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I have a 2009 Rav4 and have not experienced unintended acceleration. But yesterday I went to the music store to get stings for my guitar. I asked the owner, Kevin ,how business was and he said good compared to what you here in the news about the economy. I made a comment about Toyota and the recalls and that I owned a RAV. He told me his dad had a Rav and almost form day one it had the unintended acceleration problem. I asked if it was made in Japan and he said he did not know. He told me his Father fought with the dealer about fixing it but they kept saying that there was nothing wrong with it. His Father eventually traded the RAV in for a huge loss just because he was losing sleep over the whole ordeal. I don't know if he has any legal recourse to make him whole but I advised him to contact an attorney to see if he does.
 

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SteVTEC said:
Would strongly advise against shutting off the engine, until AFTER you've safely pulled over and have come to a complete stop.

The reason is, it's far harder to turn the steering wheel without power assist on a vehicle with power steering than it is on one without power steering.
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The RAV has electric power steering so maybe it would still work if you shut the engine off, but I have no idea and would rather not find out. Somebody want to try it? :lol:
I have tried it and it is no big deal. If you shut off the engine, you do lose the power assist on the steering, but you can still steer the vehicle (with increased effort). I would not recommend doing it in the middle of a sharp corner, but if you are on a straight-away and just want to pull over onto the shoulder, it is fine.

I navigated a 90 degree corner while coasting with the engine off. I didn't go through very fast, but I could still manage to turn the wheel relatively sharply without excessive effort. I will note that the effort required to steer the Rav4 (unassisted) is a fair bit more than my Subaru Legacy (which I have also tested with the engine off).

My personal concern is that if the engine is going haywire, it's not a given that shifting into N will actually disengage the transmission. It, too, is electronically controlled, isn't it? So, I'm happy knowing I can kill the engine if required.
 

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I used to drive an '82 Carolla and an '85 Prelude, and both had no power steering. If your car is in motion, having no power steering isn't a big deal. It's only when you have to turn when you're almost at a complete stop that will make things a bit harder (well, a lot harder considering the Rav4 is heavier and bigger than both non power steering vehicles I used to own.)
 

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FixedWing said:
The problem with a driver turning off their car in an emergency is the possibility of accidentally turning the key to the lock position and having no steering.
It is impossible to turn the key to the Lock position unless the car is in PARK! There is NO risk of locking the steering wheel by turning the engine off while the car is in motion (whether in N or D).
 

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bmay said:
RAV4ATHENS said:
RTexasF said:
Shutting the engine down would not be too smart.......brakes & steering would be difficult if not impossible to manage.
Also shutting the engine down by turning key to total off position might lock steering wheel in a dangerous position.
If your car experiences "Sudden Unintended Acceleration" (for whatever reason), you have two viable options:

1) Move the Shift Lever to Neutral. If you do this, you will be able to gently coast to a stop with full use of both your brakes and steering. Your engine, however, may be bouncing off the rev limiter at 6500 rpm as you do.

2) Turn the Engine Off. There are many people advising against this, but it is not at all a bad option. Your steering will be fully functional, but you will lose power assist (i.e., just like driving in the old days). It is no problem to pull onto the road shoulder or even navigate corners (I've tried!). You also will not lose braking pressure, unless you pump the brakes. Put your foot on the brake and leave it there and you will come very quickly to a controlled stop.

Note: It's a great idea to go to a road with no traffic and try out these two options, especially the latter so you know what to do and have practiced. I have done this and feel much more confident in my abilities to deal with SUA. I have zero apprehension about just killing the engine and rolling to a stop.

Finally, your steering wheel will NOT lock up if you turn off the engine. With a normal key (I don't know about the smart push-button systems), you can't turn the key past the ACC setting if you are in D or N. You need to be in P to move the key all the way to OFF (so it can be removed). The only time your steering wheel will lock is if you are in P and turn the key all the way to OFF. Try it!
I'd go for option 3 using the brakes. First off it is the natural reaction and takes no more time to implement than if you were slowing normally. the problem with killing the engine is sudden increased effort on stearing and brakes. but that and shifting to neutral are still options.
 

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rav4two said:
....
Here's a like to a Car and Driver test that you might find interesting:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

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R4T
thanks much for the Car and Driver link. good to see someone has done the smoke test for us. Good brakes and the I4 horspower in light of that article give one a bit of peace of mind. Also that article is the first place I have seen it mentioned about the throttle cut off that most manufacturers have when the brakes are applied. I heard on the radio that Toyota is doing it now, and they made it sound as though it was being done clandestinely at the same time the pedal fix was being accomplished.

I would like to hear more about the brake activated throttle cut off and how Toyota plans to do this. If it is another software change, then it would provide less comfort than to know it was a switch that cut power to the throttle motor so that no matter what the computer was telling the throttle positioning motor to do, braking would prevent accelleration because no power can get to the motor.
 

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MotoMike said:
R4T
thanks much for the Car and Driver link. good to see someone has done the smoke test for us. Good brakes and the I4 horspower in light of that article give one a bit of peace of mind. Also that article is the first place I have seen it mentioned about the throttle cut off that most manufacturers have when the brakes are applied. I heard on the radio that Toyota is doing it now, and they made it sound as though it was being done clandestinely at the same time the pedal fix was being accomplished.

