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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am getting ready to purchase a fun CUV this fall finally and strongly considering CX5 Turbo 2021 which should be out by end of month and will be easier to get then Prime at below msrp. I figured to throw in this comparison for myself, but thought anyone else on the same boat. In my case with all factors put in together Prime isn't saving money first 6 years at least and I am pretty sure I will get rid of it at around 6-7 year mark anyway. Also not going to take resale value into consideration, both will be down the drain anyway since we'll likely have 2nd gen Prime or even full electric one.

Why CX5? It's arguably best bang for your buck in terms of fun to drive, handling and reliability based on numerous reviews. 0-60 times are pretty close to Prime as well. I do not like infotainment in pre 2021 versions however, but they reportedly improved it with bigger screen

Other alternative is Ford Escape 2.0l Turbo.

All 3 are my only choices at the moment given in the same price range, comparable acceleration, size among other things. I threw in numbers together for myself to determine best bang for the buck

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There you have it in red & yellow - get one of each! It will be interesting to see where gas prices go during that 7 yr stretch. FYI, looks like you were going back and forth between 11k or 12k mileage wise per the notation next to gas. Nice summary. Still would lean towards the Prime but like you said it might be difficult to procure.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
In my case my yearly mileage is really between 8-10k. I was just playing with different numbers.
 

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The lower mileage would favor the CX5 but would also have to factor in the amount of EV driving if your electric rates are below national avg or if you have a free source.
 

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Am not in the market for either but if I were I probably would opt for the CX-5 as there is a Mazda dealer in our town while the nearest Toyota dealer is at least a two hour drive over roads which basically are mountainous and narrow.
 

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I am getting ready to purchase a fun CUV this fall finally and strongly considering CX5 Turbo 2021 which should be out by end of month and will be easier to get then Prime at below msrp. I figured to throw in this comparison for myself, but thought anyone else on the same boat. In my case with all factors put in together Prime isn't saving money first 6 years at least and I am pretty sure I will get rid of it at around 6-7 year mark anyway. Also not going to take resale value into consideration, both will be down the drain anyway since we'll likely have 2nd gen Prime or even full electric one.
View attachment 156633

Why CX5? It's arguably best bang for your buck in terms of fun to drive, handling and reliability based on numerous reviews. 0-60 times are pretty close to Prime as well. I do not like infotainment in pre 2021 versions however, but they reportedly improved it with bigger screen.
Toyodaornot

Define fun?

If you are going through a mid-life crisis and dreaming about speeding down a two lane twisting road the CX 5 is your better choice.

The Prime is not a sports car. It is a heavy automobile that is faster than the design can handle.

If fun is hauling down the interstate passing semis with ease the Prime will not disappoint.

I am not a fan of turbos.

One poster on this forum said it best.
Four cylinder Turbos are Shetland ponies on steroids and a v8 is a Clydesdale.

Both will get the job done but that Shetland is going to die young.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Toyodaornot

Define fun?

If you are going through a mid-life crisis and dreaming about speeding down a two lane twisting road the CX 5 is your better choice.

The Prime is not a sports car. It is a heavy automobile that is faster than the design can handle.

If fun is hauling down the interstate passing semis with ease the Prime will not disappoint.

I am not a fan of turbos.

One poster on this forum said it best.
Four cylinder Turbos are Shetland ponies on steroids and a v8 is a Clydesdale.

Both will get the job done but that Shetland is going to die young.
When mid-life hits then we'll talk about getting me a sports car. For now just need practical, reliable, quick CUV to zip around town for around 40k. Ideally I would want EV, but the only obvious option is at least $10k more and even with potential gas savings there is no benefit in overpaying for something that will break even in 5-6 years when it's time to replace it. The other 2nd option is Ford Escape Titanium, but reliability is questionable for this timeframe.
 

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When mid-life hits then we'll talk about getting me a sports car. For now just need practical, reliable, quick CUV to zip around town for around 40k. Ideally I would want EV, but the only obvious option is at least $10k more and even with potential gas savings there is no benefit in overpaying for something that will break even in 5-6 years when it's time to replace it. The other 2nd option is Ford Escape Titanium, but reliability is questionable for this timeframe.
Toyodaornot

There are a lot of reliable options for $40k

You can get into a sporty Rav 4 XSE Hybrid for $38 k today.

Toyota Prius is the most reliable car in Toyota’s lineup and the Rav 4 hybrid is patterned after the Prius.

7.5 seconds 0-60 mph is not slow.

If you plan to keep the car for 5 to 6 years most major brands will provide reliable service for 6 years. ( average driving)

The question is depreciation and if that is an issue I would stick with a Toyota.
 

