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Discussion Starter #1
I raised the issue of adjusting the parking brake shoes on the star nut adjusters in the drums and would like opinions on whether backing off 10 clicks after tightening seems excessive. Would anybody who has done this job, particularly somebody who has done it frequently,advise if they actually need backing off that far!! :shrug:
 

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Use 8. I have not done the job, but I have checked the service manual. A portion of that manual is at http://share.qclt.com/%E4%B8%B0%E7%94%B0Toyota%20RAV4%20Repair%20Manual/Parking%20Brake/Parking%20Brake%20Assembly/039001.pdf See page PB-17:
11. ADJUST PARKING BRAKE SHOE CLEARANCE
(a) Temporarily install the hub nuts.
(b) Remove the shoe adjusting hole plug, and then turn the adjuster to expand the shoe adjuster until the disc locks.
(c) Turn and contact the shoe adjuster until the disc can rotate smoothly.
Standard return notch:
8 notches
(d) Check that the shoe has no brake drag.
Eight is pretty close to 10.

Up = tighten (ref http://www.rav4world.com/forums/99-4-3-mechanical/70427-adjusting-parking-brake-removing-center-console-2.html#post765552 -- drawing in manual is a bit ambiguous IMO.
 

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You haven't specified year & model but that probably doesn't matter. I adjust parking brakes so they engage fully then back off just until there's no drag. I can't imagine that would take anywhere near 10 clicks. They should start engaging within 2-3 or maybe 4 clicks of a hand lever or foot pedal.

With most cars being automatics, at least in the US, parking brakes rarely get used or checked.

The only time it mattered in my state, Connecticut, was back when we had to take any car we bought for inspection to get it registered. The test was apply the parking/emergency brake then to put it into first gear and try to drive forward while the inspector watched. If the car moved you failed. The inspector would watch you put it in gear and then watch your brake lights to be sure you weren't using the foot brake. If a car had a weak parking brake my trick was to shift into third instead of first. The parking brake worked much better then! :rolleyes:
 

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I adjust parking brakes so they engage fully then back off just until there's no drag. I can't imagine that would take anywhere near 10 clicks [of the star wheel]. They should start engaging within 2-3 or maybe 4 clicks of a hand lever or foot pedal.
Possibly you only tighten until any drag is felt before backing off vs "expand the shoe adjuster until the disc locks."

Regarding the hand brake lever, this is from page PB-2 of the manual:
1. CHECK PARKING BRAKE LEVER TRAVEL
(a) Pull the lever upward with a force of approximately 200 N (20 kgf, 44 lbf) and count the number of clicks.
OK:
7 to 9 clicks (without rear brake dragging)
That seems compatible with starting to engage in 3 clicks if I interpret "without rear brake dragging" as meaning that the brake is fully engaged as opposed to starting to drag but not fully locking the wheels. The wording should be clearer.
 

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Yeah, a little confusing here. Especially because we're talking two different clicks. I'm thinking the 10 clicks the OP refers to are at the shoe adjusters. The 2-3 or 4 are at the hand brake lever.

To be a little more clear on my procedure:
1. Loosen the cable at the hand lever so there's plenty of slack.
2. With the hand lever fully released tighten the star wheel shoe adjusters until the shoes just start to drag as the tire is rotated.
3. Pull the hand lever on fully and release to center the shoes.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Back off the star wheels just until no drag is felt.
7. Tighten the hand lever cable until tire drag is felt within 2-3 clicks.

So my and the OP's only contention is that step 6 would take 10 clicks of the star wheel.

Actually since backing off the star wheels is usually a pain I often do the adjustment/recenter carefully enough to leave just the slightest drag figuring the shoes will wear to no drag quickly and no backing off of the star wheels is needed.

Hope that clarifies and covers it! On to other things!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, a little confusing here. Especially because we're talking two different clicks. I'm thinking the 10 clicks the OP refers to are at the shoe adjusters. The 2-3 or 4 are at the hand brake lever.

