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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok,
Many others have compared and asked others what other suv's did they try before deciding on the rav. Did anyone ever try the Buick encore? Now that Buick is slightly increasing horsepower. If you had to test drive again would you ever try the buick encore for test drive?

I know many have complained about noise and ride comfort. The buick is supposed to be way better. Or you never tired cause you are just no a buick person or its way too small? Me I sat in one but thought it was alittle to small for what I needed. Plus for me most on the lots were priced over my budget too. Again my fault since I thought it was too small for my needs never thought about getting a fwd one. But if I had to do it over I might have given it more of a test drive and thought with the coming increase of horsepower.
 

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I have seen the Buick Encore on the road and in parking lots, and it's really tiny! If I were to buy any Buick, it would be the Enclave. Last time I rented a car from Enterprise, the guy was driving me home. I asked him of all the cars he's driven for his company, which one really stood out. Without hesitation he said the Buick Enclave. He said it's the nicest car they rent. And my buddy at work rented one for a family vacation last year, and he said the interior is like a Gulfstream jet! Of course that luxury doesn't come cheap!
 

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This headline keeps me away from anything made by GM: General Motors’ faulty ignition switches are now linked to 121 deaths
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have seen the Buick Encore on the road and in parking lots, and it's really tiny! If I were to buy any Buick, it would be the Enclave. Last time I rented a car from Enterprise, the guy was driving me home. I asked him of all the cars he's driven for his company, which one really stood out. Without hesitation he said the Buick Enclave. He said it's the nicest car they rent. And my buddy at work rented one for a family vacation last year, and he said the interior is like a Gulfstream jet! Of course that luxury doesn't come cheap!
Yes I might be a lone one, but I do like the look of the encore, but it is tiny and it is expensive for its size. One reason for my pass, budget, and at the time not taking time to drive it, kinda of wanted alittle more power. Still I kind of wish I test drove one. o well.
 

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I took the Encore for test drive.


Likes:
- quiet
- nice ride for a CUV
- good fit-and-finish and high quality interior


Dislikes:
- it's tiny, rear seat and trunk are barely usable, it's like riding in a sub-compact on stills. Even Yaris has more space inside.
- slow, slow, slow
 

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Our son had a Cadillac Escalade - nice when new, but horrendous depreciation when used.
- I would expect Buick, is no different

If your comparing new SUV's, it also pays to consider their worth (used $), at time of replacement.
Toyota is known for holding decent resale valve, Buick not so much.
 

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This headline keeps me away from anything made by GM: General Motors’ faulty ignition switches are now linked to 121 deaths
Toyota death toll attributed to the SUA problems stands at 89 (plus 52 injured).

Toyota paid $1.2 billion fine for the SUA problem, while GM is paying $900 million for the ignition switch problem.

So IMHO both Toyota and GM are equally "dirty" when it comes to addressing safety issues.
 

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^ Didn't follow the case. I actually thought it was caused by faulty car mats. Didn't know there was really an issue with acceleration.

Hopefully this is a very isolated case for all car manufacturers and that they've now built some human override to the ghosts in the machines.
 

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^ Didn't follow the case. I actually thought it was caused by faulty car mats. Didn't know there was really an issue with acceleration.

Hopefully this is a very isolated case for all car manufacturers and that they've now built some human override to the ghosts in the machines.
Yes, it was caused by floor mats. But Toyota was negligent for not addressing the issue over a period of 6 years with literally hundreds of reports. The fix was really easy - cutting the gas pedal shorter. But Toyota ignored consumer complaints and accident / incident reports for many years, showing criminal disregard for consumer safety.

When people die, regardless of how complex or simple the solution to the problem is, the manufacturer has to react. Toyota not only ignored hundreds of reports of SUA, they also hid data and mislead government investigators to avoid a recall. This was a classic case of Corporate negligence and putting reputation (and profits) ahead of safety.

I'm not saying that what Toyota did is worse than GM's case. But they both demonstrated lack of corporate ethics. IMHO they are about equally guilty.