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quick CUV to zip around town
Who does that??? That's the BS that marketing pushes on us. Nobody "zips" in stop and go traffic. And from stoplight my older V6 can out take any "zippy" small car.
"Zip" was coined to sell small cars. Cars that are safe to drive only at low city speeds, not on long highway drives.

The Prime advantage is only because every buyer steals $7500 from everyone else taxes with government help.
Not everyone affords a +$50k car, and that tax incentive is going to the rich people that can afford that expense. The normal blue collar people, that have a mortgage/rent to pay, can't afford that.
Plus they use electricity billed for residential use to charge their cars. That's another state incentive that they take (residential electricity is usually subsidized by commercial users), as opposed to paying road tax included in the gasoline.
To me, all of those flaunting their Tesla and other full EV cars, are just thieves.
 

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For me the zipping around is on our twisty mountain roads where handling is a priority, but even with my current V6 RAV4 I almost always catch up to someone driving more slowly and am stuck staring at their exhaust pipe unless/until there is one of the rare passing opportunities available. Have driven a CX-5 and it is more fun and has better handling than my RAV4 but being stuck behind a duffer driving something like a Ford F-150 definitely minimises any handling advantage.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
There are a lot of reliable options for $40k
You are very far off from reality. Nissan, Subaru and even Honda all proven to be unreliable POS with major transmission/engine problems among other things. Kia/Hyundai also had their share of issues. Of course Toyota isn't immune as we seen number of first year issue. Mazda, specifically CX5 long term results look good which gives me some confidence.

You can get into a sporty Rav 4 XSE Hybrid for $38 k today.
Nothing "sporty" about XSE except the look (which I do like), but I owned Limited for a year for which I paid 38k. No doing it again.

Toyota Prius is the most reliable car in Toyota’s lineup and the Rav 4 hybrid is patterned after the Prius.
If you are going to stick with Toyota you might be looking at very limited options

7.5 seconds 0-60 mph is not slow.
It's not the the slowest, but it's not great either, in addition to lackluster acceleration quick runs hasn't been very pleasing experience with rav4 hybrid, it's noisy and rough sounding.

If you plan to keep the car for 5 to 6 years most major brands will provide reliable service for 6 years. ( average driving)
Probably true, but I would still probably get extended insurance if I buy most options

The question is depreciation and if that is an issue I would stick with a Toyota.
Prime will depreciate even more then average car in 6 years, we'll most likely see 2nd gen with more range or even full rav4 ev by then. Personally I wouldn't worry about depreciation and if you do I would suggest look into leasing

Prime certainly has addressed concerns with noise and acceleration which is great, but again, I am trying to justify if it's really worth overpaying at least $6k (assuming I can get one without markup) for it which would never pay off during the lifetime of the car.
 

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You are very far off from reality. Nissan, Subaru and even Honda all proven to be unreliable POS with major transmission/engine problems among other things. Kia/Hyundai also had their share of issues. Of course Toyota isn't immune as we seen number of first year issue. Mazda, specifically CX5 long term results look good which gives me some confidence.


Nothing "sporty" about XSE except the look (which I do like), but I owned Limited for a year for which I paid 38k. No doing it again.


If you are going to stick with Toyota you might be looking at very limited options


It's not the the slowest, but it's not great either, in addition to lackluster acceleration quick runs hasn't been very pleasing experience with rav4 hybrid, it's noisy and rough sounding.


Probably true, but I would still probably get extended insurance if I buy most options


Prime will depreciate even more then average car in 6 years, we'll most likely see 2nd gen with more range or even full rav4 ev by then. Personally I wouldn't worry about depreciation and if you do I would suggest look into leasing

Prime certainly has addressed concerns with noise and acceleration which is great, but again, I am trying to justify if it's really worth overpaying at least $6k (assuming I can get one without markup) for it which would never pay off during the lifetime of the car.
Toyodaornot

OverPaying 6k:

If you qualify for the $7,500 tax credit you will not be paying $6k more assuming you can negotiate at least MSRP on the Prime.

The difference will be $1,500 -$3,000 between the hybrid vs the Prime depending on model.

The Prime does come with a heat pump, at least $1,600 more value in the larger battery, larger display, more horse power, polished 18 or 19 inch wheels more than offsets the difference in price especially if comparing the SE to the XLE.

I estimated my Prime SE is $1,500 more than the XLE hybrid 2020 and from day one I made up the differences and more based alone on the cost of the larger battery.

Reliability:

If you are only interested in an auto to provide you 6 years of reliable service and drive 12k a year I feel pretty confident you can place your bet on any average rated automobile per consumer report to deliver you 72k miles.


