[LowRider2023]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and my wife and I just ordered a 2023 Rav4 Prime in dark blue metallic. It should be here in 2 weeks and we are very excited about it. It should work out great for us. We go back and forth between our 2 houses, one one Long Island and the other Upstate in NY. It's 150 miles between them. We rarely drive more than 40 miles a day when we are at either end on the long drive, I think the Prime will cut my gas usage by more than half compared to my Nissan Frontier pickup

I have lots of questions but right now I want to know about using the stage 1 charger that comes with the Prime. It says it takes 9 to 11 hours to fully charge and I'm OK with that. If I install a level 2 charger I can charge much quicker and I'll be ready for if I get a full EV in the future. But if I wait long enough to get an EV, that charger might be obsolete.

So how do you do your charging? With the 110 volt charger, do any of you use an extension chord. My neighbor charges her Leif with a 50 ft orange extension cord from the back of the house with no problem.

What do you think? How do you charge? How do you like your Rave4 Prime?

 

[Jymo]

Had my 2021 RAV4 Prime XE since Aug of 2021 and it is a wonderful automobile. No problems. Always have charged with 120V, mainly overnight. Have 240V 20A outlet, but do not use it because it is further from the car in the garage. It can take 12 hours to charge with 120V, but that is fine with me. I do not charge the vehicle while on the road (or at work) so the charging times are not an issue for me.

You can of course use an extension cord if it is rated for the current and length. The charger that comes with the vehicle will not draw more than 12 amps either on 120 or 240 volts. Therefore while a 15 gage wire (rated at 15 amps) may have the capacity to handle 12 amps, if the cord is over 20 feet I would go to a 12 gage extension cable to reduce the resistance (voltage loss) in the wire. As I understand it, if you purchase a charging cable for the XE it can draw up to 16 amps, so the 12 gage wire would be essential. The XSE is different and depending on the option can draw well over the current limitations of the XE

 

[peakbagger]

I used the stock charger for about 6 months. It worked fine but I have the stock 3300 watt converter on the 21 SE. The 2023s reportedly all have the 6600 watt unit. I stepped it up to level 2 with a 240V 20 amp plug and find that the faster charger means I can do a trip in the AM and recharge by the afternoon. I keep the stock charger in the spare tire well on the rare chance I may want to charge while on the road. I have a second one from my first totaled Prime in the closet.

And of course if you want to ignore electrical code, you can always buy any number of non UL approved 240 volt plug adaptors to allow the stock unit to operate at 240 volts which could void your warranty and any insurance claims you may make but many have elected to do so.

 

[Calson]

The faster chargers have a nearly universal plug and so they will be usable even with a car purchased 20 years from now. We got a $1000 credit to use with our fast charger which more than paid for the purchase. I already had a 220V outlet with a 06-50 receptacle, so no need to hire an electrician.

 

[Jeffp25]

Be really careful with extension cords. Most are not rated for the high current that is pulled even at Level 1 charging, and the longer the cord, the thicker (lower AWG) it must be to prevent overheating of the cable.

If you will nearly always be able to charge for 10 plus hours after less than 40 miles driving, the Level 1 cord alone may be fine. We've been doing that for the last three weeks and most week days it is fine for us too, but on weekends, when we do more driving, it would be nice to have faster charging. I'll be installing a Level 2 charger this weekend.

 

[SDGTR]

I've been using a 15' 12 gauge extension with my OEM charger. It has never even been remotely warm to the touch.

It works great but my TOU plan only has a 6 hour window with rates that make sense for EV charging so I've been making do with that. I usually need to do at least three hours at the higher rates if I want to start the day with a full charge. I also charge at work which runs about .26/kwh with a L2 charger.

One of my neighbors is an electrician and whenever he has a chance will be running a 240V circuit into the garage. Might be this weekend, might be a month from now... no idea. He's charging me full rates though so it's going to be expensive.

 

[Jeffp25]

He's charging me full rates though so it's going to be expensive.

