Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got my new 2016 RAV4 a few weeks ago. It has the PCS option, but I have never seen it work. We traded in a Buick Enclave that had something like it and it went off any time I was closing in on another car. In the past few days, I have been very close to another car, and the RAV4 did nothing. Once, another car cut right in front of me, and again no alarms. Had to slam on the brakes. I took it to the dealer and they ran tests on it and said that all checked out.I have tried all three distance settings and same result. Speed between 10-60MPH. Any thoughts?

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
If you think that there is still a problem, take it back to the dealer and ask them to do alive test and show you how it works.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,120 Posts
Page 243 of the PDF Hybrid manual states that PCS may not be available depending on region, there being Region A, B and C, whatever they mean by region.




Operational conditions


Availability of the pedestrian detection function and pre-collision braking function depend on the region in which the vehicle was sold.



Regions Function availability


Region A The pedestrian detection function and pre-collision braking function are available

Region B The pedestrian detection function is not available and the pre-collision braking function is available

Region C The pedestrian detection function and pre-collision braking function are not available
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,120 Posts
TSS-P apparently doesn't work for front cross traffic, although if it works for pedestrians, it should work for another vehicle. :confused:


Toyota Safety Sense
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
Try your radar cruise control, if your car can maintains the set distance (three settings), then the front camera (maybe including sensors) are working. The car auto accelerates and brakes too.

I don't want to test the PCS out though as that could mean me crashing into the car in front of me.

What does the dealer mean when it checked out, that they had put a tick mark on their checklist or that they simulated crashing your car and found PCS to work at all three sensitivities?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did ask the dealer about the 3 regions and they had no idea. I asked if this car was set to region 3, and got blank looks. As for the Dynamic cruise control, that seams to work just fine: slowing down as I approach a car, and speeds up as the distance increases. All I know is that they had the car for a whole day and said that they had to setup and area to test and calibrate the car, and all passed. But, again I have never seen the PCS work even after they tested it. I am not going to see if it works by ramming into the car in front of me.
 

·
Registered
RAV4 HV Limited, Prius Prime Advanced
Joined
·
2,087 Posts
I did ask the dealer about the 3 regions and they had no idea. I asked if this car was set to region 3, and got blank looks. As for the Dynamic cruise control, that seams to work just fine: slowing down as I approach a car, and speeds up as the distance increases. All I know is that they had the car for a whole day and said that they had to setup and area to test and calibrate the car, and all passed. But, again I have never seen the PCS work even after they tested it. I am not going to see if it works by ramming into the car in front of me.
Not sure if yours is the same as mine, but there is a sensitivity setting for PCS. As I recall there are 3 levels of sensitivity.
 

·
Registered
RAV4 HV Limited, Prius Prime Advanced
Joined
·
2,087 Posts
Sensitivity changes with speed. The faster you go the more sensitive it is on any of the settings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
gsewell's concern is spot on. The Toyota "http://www.toyota.com/safety-sense/" video shows the PCS working with a warning at 11 car lengths and braking at 7 in an urban setting. It is no where near correct. I've been unable to get a warning at any speed (freeway or in town) at more than 1.5 car lengths on any sensitivity setting, and that was with dangerous difficulty. Useless safety system. My Toyota dealer "checked" the PCS and said it was working correctly but refused to demonstrate this to me, saying too dangerous??? Some PCS! Some 2015 models of Toyotas that first used the radar with the PCS were braking on steel safety plates in the road. Toyota solution is to disable system. I have called Toyota Care when dealer would not address issue. They said they'd have a technician check it. No such thing happened. Dealer SM called after Toyota called the dealer and said system my PCS was working as should without looking at car. Toyota refused to provide even crude design data for when PSC was to work - ranges, speeds, closing. Unbelievable run around. Only data found was that it did not work at less than 7mph. Daughter's Honda warns at 5 car lengths at freeway speed. Suggest others who are unhappy as I am with this inadequate PCS write to: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/. If enough people do, maybe Toyota will address the problem. Photo is from their video. Dream on.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the reply RAV4_driver. I agree that the PCS system does not work as advertised. Maybe there is a lawyer on the forum that can look at a class action law suit for false advertising, and selling us a product that does not work. I want my money back for this product!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
Interesting. We too have our PCS set to the least sensitive and there is no sign of it working at all. I will have to try the most sensitive setting next month once we come back from vacation.