BTW, very few companies can come clean on consumer safety Fiat-Chrysler has been also trying to avoid recalls at all cost, and then has been dragging their feet with implementing repairs to recalled vehicles. Honda knew about the Takata airbag issues for years and also hid data to avoid a recall.
 

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Toyota death toll attributed to the SUA problems stands at 89 (plus 52 injured).

Toyota paid $1.2 billion fine for the SUA problem, while GM is paying $900 million for the ignition switch problem.

So IMHO both Toyota and GM are equally "dirty" when it comes to addressing safety issues.
Where did you get your information?

If I recall there were ZERO deaths attributed to the alleged SUA problem. SUA was never proven even after multiple government agencies, including NASA, fully investigated this issue.

Tom
 

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I eliminated the Buick Encore because of its low ground clearance of 6.2"

Of course now the new RAV4s now have low ground clearance.:frown

Tom
 

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Where did you get your information?

If I recall there were ZERO deaths attributed to the alleged SUA problem. SUA was never proven even after multiple government agencies, including NASA, fully investigated this issue.

Tom
Your memory must be failing you. Toyota was found liable and fined $25 million (maximum administrative penalty possible at that time). Additionally Toyota settled with the government for $1.2 billion (with a "b") to have the criminal charges deferred (to keep Toyota top executives out of jail) and spent another estimated $1 billion on settlements with the victims' families. In total the SUA issue cost Toyota over $2 billion dollars, pushing them to declare the first annual loss in over 50 years. You can find a nice summary of the SUA story in Wikipedia, including references and links to a large number of official publications on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls

Three potential causes of SUA were investigated:

1) Gas pedals trapped by floor mats. This was proven beyond reasonable doubt, resulting in a massive recall. All fatalities attributed to Toyota SUA are linked to the floor mats problem. Toyota gas pedal design / shape made it more prone to this problem then any other manufacturer. Toyota modified the gas pedals in the recalled vehicles to allow more clearance under the pedal. Between 3 and 5 million of Toyota vehicles had their gas pedal "chopped". All fatal accidents were attributed to this cause. Toyota was sued by victims' families and settled for an undisclosed amount (estimated to be around $1 billion) to avoid criminal trials. It also resulted in major reshuffling of Toyota's management and appointment of Akio Toyoda as the CEO. Akio Toyoda publicly admitted Toyota's fault and apologized to the general public and US Congress.
Here is a link to a video of Toyoda's apology (in case you don't believe me and want to hear it from his own mouth).

2) "Sticky" gas pedals from one of Toyota's suppliers. Again this one was proven and resulted in a recall to modify gas pedals. Toyota's supplier was not held responsible because the gas pedals met Toyota specifications. The "stickiness" was result of Toyota's specs, not supplier's fault. Several accidents but no fatalities were linked to the "sticky" pedal issue.

3) A defect in electronic throttle control. This one was never proven - NASA and NHTSA engineers analyzed Toyota's throttle control hardware and software and did find any probable combination of failures that could cause a SUA. They were able to induce SUA through a combination of multiple simultaneous failures but it was judged that the probability of these failures occurring simultaneously in the real life is so low that it can be discarded. They were also able to induce SUA by subjecting the ECU to strong electromagnetic field, but again, the probability of such occurrence in the real life in negligible.

Net, SUA in Toyota vehicles was proven and real. You are confusing the overall issue of Toyota SUA with the specific issue of defective electronic throttle control.

Both Toyota SUA and GM ignition key recalls have many similarities. In both cases a relatively simple (almost trivial) technical problem led to numerous fatalities. In both cases, the companies were aware of the problem, but did not act - in case of Toyota to protect reputation of reliability and quality, in case of GM to save money. In both canes the companies hid or distorted information to mislead government investigators.
 