That depends. Is he charging "standard rates" which may be a minimum amount of time (which is why my lowest quote for a job under an hour was at $500), or, because he's a neighbor, full rates but only for his actual time? Hopefully the latter.

 

[SDGTR]

That depends. Is he charging "standard rates" which may be a minimum amount of time (which is why my lowest quote for a job under an hour was at $500), or, because he's a neighbor, full rates but only for his actual time? Hopefully the latter.

I hope it's the latter too. I never got an official quote but he did mention somewhere in the neighborhood of $1300 to $1500. Another company I contacted quoted me between $2600 and $3000 so if I can get it done for $1500 that would obviously be much better.

 

[Jeffp25]

I've been using a 15' 12 gauge extension with my OEM charger. It has never even been remotely warm to the touch.

This is a useful chart when selecting cable gauges.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg

You could lose about 10% power with a 50 ft 12 AWG cable. 15 ft should be OK with 12 AWG. .

 

[LowRider2023]

I think that I will get a stage 2 fast charger for the LI house where we will do more trips on the same day and I'll be able to charge overnight when rates are low.

Upstate I'll use the stage 1. Sometimes in winter with deep snow I can't get to the garage. I'll get a minimum length 10 gauge extension cord for when I can't get to the garage. I built the house, I was able to get free 12 gauge wire, so I built it with all 20 amp circuits. My garage has it's own 20 amp circuit and it will be easy to ad another outlet outside the door, and it will be right at the beginning of the run. Upstate we also usually go out in the morning and then not again for the rest of the day.

I'm really excited about the car. Last night I started reading the manual. I've never done that. This is going to be a lot of fun!

 

[Salmon]

If you do use an extension cord (Toyota says don't) I agree with the other posters to be conservative with the AWG but here are few more thoughts:
1. Extension cords are usually used for short periods for devices you actively use - so they are unlikely to be used long enough and if they get hot you can feel it. Plugging your R4P into an extension is committing the cord to many hours of continuous current while you are typically sleeping. Think about that before you decide to do it.
2. If an extension cord has insufficient AWG and heats up any coils will magnify that effect so you may want to avoid (or at least avoid coiling) excess cordage.
3. Often the limiting factor for extension cords are the plugs and plug connectors. I had a 12 AWG extension cord heat up at one connector even though it was only supporting a device that drew < 8A.

We figured that the Supplied 120V EVSE would be enough for our purposes too (retired with a limited driving profile). But once we realized that we could recharge in a fraction of the time with a relatively inexpensive 240V L2 and, therefore, make multiple trips in one day on EV it an easy choice to make. Unless you have a very consistent driving pattern and/or are the only user of the car it is much easier to support multiple drivers with a 4.5 hr (or less) charging cycle.

 

[dertbv]

I have been using the 120vt cable since i got the car. I have no reason to upgrade to 240 as most of my trips average less that 50 miles a day. However with that being said, i am upgrading to a 240 outlet at a cost of 1500 including the juicebox. I will not ever recover my costs from this but it is a nice to have when and if i ever sell my house.

 

[wscan]

If you do use an extension cord (Toyota says don't)

The reason Toyota says not to use an extension cord is assuming that the cord is of proper gauge, then the most likely place for heat to occur is at the connections. Without an extension, this is primarily where the cord plugs into the outlet. The Toyota EVSE has a temperature sensor in the plug to detect any heat in that connection and shut charging down. Using an extension eliminates this temperature sensing where the extension cord plugs into the outlet.

 

[CoffeeBear]

depends how much you drive most days. with my short commute I only charge 2-3 times a week and can run 100% EV. I have just been using gas for slightly longer drives.

 

[NoelinColorado]

So how do you do your charging? With the 110 volt charger, do any of you use an extension chord.