This is stupid crazy because having advertised PCS / TSS is one of the major selling points why we went for a RAV4 Hybrid Limited with the technology package. I just sent Toyota Canada an email though I'm sure it will land on unknowledgeable customer service personnel who will write just about anything.


I'm surprised Toyota would do such a stunt since there was already a class action suit filed by Prius owners:
http://www.hybridcars.com/national-class-action-filed-for-prius-pre-collision-system/


There's this review on Edmunds that lend support to the PCS not working:
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/rav4/2016/consumer-reviews/review-836772822467878912/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Thanks

gsewell's concern is spot on. The Toyota "http://www.toyota.com/safety-sense/" video shows the PCS working with a warning at 11 car lengths and braking at 7 in an urban setting. It is no where near correct. I've been unable to get a warning at any speed (freeway or in town) at more than 1.5 car lengths on any sensitivity setting, and that was with dangerous difficulty. Useless safety system. My Toyota dealer "checked" the PCS and said it was working correctly but refused to demonstrate this to me, saying too dangerous??? Some PCS! Some 2015 models of Toyotas that first used the radar with the PCS were braking on steel safety plates in the road. Toyota solution is to disable system. I have called Toyota Care when dealer would not address issue. They said they'd have a technician check it. No such thing happened. Dealer SM called after Toyota called the dealer and said system my PCS was working as should without looking at car. Toyota refused to provide even crude design data for when PSC was to work - ranges, speeds, closing. Unbelievable run around. Only data found was that it did not work at less than 7mph. Daughter's Honda warns at 5 car lengths at freeway speed. Suggest others who are unhappy as I am with this inadequate PCS write to: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/. If enough people do, maybe Toyota will address the problem. Photo is from their video. Dream on.
Thanks for doing the leg work on this. I filed the form. My 2016 Limited Hybrid has no audible alarm signaling that it is too close to another vehicle at any speed or sensitivity setting. I did not think too much about it even though my Honda does give a warning , until one person on this thread said that if he did not slam on the brakes there would have been a collision. Also, I have tried to find out what the Regions are that are mentioned in the manuals, but the Toyota dealer does not know either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
Before you jump to conclusion, you need to know that the PCS takes into account TWO variables if a car gets in front of you (cuts you off) - the distance to the other car and the speed of the other car.

If the car that cuts you off is moving with the same speed or slower than you, it will auto-brake / slow you down. But if the car that cuts you of is moving faster than your car, the PCS will do nothing because it already knows that the distance between your car and the car in front of you will be increasing. Even if the distance is very small, but the difference is speed is enough there is no need to slow down.

The system takes only a fraction of second to calculate both the distance and the speed of the other car, much faster than a human driver could react.

Some older (more primitive) PCS systems use only the distance to the car in front of you. So if a faster car cuts you off, they will first slow you down and then accelerate again. Toyota system is more advanced and considers both the distance and the speed of the other car to make its decision.

Toyota TSS-P is one of the most advanced systems out there, a full generation ahead of anything offered by GM or Honda.

My wife's RAV TSS-P works flawlessly (if you understand how it works).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
Good to know that if working, it is more advanced than Honda's.

What about your experience with no car cutting you off, just that the driver ahead of you brakes really hard?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
Good to know that if working, it is more advanced than Honda's.

What about your experience with no car cutting you off, just that the driver ahead of you brakes really hard?
If you do nothing, the RAV will auto-brake and stop with about 1 ft separation between both cars (physics allowing, i.e. if there is enough traction between the tires and the road surface).

If the driver touches the brake pedal once auto-brake has begun, the driver takes over control, and auto-brake will disengage.

It has happened to us once when a car in front of us hit the brakes at a traffic light. The RAV immediately engaged auto-brake until the moment I put my foot on the brake pedal. Then I stopped the car with plenty of distance to spare. Auto-brake started well before I was even able to realize that the car ahead of us was stopping. Bear in mind that average human reaction time is 0.5 sec, while TSS-P reaction time is is less than 1/10 sec. It actually takes about 0.2 sec for your brain to process an image. If a traffic light changes to red, your brain won't realize it until 2/10 seconds later. TSS-P will act before you can even see the brake lights of the car ahead of you.