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Your memory must be failing you. Toyota was found liable and fined $25 million (maximum administrative penalty possible at that time). Additionally Toyota settled with the government for $1.2 billion (with a "b") to have the criminal charges deferred (to keep Toyota top executives out of jail) and spent another estimated $1 billion on settlements with the victims' families. In total the SUA issue cost Toyota over $2 billion dollars, pushing them to declare the first annual loss in over 50 years. You can find a nice summary of the SUA story in Wikipedia, including references and links to a large number of official publications on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls

Three potential causes of SUA were investigated:

1) Gas pedals trapped by floor mats. This was proven beyond reasonable doubt, resulting in a massive recall. All fatalities attributed to Toyota SUA are linked to the floor mats problem. Toyota gas pedal design / shape made it more prone to this problem then any other manufacturer. Toyota modified the gas pedals in the recalled vehicles to allow more clearance under the pedal. Between 3 and 5 million of Toyota vehicles had their gas pedal "chopped". All fatal accidents were attributed to this cause. Toyota was sued by victims' families and settled for an undisclosed amount (estimated to be around $1 billion) to avoid criminal trials. It also resulted in major reshuffling of Toyota's management and appointment of Akio Toyoda as the CEO. Akio Toyoda publicly admitted Toyota's fault and apologized to the general public and US Congress.
Here is a link to a video of Toyoda's apology (in case you don't believe me and want to hear it from his own mouth).
Toyota CEO Apologizes for Recall, Accidents - YouTube

2) "Sticky" gas pedals from one of Toyota's suppliers. Again this one was proven and resulted in a recall to modify gas pedals. Toyota's supplier was not held responsible because the gas pedals met Toyota specifications. The "stickiness" was result of Toyota's specs, not supplier's fault. Several accidents but no fatalities were linked to the "sticky" pedal issue.

3) A defect in electronic throttle control. This one was never proven - NASA and NHTSA engineers analyzed Toyota's throttle control hardware and software and did find any probable combination of failures that could cause a SUA. They were able to induce SUA through a combination of multiple simultaneous failures but it was judged that the probability of these failures occurring simultaneously in the real life is so low that it can be discarded. They were also able to induce SUA by subjecting the ECU to strong electromagnetic field, but again, the probability of such occurrence in the real life in negligible.

Net, SUA in Toyota vehicles was proven and real. You are confusing the overall issue of Toyota SUA with the specific issue of defective electronic throttle control.

Both Toyota SUA and GM ignition key recalls have many similarities. In both cases a relatively simple (almost trivial) technical problem led to numerous fatalities. In both cases, the companies were aware of the problem, but did not act - in case of Toyota to protect reputation of reliability and quality, in case of GM to save money. In both canes the companies hid or distorted information to mislead government investigators.

Actually, the "alleged" deaths were only alleged, not proven and I suspect that dishonest people were trying to cash in on the controversy. So ZERO DEATHS were attributed to this really ridiculous claim floor mats grabbing the accelerator pedal. All Toyota's fixes were based on theories and speculation; and settling for the fine only prevented more fines that WE pay for.

I'm sticking with Toyota.

Tom
 

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Interesting. I had a '06 Highlander AWD (6 cylinder) and then I had a '09 RAV4 AWD (4 cylinder) - both with J VIN's; I never had any acceleration issues in the 6 years that I drove them.
 

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Interesting. I had a '06 Highlander AWD (6 cylinder) and then I had a '09 RAV4 AWD (4 cylinder) - both with J VIN's; I never had any acceleration issues in the 6 years that I drove them.
That's because there are no real UAC issues; only dishonest people and stupid people who blame their mistakes on Toyota design. What kind of idiot installs a floor mat and pushes it up against the pedals while driving.....then blames Toyota. My 2010 RAV4 was recalled for the 'fix', they shaved a little metal off the edge of the accelerator pedal; what a joke. NO accidents were blamed on Toyota design; the lawyers won this time and cashed in big time on the fines we pay for.

The GM ignition switch issue is another example; just hang a couple of pounds of key ring toys and tools from your ignition key ring and see what happens. Car designs are actually, now, supposed to anticipate stupid people or get sued.


Tom
 
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