To be a little more clear on my procedure:
1. Loosen the cable at the hand lever so there's plenty of slack.
2. With the hand lever fully released tighten the star wheel shoe adjusters until the shoes just start to drag as the tire is rotated.
3. Pull the hand lever on fully and release to center the shoes.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Back off the star wheels just until no drag is felt.
7. Tighten the hand lever cable until tire drag is felt within 2-3 clicks.

So my and the OP's only contention is that step 6 would take 10 clicks of the star wheel.

Actually since backing off the star wheels is usually a pain I often do the adjustment/recenter carefully enough to leave just the slightest drag figuring the shoes will wear to no drag quickly and no backing off of the star wheels is needed.

Hope that clarifies and covers it! On to other things!
Thanks Mr Dyno. I'm of the same view regarding the star nut adjusters at the wheels. It concerned me to see 8+ clicks referred to in literature.
Back off sufficiently so there's no drag on the drum from the shoes which should take only three or four clicks on the stars.
Nothing to do with the hand brake lever which I have no intention of touching and should be no need anyway. This is no different to my MG saloon which has exactly the same setup. The RAV is a 2.4 Aussy import(we don't get this model in the UK - largest petrol is 2.0L)_.
 

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Yeah, a little confusing here. Especially because we're talking two different clicks. I'm thinking the 10 clicks the OP refers to are at the shoe adjusters. The 2-3 or 4 are at the hand brake lever.

To be a little more clear on my procedure:
1. Loosen the cable at the hand lever so there's plenty of slack.
2. With the hand lever fully released tighten the star wheel shoe adjusters until the shoes just start to drag as the tire is rotated.
3. Pull the hand lever on fully and release to center the shoes.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Back off the star wheels just until no drag is felt.
7. Tighten the hand lever cable until tire drag is felt within 2-3 clicks.

So my and the OP's only contention is that step 6 would take 10 clicks of the star wheel.

Actually since backing off the star wheels is usually a pain I often do the adjustment/recenter carefully enough to leave just the slightest drag figuring the shoes will wear to no drag quickly and no backing off of the star wheels is needed.

Hope that clarifies and covers it! On to other things!
Or......like the guy in the old Ford pickup I saw last week in upstate NY, just toss a chunk o firewood under the back tire.....!:thumbs_up:
 

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The instructions are pinned on the UK forum;

Maintenance/improvement Tips - 4.3 - Rav 4 Club - Toyota Owners Club - Toyota Forum

You can back off the adjuster until you hear the shoes just rub but bear in mind they sometimes have a high spot. I usually run up 2 wheel nuts to keep the disc firm then rock the disc back and forth in the backlash of the transmission. You need to turn the hub with a lever on the installed nuts and repeat the process all the way around. When you are satisfied you can refit the wheels but leave one jacked up while you adjust the cable inside. Again you can get away with a lot less than 8-10 clicks but do not risk having the shoes binding. They are tiny and will soon be destroyed. Keep checking with the raised wheel and leave some reserve.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good one again anchorman. I'm going to go through a wheel end adjustment avoiding a brake lever cable adjustment if possible.
As the book says 7-9 clicks on the cabin lever, and assuming the factory adjusted the wheels end to their own recommended 8 clicks on the star nuts, then if I just adjust the star nuts to the minimum number of shoe clearance clicks(without binding), and this brings the cabin lever clicks down to say 4-6, then I'll be happy.
It is notable that on the last MOT I was a bit concerned about the travel on the cabin lever but it still topped at 8 clicks although the lever seems quite high for my liking in this position. The tester must have known the limits as it didn't get a mention, even as an advisory.

Strange thing is the same amount of pull on my MG ZT would have been a fail and its an identical adjustment system.
 

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I seem to remember there is something in Construction and Use Regs about the handbrake clicks as a percentage of the maximum. Anything that exceeds results in "no reserve".
 

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exceeds.....................................??
The way I read it he means the handle comes all the way up to it's limit by the time the brakes come on. No "reserve" clicks left.
 

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Can anyone who has pulled of the rear rotor/drum advise if the star-wheel has a self adjusting lever like regular rear drum brakes?

I couldn't see one in this PDF, but if they did have the lever, then the adjustment could be made automatically by applying the parking brake while in reverse, which I don't think many people do.
 