Depending on the circumstances, if a car cuts you off, TSS-P will do three different things:

- If the car ahead is moving faster than you (by at least 3 mph), TSS-P will do nothing and let the distance increase gradually.

- If the car is moving with about the same speed as you (between 0 and 3 mph faster), and the distance is less than 1 sec reaction time, TSS-P will decelerate but not engage auto-brake. It will let your speed to bleed slowly until the distance between the cars increases to about 1 sec, and then accelerate to maintain this distance.

- If the car that cuts you off is going slower than you, TSS-P will slam on the brakes to quickly increase the distance between the cars.

Now, remember that the purpose of TSS-P is not to avoid a collision but to make it survivable. In perfect conditions, it will stop your car before you hit the car in front. But the ultimate goal of TSS-P is to save lives, not bumpers. TSS-P does not release the driver from his/her responsibility of maintaining a safe distance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
^ you have the 2016 RAV4 with TSS correct?

Yeah, I watched the PCS video earlier today after going through this thread more thoroughly and I think there was a disclaimer about it not not being a collision avoidance mechanism:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Before you jump to conclusion, you need to know that the PCS takes into account TWO variables if a car gets in front of you (cuts you off) - the distance to the other car and the speed of the other car.

If the car that cuts you off is moving with the same speed or slower than you, it will auto-brake / slow you down. But if the car that cuts you of is moving faster than your car, the PCS will do nothing because it already knows that the distance between your car and the car in front of you will be increasing. Even if the distance is very small, but the difference is speed is enough there is no need to slow down.

The system takes only a fraction of second to calculate both the distance and the speed of the other car, much faster than a human driver could react.

Some older (more primitive) PCS systems use only the distance to the car in front of you. So if a faster car cuts you off, they will first slow you down and then accelerate again. Toyota system is more advanced and considers both the distance and the speed of the other car to make its decision.

Toyota TSS-P is one of the most advanced systems out there, a full generation ahead of anything offered by GM or Honda.

My wife's RAV TSS-P works flawlessly (if you understand how it works).
Not sure how you can say it works flawlessly, when I am not sure it even works. Sure, it beeps when a car or people are behind it when we are backing up, but I have yet to have it beep or slow down for a car in front of me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
Not sure how you can say it works flawlessly, when I am not sure it even works. Sure, it beeps when a car or people are behind it when we are backing up, but I have yet to have it beep or slow down for a car in front of me.
Because I have seen it work in my wife's car, duh.

You are confusing two systems. The system that beeps when you approach something when backing up has nothing to do with collision prevention system. All it is, is a warning system to prevent you bumping into something or running someone over. It will NOT stop the car, just warn you.

The collision prevention / mitigation system (TSS-P) uses a millimeter wave radar and a camera to watch for potential threats in front of you and will take over control if a collision is imminent. It will only beep (and then act) when things get really dangerous. Bear in mind that the system's reaction time is much faster than human driver. So the distance at which it will act is a fraction of what a human driver needs to stop a car. Average reaction time of a human drive is about 1 sec - it takes 0.2 sec for the brain just to process visual clues, and then you have to add decision time, muscle reaction time, etc. TSS-P does all that in less then 0.1 sec. If you get close enough to a car in front of you to force the TSS-P to act, you will $h*t your pants first.

Finally, the purpose of TSS-P is not to save your bumper if you are tailgating the car in front of you. The purpose of TSS-P is to save your life - reduce the speed enough to make the crash survivable. Any of the front collision prevention / mitigation system is not a substitute for responsible driving habits.

Watch this video.
It's a good example of how computers are much faster than human when it comes to reaction time. It appears that the robot can read your mind. The reality is that it can see, decide and react faster than your eye / brain can process the image.

The same applies to TSS-P. Because it is so much faster (and more accurate) than you, it kicks in much later than what you, as a human, would consider "last minute reaction". For example, if you follow a car with approx. 300 ft distance, how accurately can you estimate its speed? If it is moving 10 mph faster or slower than you, it will take you about a couple of seconds. If the speed difference is only 2-3 mph, you will need more than 5 seconds to realize it. TSS-P can determine the difference between your car and the one of front of you with 0.5 pmh accuracy in less than 1/10 sec.

If you want to test the TSS-P by making it stop your car because of an obstacle in front, go ahead, but let me warn you that by the time auto-brake kicks in, you will be screaming in panic and you will need a change of underwear.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top