav4 Hybrid in for the 5000 mile checkup. I told the service manager about problems with filling the gas tank. She called Toyota and they acknowledged the problem. They are working on a fix and said it will probably be a recall matter.
 

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Hopefully anyone with this well-known problem has called Toyota Corporate at 800-331-4331 and their dealer service department to report and describe their problem. Please report any solutions or proposed solutions to this thread. As for me, I’m still waiting for some significant movement from Toyota but hopefully, if all of us with this issue keep the pressure on, this will get fixed.

I’m assuming the other thread apparently was getting too large and thus was closed to new replies. I have asked but haven’t yet gotten any response at https://www.rav4world.com/forums/autoguide-forum-support-help-rav4world.145/

You are absolutely right and and after reading your last post (at which point they seemed to have shut the thread down) I called 800–331-4331 and opened a case (1909052685). The agent did look to see if there was anything out on this yet and there is not. I haven't been to the dealer yet, I'm only at 1500 miles, I'm waiting for the 5k service.

The other thing I wanted to ask (I read the previous thread before but things a monster is about DTE calculation. I believe, that in accordance with the owner's manual, the DTE is based on your current average mileage, as such the only way to get to 540 or 560 DTE on 12.3 gallons (tank minus 2.2 reserve) is to have something like 45 MPG, which I never get, even on ECO.

Does anyone really know how DTE is calculated. I mean, what if I reset the average just before fill up and it's some wacky number, like 20 or 65?
 

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The other thing I wanted to ask (I read the previous thread before but things a monster is about DTE calculation. I believe, that in accordance with the owner's manual, the DTE is based on your current average mileage, as such the only way to get to 540 or 560 DTE on 12.3 gallons (tank minus 2.2 reserve) is to have something like 45 MPG, which I never get, even on ECO.

Does anyone really know how DTE is calculated. I mean, what if I reset the average just before fill up and it's some wacky number, like 20 or 65?
The DTE is a dynamic calculation.

Had occasion, recently, to do a road trip, 600 + miles round-trip.

Hammered the DTE and MPG with extended periods at speeds of 70 MPH to 80 MPH. Upon arrival back home, MPG was 34.5.

The refuel upon arrival produced a DTE of 476. Until this road trip, the DTE's were regularly in the 570's & 560's.

Local driving and the next fueling produced a DTE of 542. Today, multiple errands to town and home, the DTE had managed to decrease; without keeping a hawks eye on it, I do know at one point I noticed it was down to 492.

A bit later, another errand, the DTE had reset itself to 540. The MPG is hovering at or above 50.

So now you know.
 

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I did my first fill-up since I took delivery, held my breath and so far lucky that I dont have the fuel issue(knock on wood as I don't want it either). I filled up when the needle read 1/4 tank as I didn't want to run it down to E, I did roughly 650 Km's on the 3/4 of the tank and when I filled up I pumped a little over 31L's into the tank, based on the gauge at a quarter tank I had roughly 23 liters remaining with 180 kms DTE showing.. I wanted to see how it reacted to fueling so after I took the filler cap off I gave it a second or two to breath, then I fueled normally at the max flo of the nozzle, did one top off until the next kick off then stopped.
 

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Is it possible that the vapor recovery system are faulty? Causing premature pump shut off? If so then Toyota will have to fix the problem ASAP.. Federal law. next person to get their tank checked needs to ask Toyota to check the Vapor recovery system?
 

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I have this issue as well. Have never been able to fill up more than 10 gallons, even when the DTE was in single digits. Took my car in for the 5K service and had the technician take a look. He called a couple of his buddies over to ask if anyone ever hear of this issue and, of course, they all said they didn't. One guy did say he had someone in the day before complaining about the issue but didn't know if there was any resolution.

Day 1: tech went and did a fill up. Acknowledged that it stopped just under full. Ran some tests - said it was normal. I didn't agree so they said they'll keep my car an extra day to look again. I said I needed the car the next day so I made an appointment for the following day. At that time, fuel gauge read just under full with a DTE of 410.
Day 3: went back and showed that I drove 50 miles. The gauge was at exactly 3/4 tank with a DTE of 336. Told the service rep that the math didn't add up. If I really had a full tank and drove 50 miles and was left with 3/4 of a tank, then ~14/4 = 3.5 gallons used. 50 miles/3.5 gallons = ~14.25 mpg. So, either the tank wasn't really full or the EPA numbers were ridiculously off.

So, the tech filled up again and said the gauge read way over full. DTE = 410. According to the invoice, he took out the fuel delivery unit and tested the voltage. All read normal. Said there wasn't an issue and the gauge was way past full. Closed the case.

I didn't get to the service department until after everyone had left so I couldn't get a chance to refute their claims. I just have to trust them and see what happens during the next few fill ups.

I highly doubt anything has been fixed and will have to hope for an official TSB from Toyota. Ugh...
 

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Discussion Starter #494
As a former Marketing Communications Manager for several major corporations, I’ve seen and been involved with strategy meetings for issues like this. Sad to say that he speaks truth here but, even more sadly, it really doesn’t matter.