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Hey Rickl

I just had my rear drums off last night cleaning and lubing my caliper slides and adjusting the emergency brake shoes. There was no "self" adjuster at the star wheel on my 08 limited.
There is a little hole in the rotor (with a rubber grommet in it) so you can spin the star wheel with the rotor still on if you want to. I chose to take the rotor off , clean up the inside lip of rust and slide the rotor back on after adjusting the shoes each time, to feel for slight drag. I still don't like the fact that I have to pull the E brake handle up about 5 clicks to make the shoes grab good. Maybe it's normal.....



Kevin
 

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I just had my rear drums off last night cleaning and lubing my caliper slides and adjusting the emergency brake shoes. There was no "self" adjuster at the star wheel on my 08 limited.
Thanks for letting me know.

There is a little hole in the rotor (with a rubber grommet in it) so you can spin the star wheel with the rotor still on if you want to. I chose to take the rotor off , clean up the inside lip of rust and slide the rotor back on after adjusting the shoes each time, to feel for slight drag. I still don't like the fact that I have to pull the E brake handle up about 5 clicks to make the shoes grab good
My experience with adjusting star-wheels through the access hole, is that I usually damage the teeth because the wheel is seized up. I think you were smart to remove the rotor/drum to free up and lubricate the mechanism before making the adjustments.

I think most people are trying to adjust the star-wheel until the drag has just been removed. That is the procedure for normal drum type service brakes, because you want those brakes to be applied with very little travel of the hydraulic pistons. I don't see any problem making the adjustment that way, in fact it may eliminate the need to adjust the cable. On the other hand it is not as critical as adjusting a normal hydraulic drum brake, because any slack can be made up in the cable adjustment and lever position.

My theory is that the adjustments should be made so that there is no tension in the cable when the brakes are released. In order to accomplish this I think the procedure should start by disconnecting the cable, and then making the star-wheel adjustments so that all drag is just removed. Then reconnect the cable , and adjust it's length so that the brakes are fully applied with 5-7 clicks of the lever.
 

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My experience with a 2011 disk brakes all around, and for the rear is to remove and clean the rear by removing the disk/drum, clean and lubricate the adjuster. Remove and clean and lubricate the calipers and lube the pads sliders rear and examine the piston and clean. Examine all rubbers.

When replacing the rear set up adjust the star wheel now cleaned and anti seized compound to ease the disk/drum on, then adjust the star wheel. Test the drum/disk for braking and with the hand e brake set to 5-6 clicks, when set and all done, test drive the car and all wheels stopped pull the e brake handle and retest for the correct clicks, count them.

With the e brake properly adjusted, the brakes hold the car. NEVER SET THE HAND BRAKES WITH THE CAR MOVING. When adjusted and used correctly you should never wear out the friction material with the e brake system, but the cables may stretch and that adjustment is done inside the car. With the correct pull up force and the correct clicks and no car movement there would be no excess stresses, no abnormal wear, but it is critical that the car has no movement when the e brake is put into service.

If you have doubts about this moving, just take the rear wheels and brakes apart to see how they work.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Correct :thumbs_up:
Hand brake lever comes all the way up??? What - to a position such that if there were no cable connected it would come to a natural stop near vertical? I wouldn't like that and not the way I'd do it.
Assuming the cable doesn't need adjusting, with the hand brake lever all the way off(down) I would adjust the shoes on the star adjusters at the hub up tight on the drums and then back off just enough for no drag. If that improves and reduces Toyota's recommended number of clicks for the hand lever by 2 to 3 then that will suit me. My MG is exactly the same system and I have that full on at 3 to 4 clicks of the hand lever. I appreciate that lever/fulcrums of the cable run may differ between cars but I find Toyota's recommended number of clicks on the hand lever excessive by any standard.
 

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No Denis

What I mean is that if the whole number of clicks is 10 with nothing connected (example only) then you might be allowed 60% by design. Therefor if the handle comes up to 7 clicks with a certain pull load it would be considered that there is insufficient reserve. If it came up to 5 then that would meet the spec - it must not pass 6.
 
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