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The mileage is not so erratic to explain such extreme differences.
I can give you an example:

- Fill up and drive like I do normally around town until I have 1/4 tank left. After I fill up, my DTE is over 500.

- Right after I fill up, I take a trip down to Chicago. Doing between 80-85mph and very windy, half of the trip against the wind. During that trip, my MPG drops to 31. Next time I fill up my DTE will not be over 500. It’s also happened after towing, doing over 75mph.

I have done 34 tank fill ups. I log every single one of them. Every time the tank has been full. How do I know? Because I top it off every single time until nothing else can be pumped in and the needle is well above the “F”.

The DTE on our 2016 Hybrid fluctuates the same way. It did the same on our 2012 Venza.
 

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... if you're getting a DTE that's under 500 after you fill up, you didn't fill up all the way.
I'm not sure if this is true. I've done a lot of high speed (80-85mph) freeway driving on my car and it gets around 37-38mpg under these conditions. Filling the tank on these long trips (Bend,OR to Phoenix and back 3 times) gives me a DTE of around 475 and I know the tank is full (needle width above full mark).

When I drive around my house I get around 45mpg and when filling up during these drives the DTE is low to mid 500's.

The DTE is in part determined by past MPG. High MPG history gives you higher DTE numbers (assuming the tank is always filled).
 

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If I were unhappy to the extent of a few here, I’d be talking to a lemon law attorney. Toyota or any other car company is unlikely to move quickly enough on this or any other similar issue to satisfy you. Start the lemoning process now. Make sure you understand what the definition of “Lemon” is in your state because it’s not the same in every state.

This is how Oregon defines a lemon new car. Without talking to an attorney I’m not sure the problem we’re seeing rises to the level of “lemon”. Something isn’t working the way we expect it to work, but that’s not the same as “not working”.

To qualify for protection under Oregon’s Lemon Law:
  • A part or system under warranty must not be working. The problem must be significant enough to substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value or safety.
  • Each malfunction must be reported to the manufacturer or dealer. They will have an opportunity to fix the problem.
  • At least three failed attempts to fix the problem must be made (at least one attempt if the problem is likely to cause injury or death), or the vehicle must be in the shop for a combined total of 30 or more calendar days (60 or more calendar days for a motor home).
Note: Oregon does not have a three-day right of cancellation for vehicle purchases. So unless it is in your sales contract, you cannot return your vehicle without a legal reason.

If you have been sold a lemon, contact a private attorney to discuss your options.


I no longer leave the “DTE” screen on all the time. Changing it to something else helps relieve some of my OCD so I can more fully enjoy my awesome new car. :) DTE is just a number and as it turns out not a particularly accurate or reliable number.
 

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If I were unhappy to the extent of a few here, I’d be talking to a lemon law attorney. Toyota or any other car company is unlikely to move quickly enough on this or any other similar issue to satisfy you. Start the lemoning process now. Make sure you understand what the definition of “Lemon” is in your state because it’s not the same in every state.

This is how Oregon defines a lemon new car. Without talking to an attorney I’m not sure the problem we’re seeing rises to the level of “lemon”. Something isn’t working the way we expect it to work, but that’s not the same as “not working”.

To qualify for protection under Oregon’s Lemon Law:
  • A part or system under warranty must not be working. The problem must be significant enough to substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value or safety.
  • Each malfunction must be reported to the manufacturer or dealer. They will have an opportunity to fix the problem.
  • At least three failed attempts to fix the problem must be made (at least one attempt if the problem is likely to cause injury or death), or the vehicle must be in the shop for a combined total of 30 or more calendar days (60 or more calendar days for a motor home).
Note: Oregon does not have a three-day right of cancellation for vehicle purchases. So unless it is in your sales contract, you cannot return your vehicle without a legal reason.

If you have been sold a lemon, contact a private attorney to discuss your options.


