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So heres a few pics of my fillups after I got my Rav4 "Fixed" by Toyota:
145399

145400

Take this pic with a grain of salt; my effective MPG was calculated by using the distance travelled since last fillup divided by the gallons pumped in. This is under the assumption that the tank is filled to full. In the event that the pump prematurely stopped, or in the case of the tank being filled up to 413 DTE, it was a really hot day, so I dunno if that affected how much fuel was pumped in due to volume expansion. For example, if I travelled 300 miles, then somehow was only able to add 1 gallon before it shut off, I would have an erroneous calculation of 300 mpg.
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I think the pictures probably speak for themselves, but it seems that on the last fillup before I ran out of gas the needle is slightly below the Full mark (not as bad as 4-5 notches below the full mark before I got it fixed) which might account for the unusually low DTE of 413 miles. Anyways, I was only able to drive no more than 492 miles before my car actually shut down as in the pics above. At first I thought I lost power to the pedal when coming out of a driveway, but during a straightaway on a long road the accelerator would often lose torque when it was depressed intermittently and sometimes it would start to slow down then speed up even when my foot was not moving. After about a minute of this my dashboard lit up with the words "STOP in a safe place within 1.5km (0.9mi)". I pulled over to the side, and tried to measure out about 0.3-0.4 gallons of gas out of my fuel can (2.5 gallon red container). I drove about 1.7 miles to the nearest Chevron and then managed to pump in 14.055 gallons with the autopump (no topping off or slow filling). So it seems that at 0.1-0.2 gallons the car cannot operate anymore as the fuel levels are too low to provide consistent injection of fuel into the engine.

It seems the DTE is somewhat based on the amount of fuel inside the tank, as it seems like my DTE was a lot lower when the needle was slightly below the full mark (keep in mind I'm not including any numbers from before I replaced my fuel tank as they were kinda off and I kept pumping more fuel in after it auto clicked off, and i often had DTE of 580, 530, 513, and 490 before it got fixed). I also noticed that it fluctuates a lot when you reset it, so I'm guessing its based on an average over your last gallon and distance travelled, although I'm sure it balances out over time. I'm also speculating its not taking the exact average of when you last reset it, as it probably takes a reading of a specific time frame of when it records fuel level vs distance travelled, so this can add to variability in its accuracy.

In case anybody was wondering why my hybrid fuel efficiency is not in the 40s, its because I've been carrying 2-3 people at a time, if not having a 50 lb bike rack and 50 lb hitch and 30 lb bike attached to the back, and driving a long backcountry road at 70 mph. In the city I'm usually getting around 40-45 mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter #522
So heres a few pics of my fillups after I got my Rav4 "Fixed" by Toyota:
View attachment 145399
View attachment 145400
Take this pic with a grain of salt; my effective MPG was calculated by using the distance travelled since last fillup divided by the gallons pumped in. This is under the assumption that the tank is filled to full. In the event that the pump prematurely stopped, or in the case of the tank being filled up to 413 DTE, it was a really hot day, so I dunno if that affected how much fuel was pumped in due to volume expansion. For example, if I travelled 300 miles, then somehow was only able to add 1 gallon before it shut off, I would have an erroneous calculation of 300.
Yeah, this is the rub. For those of us who don’t believe the gas gauge is accurate, making any mpg calculation is a toss of the dice.
 

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Here’s a new one! I told my dealer that I decided to wait until Toyota comes out with a TSB and an accrual fix. Here is what he said:

The gas fill issue isn't on all the Rav4s and is just a small little spring that took us like 4 minutes to replace on the one rav4 hybrid we sold that needed it. I wouldn’t even consider it an issue.
Is there more details on the magic "spring"?
 

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I've only had my Japan built XSE for 5 days and filled up twice, once at 7/8th full tank and the other at 1/2 full. Both times the needle went past full when I stopped at the initial click. First DTE was 532 and then dropped down to the high 400's after I started driving. Second fill up my DTE was only 466. So I guess I may not be having the fill up issue, but DTE is not in the 500's like some are seeing.
 

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You have done us a great service by running out of gas. 😉 Thank you.
How did you determine "hit empty"? Is that when DTE reaches zero and you get the refuel now message or is it based on the fuel gauge needle being on E?

Either way, you apparently went about 122 miles after "empty" which means 3+ gallons in the tank at "empty".

Does it still look like they fixed the problem by replacing the tank?