Leasing:

In my opinion, if you can not afford to finance and payoff and own outright the automobile in 3 to 4 years max especially with a $7,500 tax credit you have no business buying that automobile because you are living beyond your means.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Toyodaornot

OverPaying 6k:

If you qualify for the $7,500 tax credit you will not be paying $6k more assuming you can negotiate at least MSRP on the Prime.

The difference will be $1,500 -$3,000 between the hybrid vs the Prime depending on model.

The Prime does come with a heat pump, at least $1,600 more value in the larger battery, larger display, more horse power, polished 18 or 19 inch wheels more than offsets the difference in price especially if comparing the SE to the XLE.

I estimated my Prime SE is $1,500 more than the XLE hybrid 2020 and from day one I made up the differences and more based alone on the cost of the larger battery.

Reliability:

If you are only interested in an auto to provide you 6 years of reliable service and drive 12k a year I feel pretty confident you can place your bet on any average rated automobile per consumer report to deliver you 72k miles.


Leasing:

In my opinion, if you can not afford to finance and payoff and own outright the automobile in 3 to 4 years max especially with a $7,500 tax credit you have no business buying that automobile because you are living beyond your means.
See my numbers above... it's 6k at least difference after 7500 credit and no other incentives I can get. If you are lucky to find one for msrp
 

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See my numbers above... it's 6k at least difference after 7500 credit and no other incentives I can get. If you are lucky to find one for msrp
Toyotaornot

I looked over your post and you said at least $6k more which may be correct in California where greed has caused some dealers to raise prices way above MSRP

I can respect your frustration if you are seeing prices above MSRP

If you are fortunate enough to buy at MSRP and qualify for the full tax credit you will be closer than $6k and in my case $1,500 is the difference assuming you can negotiate the hybrid down 5% off MSRP which is a realistic number with the low supply of hybrids.

Take care,
Russ
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have my estimate without msrp markup (just plain msrp from toyota site on a fully loaded xse), so it's really the best case scenario with $6k more, but if we take into account additional $5k markup I was given... Also notice I am including tax which is quite a bit higher on Prime. Bottom line, financially, Prime doesn't make sense for me to own for 6 years vs CX5, so the only reasoning which one would be more fun. I am waiting for Mazda to have 2021 CX5 on their lots in the next few weeks before I take the plunge of course. A bit concerned about how I would like infotainment without touch screen.
 
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Toyota or not.
Enjoy your Mazda.

It is unfortunate you can’t find a Prime for MSRP.

A loaded hybrid limited will set you back $40k -$41k and a loaded Prime should be $50k -$7,500 = $42,500

I refuse to pay MSRP for any automobile including the Prime. I was blessed that I was able to keep my commitment and pay under MSRP. for our Prime.

If you can’t wait for Prime supply to catchup and you only want to own it for 6 years go for the Mazda. I am sure the turbo will provide you 6 years of reliability.

At 56 and if you want to get ahead and retire comfortably the rat race buying and selling every few years is not a good financial move.

I have 10 years to retirement and I plan to drive my Prime into retirement and buy with cash I saved keeping the Prime for at least 10 years (battery warranty is 10 years) one more automobile at retirement and that will be an EV.

Take care,

Russ
 

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Keep in mind that the current crop of Mazda Turbos only reach their full quoted horsepower with premium fuel. I'm assuming that will be the same for the one you're considering.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Keep in mind that the current crop of Mazda Turbos only reach their full quoted horsepower with premium fuel. I'm assuming that will be the same for the one you're considering.
Yup, that's ok, as far as I know most turbos require premium, at least with CX5 (and Escape I am looking) you have an option using regular fuel and premium if you prefer. With my my mileage at around 10k a year you can buy a lot of premium fuel at $6k difference so I am not overly concerned with gas savings.
 

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Yup, that's ok, as far as I know most turbos require premium, at least with CX5 (and Escape I am looking) you have an option using regular fuel and premium if you prefer. With my my mileage at around 10k a year you can buy a lot of premium fuel at $6k difference so I am not overly concerned with gas savings.
Toyota,

Not every ZEV State is inflating Prime prices like California.

I still believe based on my experience and others on this forum a Prime can be purchased for MSRP and the difference after the tax credit is not $6k but closer to $1,500 and the bigger battery alone makes up the price difference.

If you live in Colorado you will get the Prime for less after the State credit.

It just isn’t true in all cases the Prime is $6 k more unless you are looking at the rip off dealers in Southern California jacking up Primes $10k.

Look over those who bought Primes on this forum. Most will tell you they paid MSRP.

Enjoy,

Russ
 

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Discussion Starter #20
There is no markup in my estimate, there is just discount on CX5 and regular msrp on Prime loaded with all packages included which comes up to $6k price difference. If you compare to Rav4 Hybrid Limited to Prime, the difference isn't dramatic, but I am not interested in hybrid.
 
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