Initially I used a 2' 15amp rated ext cord because it had a right-angle plug on it which we needed for the 110v outlet we used. While the cord itself did not warm the connector housing did and during the hot part of the year I became concerned enough to plug directly into a different GFI outlet now. No need whatsoever for faster charging for this car and we typically charge 4-5x/week or so, in sync w/ our off-peak rates, using the car's scheduling routine (doesn't start charging til after 7pm when off peak starts). If we had a 2nd BEV/PHEV we would have to add 220v service but no need at the moment. For the cost of the L2 charger and 220v circuit we can purchase some 18,000 miles of juice.

 

[Safedad]

If you fall into the ideal use pattern for a PHEV, overnight charging with the supplied 120V EVSE is more than sufficient. For example, if your daily driving is almost always under 40 miles with the R4P but you have occasional road trips where the range and ease of gas refueling saves time and hassle. It sounds like this may be your situation, so I think you'd be just fine to save the money for now. If your driving habits change, or you are doing other electrical work (making it cheaper to upgrade your EVSE at the same time), or you are thinking of an EV and want to future-proof, then by all means upgrade to a level 2 and you will probably find it very handy, but still not necessary.

We had an electrician put in a new 240V outlet in our garage late last year during a remodel. The cost was minimal to put in a 14-30 outlet, anything more would have required major upgrades for our panel and wiring. I didn't really need to upgrade at all, but I found a Clipper Creek AmazingE 240V, 16A level 2 unit on sale and decided to splurge. Even this would be sufficient for overnight charging of a full EV if you drive under ~100 miles daily, especially if you have other places to charge in between. There's a new federal tax credit in 2023 that not only covers 30% of an EVSE, but also any necessary panel/service upgrades. Look into this to see if you qualify, if you do upgrade.

As for your other question, as per manual, Toyota says extension cords are "strictly prohibited". They also say do not connect to adaptors and multi/converting adapters. Of course, many still do this without an issue. The main risk would be if you are using adapters and extensions to charge your vehicle outside or where it is exposed to water, especially if the circuit lacks a GFCI, or if your adapter/extension is not adequately rated to handle the current.

 

[SDGTR]

If you fall into the ideal use pattern for a PHEV, overnight charging with the supplied 120V EVSE is more than sufficient. For example, if your daily driving is almost always under 40 miles with the R4P but you have occasional road trips where the range and ease of gas refueling saves time and hassle. It sounds like this may be your situation, so I think you'd be just fine to save the money for now. If your driving habits change, or you are doing other electrical work (making it cheaper to upgrade your EVSE at the same time), or you are thinking of an EV and want to future-proof, then by all means upgrade to a level 2 and you will probably find it very handy, but still not necessary.

We had an electrician put in a new 240V outlet in our garage late last year during a remodel. The cost was minimal to put in a 14-30 outlet, anything more would have required major upgrades for our panel and wiring. I didn't really need to upgrade at all, but I found a Clipper Creek AmazingE 240V, 16A level 2 unit on sale and decided to splurge. Even this would be sufficient for overnight charging of a full EV if you drive under ~100 miles daily, especially if you have other places to charge in between. There's a new federal tax credit in 2023 that not only covers 30% of an EVSE, but also any necessary panel/service upgrades. Look into this to see if you qualify, if you do upgrade.

As for your other question, as per manual, Toyota says extension cords are "strictly prohibited". They also say do not connect to adaptors and multi/converting adapters. Of course, many still do this without an issue. The main risk would be if you are using adapters and extensions to charge your vehicle outside or where it is exposed to water, especially if the circuit lacks a GFCI, or if your adapter/extension is not adequately rated to handle the current.

Keep in mind that some people (like me) have Time Of Use plans that can limit the low rates to just a few hours a day. For me it's between midnight to 6 a.m.. Outside that time window the rates are anywhere from three to six times higher. With the OEM 120v charger, six hours of charging would only be halfway charged so someone with a small window to charge at the lowest rates would benefit from a L2 charger.