It doesn’t matter because, as customers, we either put up, shut up, or start making lots of noise about these warranty issues or they just will never get fixed. Trying to get future buyers (read “guests”) to not buy Toyotas because they won’t do shit about repairing warranty issues is as important as anything because, truly, the squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease.

And to all of you who are about to answer yet again that this is “no big deal”, save me the effort of telling you separately to take a flying leap. IMHO, people who don’t have this issue should just go converse about changing your lightbulbs, getting wind deflectors, and the different methods of darkening your logos.

To anyone really pondering a 2020 Rav4 hybrid, I strongly suggest looking through this and the other related “closed” thread. And then I would remind you that Toyota is already putting the same fuel system in the 2020s. I’ve been told essentially that by a Toyota Corp caseworker. Remember that you would be throwing the dice as to whether this ‘20 Rav4 hybrid may have this or other problems that Toyota is doing nothing about fixing. It is about more than getting Android compatibility. Also remember that Toyota’s history on issues like this is getting worse every day and not just with hybrids. Remember the gas models are having some major issues too.
Toyota is becoming just another car company that really doesn’t care. Good luck.
 

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So I just purchased 2019 Rav4 XSE Japanese model two weeks ago. Before I made the purchase, I had the dealer take me to the gas station and filled up to 11.5 gallons(middle of the quarter tank) to see if it would fill pass the full line without having the top off and it did. This was the biggest factor in purchasing the vehicle. That first fuel up showed a DTE of about 580miles. GREAT! Throughout the first tank I for sure didn’t get the DTE that showed on my gauge because I was experimenting with all MODES and didn’t know how to drive a hybrid.

Now I’m onto my second fill up at 396 total miles on vehicle. Filled up below at quarter mark with 63miles DTE and got up to only 490 DTE with a 9.4 gallon passing the full line. This put me at 396miles/9.4 gallons=42mpg. Great!

Now I been reading this thread and people are inquiring about having a estimated DTE of 480’s. Now if you do the math. DTE 490/40MPG=12.25 gallons. Then you factor in the 2.2 gallons reserve and add it all up, it’s roughly 14.5 gallons as advertised. Now Toyota advertises 580-590DTE, but is this something in total without showing on the gauges or is it 490 plus the reserve 2.2gallon(82miles) reserve that gets it close to 580-590DTE that we have to calculate without showing on the gauges. Either way I have a DTE of 580miles with calculating on my own.

Is this something I should even be worried about?
 

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So I just purchased 2019 Rav4 XSE Japanese model two weeks ago. Before I made the purchase, I had the dealer take me to the gas station and filled up to 11.5 gallons(middle of the quarter tank) to see if it would fill pass the full line without having the top off and it did. This was the biggest factor in purchasing the vehicle. That first fuel up showed a DTE of about 580miles. GREAT! Throughout the first tank I for sure didn’t get the DTE that showed on my gauge because I was experimenting with all MODES and didn’t know how to drive a hybrid.

Now I’m onto my second fill up at 396 total miles on vehicle. Filled up below at quarter mark with 63miles DTE and got up to only 490 DTE with a 9.4 gallon passing the full line. This put me at 396miles/9.4 gallons=42mpg. Great!

Now I been reading this thread and people are inquiring about having a estimated DTE of 480’s. Now if you do the math. DTE 490/40MPG=12.25 gallons. Then you factor in the 2.2 gallons reserve and add it all up, it’s roughly 14.5 gallons as advertised. Now Toyota advertises 580-590DTE, but is this something in total without showing on the gauges or is it 490 plus the reserve 2.2gallon(82miles) reserve that gets it close to 580-590DTE that we have to calculate without showing on the gauges. Either way I have a DTE of 580miles with calculating on my own.

Is this something I should even be worried about?
Looks like you are good to go! Go out and enjoy that XSE!
 

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Did they replace anything besides the tank?
Everything supposedly connected to the tank. Some 14 parts as part of the fuel sub assembly.

If you ever used a program like Mitchell's for repair work or dealt with insurance dsp programs they have become like mcdonalds. Mechanics repairs arent subjective, they are pretty objective now on most automakers.

Ex. If you replace this then you must replace this and that. I turned the vehicle in on wednesday and they loaned me an electric blue rav4 adventure.

Im expecting they are going to have my car for sometime as the mechanic has to wait for a field engineer and they must all work with a case engineer at toyota. Ill keep you all up to date.

My recorded mileage on a full tank before it hit E was 477mi. At 6mi to Zero on DTE i hit 501. This mileage would make sense.
 

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I've seen lots of detailed DTE analysis. Try not to over think it. My observation from the almost 7000 miles I've driven, if you're getting a DTE that's under 500 after you fill up, you didn't fill up all the way. The reason I say this is that 3 or 4 times I've filled up at a very slow pump, where it actually filled up. In those cases the DTE was around 560. The only explanation for it being 480 one time, 560 the next, and 430 the next is that the only time you really filled it up was when it said 560. The mileage is not so erratic to explain such extreme differences.
 
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