I no longer leave the “DTE” screen on all the time. Changing it to something else helps relieve some of my OCD so I can more fully enjoy my awesome new car. :) DTE is just a number and as it turns out not a particularly accurate or reliable number.
I am 99% happy with the car. It would be nice if a fix was out before winter. But I doubt it will. I’ll just have to spend an extra few minutes filling up when it’s chilly. But that is me. If it was my wife’s car I would be furious about it and at the dealership every day. Again, that’s just me.

Personally, I am not worried about the DTE number. I just want to be able to get a full tank without extra effort every time I go to the pump.

For now, I’ll bug them over the phone every 2 weeks and will get ready for the winter.
 

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This is how Oregon defines a lemon new car. Without talking to an attorney I’m not sure the problem we’re seeing rises to the level of “lemon”. Something isn’t working the way we expect it to work, but that’s not the same as “not working”.

To qualify for protection under Oregon’s Lemon Law:
  • A part or system under warranty must not be working. The problem must be significant enough to substantially reduce the vehicle’s use, value or safety.
  • Each malfunction must be reported to the manufacturer or dealer. They will have an opportunity to fix the problem.
  • At least three failed attempts to fix the problem must be made (at least one attempt if the problem is likely to cause injury or death), or the vehicle must be in the shop for a combined total of 30 or more calendar days (60 or more calendar days for a motor home).
Note: Oregon does not have a three-day right of cancellation for vehicle purchases. So unless it is in your sales contract, you cannot return your vehicle without a legal reason.

If you have been sold a lemon, contact a private attorney to discuss your options.
A forum member located in Oregon had Toyota buy back his RAV4 hybrid using Oregon's Lemon Law over the short fill issue. The info can be found in the now closed thread. If he's still active on this thread, perhaps he'll chime in.
 

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A forum member located in Oregon had Toyota buy back his RAV4 hybrid using Oregon's Lemon Law over the short fill issue. The info can be found in the now closed thread. If he's still active on this thread, perhaps he'll chime in.
That’s interesting. If he was that unhappy and got satisfaction via lemon law, then he won. I’m not yet prepared to use up what’s left of my brain cells to start seriously pursuing that course of action.
 

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Looks like we still have not made any progress since I joined in on this topic back in June....

Anyways an update on my experience and from my caseworker, no new revelations just more confirmation this really is not a priority at all for Toyota.

History
  • Experienced issues with fuel system from day 1, ignored it for about a month and a half but it got worse to the point where I was getting shorted up to 1/4 tank of gas at the pump.
  • Called, went to dealer for diagnosis, suggested fuel sending unit needs replacement, ordered will install next visit.
  • Next visit dropped off the car, work not performed - dealer apparently forgot why I dropped it off and just did an inspection???
  • Next visit sending unit replaced
  • After testing for about a month car is much more functional, gas gauge actually somewhat works but still missing ~2 gallons of gas per fill
New Stuff
  • Reported the issue to Toyota again told to take the car into the dealer
  • Dealer found nothing wrong
  • Called Toyota again, got a case manager assigned (really it took this long?)
  • Case manger claims:
    • This is a known issue with the 2019s
    • They have issued no bulletins and not shared this information with dealers unless a customer initiates a complaint.
    • They do not have a fix but will definitely be working on one...
    • There is absolutely nothing I can do but wait, no more repair attempts will be made
In any case I'm obviously not happy with the responses Toyota has been giving to any of us. I'm perfectly fine if there is a problem and they are working on it however; not advertising the problem via TSB or other communication, not informing dealerships so they stop wasting their time on trying to fix it, not informing customers there is an issue, and not providing anyway to track it or any real corrective action plan is unacceptable at this point. To continue selling the vehicle without any real acknowledgement of the problem is just fraud at this point.