I read your past comments but it is not clear to me whether your dealer indicated whether Toyota was involved with the decision to replace the tank and if so whether Toyota suggested the repair or just approved it.
 

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Next time I’m at Saturday Market here, I’ll picket the sellers of fresh organically-grown produce and handmade jewelry and such by holding a sign accusing them of being liars and bullshitters. Likewise for local craft brewers, food cart operators, etc. After all, they’re capitalists, so therefore it follows they are liars and bullshitters.

145412
 

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You have done us a great service by running out of gas. 😉 Thank you.
How did you determine "hit empty"? Is that when DTE reaches zero and you get the refuel now message or is it based on the fuel gauge needle being on E?

Either way, you apparently went about 122 miles after "empty" which means 3+ gallons in the tank at "empty".

Does it still look like they fixed the problem by replacing the tank?

I read your past comments but it is not clear to me whether your dealer indicated whether Toyota was involved with the decision to replace the tank and if so whether Toyota suggested the repair or just approved it.
My "hit empty" is when I visually see that the needle is on the empty mark, which seems to coincide pretty close to when the DTE reaches 0 or says "Refuel now".

The service rep told me that Toyota was aware of the issue but thats on his word, I have no written concrete evidence of this. I mean at best, I'm just assuming that they did indeed somehow replace the fuel tank, whether or not that included the "magic spring" or any other parts that may have been a factor in the fuel gauge issues. At the least I've pretty much ruled out the possibility that I can still add more fuel into the tank after the auto pump shutoff by running out of gas and adding close to 14 gallons into my car without issues, whereas before I was able to still add another 2-3 gallons in and it would auto shut off multiple times. Granted, I haven't tried to pump MORE gas into my car after they "fixed" the car, as it seems that the fuel meter shows full now whenever I fill it up.

My rough guess is that while DTE seems to fluctuate too much and inaccurate for any conclusions to be made, it seems that we may be able to rely on the fuel gauge meter on the right as an indicator of how much of the tank is filled. Overall, there haven't been much observations to counter this; it seems that people can still fill in gas when the needle is below the full mark or even on it, but once past that people have spilled gas out if overfilled. Just basing it off my observations, the one time that my needle was slightly below the full mark was when I also had the lowest DTE estimate (although before I got my rav4 fixed it would show a DTE of 380 with only 3/4 tank full with the premature shutoff issue). I think people getting excited about a 550-600 DTE shouldn't get too worked up about it, since that estimate will rapidly drop based on driving habits and conditions, and doesn't seem to be too accurate at this moment. Its one of those cases where your distance to empty will only be true when you drive it to empty to find out (besides, "distance to empty" should more accurately be stated as "distance to which the estimated range that Toyota deems is reasonable for a car's fuel levels should be before the customer should refuel").
 

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I wonder if the magic spring is related to the valve that depressurizes the “specially constructed” tank when you push the button to open the fuel filler flap door.
 

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Hybrid Assistant has been updated in the Play Store, so it now works with the 2019 Rav4 Hybrid with no need for a fix.

I still don't have enough info to judge how useful the tank fuel level is. I expect to get to DTE zero tomorrow and will report back.
 

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Discussion Starter #532
My "hit empty" is when I visually see that the needle is on the empty mark, which seems to coincide pretty close to when the DTE reaches 0 or says "Refuel now".

The service rep told me that Toyota was aware of the issue but thats on his word, I have no written concrete evidence of this. I mean at best, I'm just assuming that they did indeed somehow replace the fuel tank, whether or not that included the "magic spring" or any other parts that may have been a factor in the fuel gauge issues. At the least I've pretty much ruled out the possibility that I can still add more fuel into the tank after the auto pump shutoff by running out of gas and adding close to 14 gallons into my car without issues, whereas before I was able to still add another 2-3 gallons in and it would auto shut off multiple times. Granted, I haven't tried to pump MORE gas into my car after they "fixed" the car, as it seems that the fuel meter shows full now whenever I fill it up.