I also look at the convenience factor. Being able to charge the car in less than 3 hours is much more convenient than having to wait 12 hours. Financially I'll likely never make up the cost of installing the 240V circuit but when I take the convenience into account, it's worth it.

That said, a lot of people have very low electric rates anyway so it doesn't matter what time of day they charge. For those people a L2 doesn't really provide any benefit other than the convenience of being able to charge faster.

 

[Safedad]

Keep in mind that some people (like me) have Time Of Use plans that can limit the low rates to just a few hours a day. For me it's between midnight to 6 a.m.. Outside that time window the rates are anywhere from three to six times higher. With the OEM 120v charger, six hours of charging would only be halfway charged so someone with a small window to charge at the lowest rates would benefit from a L2 charger.

Another good reason, thanks!

 

[LowRider2023]

Thank you for all your input. We might have the new Prime this week!

From all the posts here and and others I've read, I think the best thing to do is just wait and see. We'll start out with the Stage 1 charger and that will do everything we need to do. if it turns out that I want to charge faster, then I'll look into installing Stage 2 chargers

Looking at our available peak/off-peak rates, I don't see the advantage of paying more all day so I can charge cheaper at night. Again, maybe I'll change my mind after I check more into it, but I don't see it working at the all electric Upstate house and at the Long Island house the peak rates get really high.

So we will see. I can't wait to get the car. It might be in only 4 more days!

 

[Gymnbat]

Thank you for all your input. We might have the new Prime this week!

From all the posts here and and others I've read, I think the best thing to do is just wait and see. We'll start out with the Stage 1 charger and that will do everything we need to do. if it turns out that I want to charge faster, then I'll look into installing Stage 2 chargers

Looking at our available peak/off-peak rates, I don't see the advantage of paying more all day so I can charge cheaper at night. Again, maybe I'll change my mind after I check more into it, but I don't see it working at the all electric Upstate house and at the Long Island house the peak rates get really high.

So we will see. I can't wait to get the car. It might be in only 4 more days!

Thank you for all your input. We might have the new Prime this week!

From all the posts here and and others I've read, I think the best thing to do is just wait and see. We'll start out with the Stage 1 charger and that will do everything we need to do. if it turns out that I want to charge faster, then I'll look into installing Stage 2 chargers

Looking at our available peak/off-peak rates, I don't see the advantage of paying more all day so I can charge cheaper at night. Again, maybe I'll change my mind after I check more into it, but I don't see it working at the all electric Upstate house and at the Long Island house the peak rates get really high.

So we will see. I can't wait to get the car. It might be in only 4 more days!

I'm on LI too. Recently changed to a TOU plan that has a super low rate from 10 pm to 6 am. Highest rate is 3-7 pm, lower rate 6am- 3pm and 7-10 pm. Super low rate
10 pm - 6am. No high peak rate (3-7pm) on weekends and Federal holidays. It makes sense for me. I'm already seeing a savings in my electric bill. I'm going to have to wait until the summer with air conditioning on to see if I really get any savings. I have a 2021 XSE PP with 6.6 charger. On a 120v charger I would not be able to charge fully in 8 hours. I opted for a 14-50 plug with a 60 amp breaker from the main panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage and a 50 amp breaker to the plug. I already had 220 service to the sub panel in my garage. I have a Juicebox 40 that I am very happy with. My utility gave me a $500 rebate on the Juicebox and until Dec 31 2022 I got $.05 Per kWh rebate if I charged between 11 pm and 6 am. That program disappeared Dec 31 2022. I also got a Federal Income Tax credit for 30% of the cost of the Juicebox and the cost of installation. The installation of the plug, the 40 foot run from the sub panel to where the plug was mounted (run done in PVC) and the new breakers was about $1000. I also had some other electrical work done too. I don't know how long, if ever, I'll reach the break even point but it seemed to make sense for me. I can go out in the morning and if needed I can return home, charge again in 2.5 hours and go out again using EV miles. I can also charge completely in my lowest TOU period.