I'm either taking or have already taken the following actions and I suggest everyone do the same. Even if you aren't willing to completely follow through with the actions required to fullfill all of these the more complaints that get logged the more this will spread.
  • Contacting CARB to inform them Toyota is knowingly selling and not repairing a potentially non-compliant vehicle
  • Submitting a complaint to the FTC
  • Submitting a complaint to the NHTSA
  • Submitting a Lemon law claim - California lemon law says "4 or a reasonable number of repair attempts" if no more repair attempts are to be made then we are past a reasonable number
  • Contacting the attorney General

I know some of these links have been posted before but here they are again.
CARB
(800) END SMOG
(800) 363-7664
[email protected]
FTC
NHTSA
California Lemon Law - Toyota
https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/toyota_brochure.pdf - Note the PDF is backwards Page 2 = Page 1 for some reason...
California Attorney General

Good luck folks
 

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Welcome to Capitalism.

When the direct cost(s) that can be associated with NOT addressing this issue and providing a resolution exceed the direct costs of repair, then, and only then, will Toyota contemplate R & D as well as a resolution for repair of the issue.

In the mean time . . . . . thank you for playing,

Johnny, tell our guests what they've won.
 

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Welcome to Capitalism.

When the direct cost(s) that can be associated with NOT addressing this issue and providing a resolution exceed the direct costs of repair, then, and only then, will Toyota contemplate R & D as well as a resolution for repair of the issue.

In the mean time . . . . . thank you for playing,

Johnny, tell our guests what they've won.
Or until the regulators speak up which in today's environment is doubtful.
 

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Hopefully anyone with this well-known problem has called Toyota Corporate at 800-331-4331 and their dealer service department to report and describe their problem. Please report any solutions or proposed solutions to this thread. As for me, I’m still waiting for some significant movement from Toyota but hopefully, if all of us with this issue keep the pressure on, this will get fixed.

I’m assuming the other thread apparently was getting too large and thus was closed to new replies. I have asked but haven’t yet gotten any response at https://www.rav4world.com/forums/autoguide-forum-support-help-rav4world.145/
Just got my 2019 xse today and the dealer filled it up and said absolutely no problem and it did say full on the guage
 

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Discussion Starter #511
Just got my 2019 xse today and the dealer filled it up and said absolutely no problem and it did say full on the guage
Can it get to read as “full”? Yes. What’s it take to get there and just what “full” means is very open to question.
Earlier this week, I was about 3 hours from home. Had a quarter tank left. Went to a gas station and, as usual, carefully ran the pump on the lowest setting til it clicked off. Stood there for another couple of minutes attempting to get to “full”. Finally seemed I couldn’t get any more in so I got in and started the Rav and it was still way below “full”. Frustrated, I drove about 200 feet to a store, did some shopping, and decided to go back to the station. Stood there for another minute or two trying to, carefully, fill it up. I had added just over another .8 of a gallon. Got back in Rav and it was just a hair above “full”. I got back to the interstate and within 25 miles the gauge went from just over “full” to well under “full” within another 50, it was at 3/4 tank. I generally drive interstate between 70 -75 mph. I don’t even bother looking at DTE because it’s a truly meaningless feature/figure.
 

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. . . . . drive interstate between 70 -75 mph. I don’t even bother looking at DTE because it’s a truly meaningless feature/figure.
As I mentioned in a previous comment, I had occasion for a road trip. I didn't even bother concerning myself with MPG or "DTE" as I knew I was gonna hammer the speed limit and "ideal" cruising speed scenario. With some 'typical' San Francisco South and East Bay Area traffic congestion which enable the RAV4 to keep the MPG around 40 . . . . I-80, I-505, and I-5 provided ample opportunity to mash the gas. At one point, the cruise was set to 82 MPH (which, given the speedo error) probably had me clocking a radar gun at around 77 or 78 MPH. When I pulled into the driveway, the MPG was a proud 34.5. More than twice what it would have been with my 3.4L V6 '98 Tacoma.

The strength of the RAV4 Hybrid is its knock-about-town miserly consumption of fuel.

Out on the big road, it's just another four-wheeler that has much competition that matches or outshine its mileage stats and capabilities.
 