My rough guess is that while DTE seems to fluctuate too much and inaccurate for any conclusions to be made, it seems that we may be able to rely on the fuel gauge meter on the right as an indicator of how much of the tank is filled. Overall, there haven't been much observations to counter this; it seems that people can still fill in gas when the needle is below the full mark or even on it, but once past that people have spilled gas out if overfilled. Just basing it off my observations, the one time that my needle was slightly below the full mark was when I also had the lowest DTE estimate (although before I got my rav4 fixed it would show a DTE of 380 with only 3/4 tank full with the premature shutoff issue). I think people getting excited about a 550-600 DTE shouldn't get too worked up about it, since that estimate will rapidly drop based on driving habits and conditions, and doesn't seem to be too accurate at this moment. Its one of those cases where your distance to empty will only be true when you drive it to empty to find out (besides, "distance to empty" should more accurately be stated as "distance to which the estimated range that Toyota deems is reasonable for a car's fuel levels should be before the customer should refuel").
I disagree that the gas gauge is accurate.
It’s time to design gas gauges to measure in actual volume. I want it specific to the half gallon at least. We should know when we have exactly 14.5 gallons to utilize.
 

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I disagree that the gas gauge is accurate.
It’s time to design gas gauges to measure in actual volume. I want it specific to the half gallon at least. We should know when we have exactly 14.5 gallons to utilize.
I mean its fine that you disagree, but is this just based on your gut feeling or do you have some kind of evidence to suggest that the gas gauge is in fact inaccurate as you say it is? It may not be the most accurate, but I don't think its all that far off. And even then, we have no way of really proving that it is or not since everyone has been using DTE which itself is an estimate and fluctuates based on a lot of dynamic variables.

All I know is that the Chevron pump tells me that I pumped in 14.05 gallons in addition to the 0.3+ gallons I added in with the reserve fuel canister. My needle is past full, but not as far past full as I've been able to get in the past before my tank fix where I force fed so much fuel it spilled out. That time, I was able to get the needle way past full. As it stands now, my tank seems to be fixed as far as being able to fill up at or very close to the full mark. As to why the meter from full to empty seems to be 10 gallons w/ 4 gallon reserve maybe thats a calibration or software issue that can be addressed.
 

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I mean its fine that you disagree, but is this just based on your gut feeling or do you have some kind of evidence to suggest that the gas gauge is in fact inaccurate as you say it is? It may not be the most accurate, but I don't think its all that far off. And even then, we have no way of really proving that it is or not since everyone has been using DTE which itself is an estimate and fluctuates based on a lot of dynamic variables.

All I know is that the Chevron pump tells me that I pumped in 14.05 gallons in addition to the 0.3+ gallons I added in with the reserve fuel canister. My needle is past full, but not as far past full as I've been able to get in the past before my tank fix where I force fed so much fuel it spilled out. That time, I was able to get the needle way past full. As it stands now, my tank seems to be fixed as far as being able to fill up at or very close to the full mark. As to why the meter from full to empty seems to be 10 gallons w/ 4 gallon reserve maybe thats a calibration or software issue that can be addressed.
Gut...but it’s hard to tell if it’s the gauge or just the whole system. As I mentioned earlier this week, I filled (as best i could) the Rav to just over the full mark. But within 25 miles, the gauge dropped like a rock to well under that full mark. Could be the tank or the gauge. Or the “spring”.
I’m certainly not questioning anything you’ve done or found. I applaud your dedication to working the problem!
 

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Went to a new Shell station as she was between a 1/4 and empty. DTE said 60. But we don't use or pay any attention to DTE.

I put in 9.58 gallons before first click and went 375.8. I was able to trickle in fuel at this station (which has been the most important part of my experience to get enough fuel load into the tank) took me about seven minutes to get to that point. The one thing I have been watching is "angle" of the vehicle. At this Shell and pump 5 at my other Shell station the front of the vehicle is sloped slightly downward. At the pump I use to fuel my Fusion (it needs to be front up slightly to get a proper fill) makes the Rav almost impossible to fill.

My gauge read a tick above the F mark. DTE showed 485 for those that care. I dont let the pump hang on the neck, I hold it there to keep the stress. Also with slow pumping I can hear the "whoosh" as the fuel comes up the neck to kick it off I still think there is an issue with the neck and how the fumes/fuel comes back up.

This is going to be a pain in the winter.
 

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This is going to be a pain in the winter.
It would be most interesting and illuminating to find out whether the bladder material is similar/identical or new compared to the 2001-2009 Prius bladder material. If ambient temperature stiffens the material, yeah, winter in cold climates should be more fun than a barrel of monkeys with dynamite strapped to their backs.
 

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At E or DTE=0, it takes 13 gallons to get full. So my reserve is 1.5 gallons. I tried the slow auto-fill and it clicked off at 11 gallons for me. I added another gallon (12.1 total) and my DTE showed 474. I had just gotten 500 miles to E. I've been averaging 38.5 MPG.
 