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Discussion Starter #513
Welcome to Capitalism.

When the direct cost(s) that can be associated with NOT addressing this issue and providing a resolution exceed the direct costs of repair, then, and only then, will Toyota contemplate R & D as well as a resolution for repair of the issue.

In the mean time . . . . . thank you for playing,

Johnny, tell our guests what they've won.
Not true. This is not capitalism. It’s lies if you sell customers a car and one of the selling points is that you have a significant warranty (a written guarantee, issued to the purchaser of an article by its manufacturer, promising to repair or replace it if necessary within a specified period of time.) and then do nothing to fix what you warranted. The manufacturer’s costs of repair are fixed (percentage of anticipated potential damage/repair) into the cost of the vehicle.
 

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Here’s a new one! I told my dealer that I decided to wait until Toyota comes out with a TSB and an actual fix. Here is what he said:

The gas fill issue isn't on all the Rav4s and is just a small little spring that took us like 4 minutes to replace on the one rav4 hybrid we sold that needed it. I wouldn’t even consider it an issue.
 

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A pretty big update from me but I'll elaborate more when I get back to my PC. I was able to finally run my rav4 limited hybrid out of gas near the beach, and it actually told me to pull over within 1 mile since my engine stopped (I'm guessing it was running on battery at this point). There was a distance measure on the screen showing I had 0.9 miles left to go before the car shuts down due to safety reasons. My accelerator was starting to lose power intermittently as most cars do when you run them out of gas.

I filled up a bit with my reserve gas can and drove to the gas station, where I was able to pump in 14.05 gallons (my tank was replaced so it doesnt autoshutoff until it's full now).
 

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Here’s a new one! I told my dealer that I decided to wait until a Toyota comes out with a TSB and an accrual fix. Here is what he said:

The gas fill issue isn't on all the Rav4s and is just a small little spring that took us like 4 minutes to replace on the one rav4 hybrid we sold that needed it. I wouldn’t even consider it an issue.
Lol is this really the fix we are waiting for?
 

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Not true. This is not capitalism. It’s lies . . . .
Well, I'm not going to get into an argument with you over the bald facts of the matter.

Capitalism IS LIES and without those lies it is little more than hollow myths and puffed up fairy tales of promises piled on top of polished bullshit if you drink this beer and use this body lotion and wear this cologne you'll have beautiful women falling all over you. . . . . or may my grandmother be struck by lightning. /Joe Isuzu

If you truly believe capitalism is anything other than bullshit and lies, you just aren't old enough or simply haven't been paying attention.
 

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My recent two experiences:

#1. Deliberately went to a local Chevron known for painfully slow gas injection. I was able to get an DTE 560 miles. I also met a fellow Rav4 owner who had the exact same model as mine: LE Hybrid. I asked him if he experienced any issue with refueling. He said he wasn't aware of such thing.

#2. Today I went to my usual Chevron. DTE was 50 before refilling. I painfully controlled the injection speed to be very low, and the entire process took forever (5 minutes?). Then magic happened: I was able to refill 12.0+ gallons, and DTE became 607 miles.

For the past 4 months, I was never able to refill more than 10 gallons (even after refuel light on), and DTE after refuel widely ranged from 430 ~ 520. Each gas station trip was like buying a lottery ticket...
 

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A pretty big update from me but I'll elaborate more when I get back to my PC. I was able to finally run my rav4 limited hybrid out of gas near the beach, and it actually told me to pull over within 1 mile since my engine stopped (I'm guessing it was running on battery at this point). There was a distance measure on the screen showing I had 0.9 miles left to go before the car shuts down due to safety reasons. My accelerator was starting to lose power intermittently as most cars do when you run them out of gas.

I filled up a bit with my reserve gas can and drove to the gas station, where I was able to pump in 14.05 gallons (my tank was replaced so it doesnt autoshutoff until it's full now).
How big was the reserve gas can?
 
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