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So heres a few pics of my fillups after I got my Rav4 "Fixed" by Toyota:
View attachment 145399
View attachment 145400
Take this pic with a grain of salt; my effective MPG was calculated by using the distance travelled since last fillup divided by the gallons pumped in. This is under the assumption that the tank is filled to full. In the event that the pump prematurely stopped, or in the case of the tank being filled up to 413 DTE, it was a really hot day, so I dunno if that affected how much fuel was pumped in due to volume expansion. For example, if I travelled 300 miles, then somehow was only able to add 1 gallon before it shut off, I would have an erroneous calculation of 300 mpg.
View attachment 145401

View attachment 145402

View attachment 145403
View attachment 145404
View attachment 145405
View attachment 145406


I think the pictures probably speak for themselves, but it seems that on the last fillup before I ran out of gas the needle is slightly below the Full mark (not as bad as 4-5 notches below the full mark before I got it fixed) which might account for the unusually low DTE of 413 miles. Anyways, I was only able to drive no more than 492 miles before my car actually shut down as in the pics above. At first I thought I lost power to the pedal when coming out of a driveway, but during a straightaway on a long road the accelerator would often lose torque when it was depressed intermittently and sometimes it would start to slow down then speed up even when my foot was not moving. After about a minute of this my dashboard lit up with the words "STOP in a safe place within 1.5km (0.9mi)". I pulled over to the side, and tried to measure out about 0.3-0.4 gallons of gas out of my fuel can (2.5 gallon red container). I drove about 1.7 miles to the nearest Chevron and then managed to pump in 14.055 gallons with the autopump (no topping off or slow filling). So it seems that at 0.1-0.2 gallons the car cannot operate anymore as the fuel levels are too low to provide consistent injection of fuel into the engine.

It seems the DTE is somewhat based on the amount of fuel inside the tank, as it seems like my DTE was a lot lower when the needle was slightly below the full mark (keep in mind I'm not including any numbers from before I replaced my fuel tank as they were kinda off and I kept pumping more fuel in after it auto clicked off, and i often had DTE of 580, 530, 513, and 490 before it got fixed). I also noticed that it fluctuates a lot when you reset it, so I'm guessing its based on an average over your last gallon and distance travelled, although I'm sure it balances out over time. I'm also speculating its not taking the exact average of when you last reset it, as it probably takes a reading of a specific time frame of when it records fuel level vs distance travelled, so this can add to variability in its accuracy.

In case anybody was wondering why my hybrid fuel efficiency is not in the 40s, its because I've been carrying 2-3 people at a time, if not having a 50 lb bike rack and 50 lb hitch and 30 lb bike attached to the back, and driving a long backcountry road at 70 mph. In the city I'm usually getting around 40-45 mpg.
Sorry this is my first post but I’ve been following this thread since I bought the 2019 hybrid and I’ve been experiencing the same problem.

I have a quick question. Your story doesn’t seem to match the pics. There’s seems to be a two hour delay between you running out of fuel and the time and date stamp in the full pic. Tell me it didn’t take you two hours to pump enough gas to reach the 14 gallons.
 

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Sorry this is my first post but I’ve been following this thread since I bought the 2019 hybrid and I’ve been experiencing the same problem.

I have a quick question. Your story doesn’t seem to match the pics. There’s seems to be a two hour delay between you running out of fuel and the time and date stamp in the full pic. Tell me it didn’t take you two hours to pump enough gas to reach the 14 gallons.
I actually did take two hours. I poured in about 0.2-0.3 gallons into the fuel reservoir, then I looked up directions to the nearest gas station. The 76 was out of service which was the closest one, and there was a Chevron about 1.4 miles away. I had my dog with me, so after I put in a bit of gas in the tank, I went to grab a coffee and a bite. It was also near a dog wash, so I went and got my dog washed since we went for a walk on the beach and she got wet in the waves. I went to these places because both the coffee shop and the dog wash were closer to me than the Chevron which was over a mile away. After that, I finally drove the distance to the Chevron where i pumped in the 14.05 gallons... I probably could have pumped in more since the needle wasn't past the full mark. Anyways, probably a long story. The whole purpose of my drive to the beach was actually to look for an excuse to run out of gas. I didn't think it would happen so soon since I was only around 480 miles travelled so far, but considering that my tank was just below the full mark when I started counting the miles maybe that might account for why I couldn't get over 500 (I estimated it with a conservative distance of 530 miles before running out, but that was assuming my tank was filled to the max).
 
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