I would like to hear more about the brake activated throttle cut off and how Toyota plans to do this. If it is another software change, then it would provide less comfort than to know it was a switch that cut power to the throttle motor so that no matter what the computer was telling the throttle positioning motor to do, braking would prevent accelleration because no power can get to the motor.
In every instance that I am aware, this is a software implementation within the ECU and not a physical mechanism, which would be hard to implement since the throttle is electronic. There are many different ways to implement something like this, from fully deactivating the throttle with any brake actuation, to limiting the throttle to X% with brake actuation, to some sort of graduated approach where the throttle is affected only under maximum braking or ABS activation. With the scrutiny that Toyota is under at the moment, an emergency fix might be to just fully deactivate throttle inputs under any kind of braking, which would be the most extreme but also the most easily defensible in the eye of public opinion, but would make starting on a hill where you hold the vehicle in place with your left foot on the brake while apply throttle with your right foot an impossible task.

It's all about compromises, and if this were to be Toyota's implementation of a brake failsafe, my wife and I would decline it if at all possible, and only do it when we sell the vehicle.
 

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FixedWing said:
I like the answer Honda gives when asked if they use a brake override:
"Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's intention."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971_2.html?sid=ST2010012804490
+1!

There are many situations when near the traction limits that the ability to use both the brake and throttle are really useful (and this could be the very low traction limits like on snow/ice or in mud). I like putting the onus back on the driver.
 

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rav4two said:
FixedWing said:
I like the answer Honda gives when asked if they use a brake override:
"Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's intention."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971_2.html?sid=ST2010012804490
+1!

There are many situations when near the traction limits that the ability to use both the brake and throttle are really useful (and this could be the very low traction limits like on snow/ice or in mud). I like putting the onus back on the driver.
Like being able to shift gears on their own??? :)
 

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RAV N US said:
rav4two said:
FixedWing said:
I like the answer Honda gives when asked if they use a brake override:
"Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver's intention."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971_2.html?sid=ST2010012804490
+1!

There are many situations when near the traction limits that the ability to use both the brake and throttle are really useful (and this could be the very low traction limits like on snow/ice or in mud). I like putting the onus back on the driver.
Like being able to shift gears on their own??? :)
Sure, I love DSG's and paddles!

Seriously, having spent several thousand miles on a racetrack doing HPDEs, many of those miles in manual shift vehicles, I know with absolutely certainty I would never buy a manual shift vehicle again. Automated manuals and even slushbox automatics are so much faster for everyone other than absolutely even the best drivers, and even then that might not be the case. One of the major car mags had a professional race car driver take out the Corvette ZR1 and on a racetrack with a lap time of somewhere in the 75-90 second range, and he said he would be easily two seconds a lap faster with an automatic.
 

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I prefer pure manual just because I like the feel of using the clutch and one of the things I hate about any type of automatic is the fact it keeps wanting to go forward when you are stopped. I've had the car creep on me a few times cause I didn't hold the brake down hard enough cause I'm used to the vehicle being in neutral and not having to press the brakes very hard. Also, I get the engine braking in the manual. One thing I absolutely hate is being stuck in stop and go traffic going downhill. It's tiring cause the vehicle keeps wanting to go forward and I have to press on the brake hard unless I keep putting it into Neutral when stopped and the D when it's time to move again.

I find sequential gearboxes, DSG's and paddles just make it feel like a video game. I don't really care about how fast the car changes gears. It just doesn't have the same feel. I just prefer the feel of the traditional manual, but apparently, I'm in the minority.
 

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Hi,

I just registered since I started reading up on this. I have a 2011 RAV4 - Auto 4WD.

I just experienced this on Memorial day (yesterday). I was stopped at a light, out of the blue it was like someone had goosed the throttle. I started trying to push forward but I already had my foot on the brake so it was holding it back. I was surprised and before I pushed the brake harder I looked at the gas pedal and it was free and clear. Then I pushed down harder on the brake which stopped the forward throttle.

I was going to bring it in for an appointment but they insisted in towing the vehicle immediately.. I currently don't have my ride, they came and picked it up a couple of hours ago...

So, It IS REAL, It REALLY happens. I drove a race car for years, I'm no amateur. Although, I will admit I didn't believe it at all until I experienced it first hand.

Best..
 

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Hi,

I just registered since I started reading up on this. I have a 2011 RAV4 - Auto 4WD.

I just experienced this on Memorial day (yesterday). I was stopped at a light, out of the blue it was like someone had goosed the throttle. I started trying to push forward but I already had my foot on the brake so it was holding it back. I was surprised and before I pushed the brake harder I looked at the gas pedal and it was free and clear. Then I pushed down harder on the brake which stopped the forward throttle.

I was going to bring it in for an appointment but they insisted in towing the vehicle immediately.. I currently don't have my ride, they came and picked it up a couple of hours ago...

So, It IS REAL, It REALLY happens. I drove a race car for years, I'm no amateur. Although, I will admit I didn't believe it at all until I experienced it first hand.

Best..
Good Luck don't forget neutral is your best friend.
 

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Hi,

I just registered since I started reading up on this. I have a 2011 RAV4 - Auto 4WD.

I just experienced this on Memorial day (yesterday). I was stopped at a light, out of the blue it was like someone had goosed the throttle. I started trying to push forward but I already had my foot on the brake so it was holding it back. I was surprised and before I pushed the brake harder I looked at the gas pedal and it was free and clear. Then I pushed down harder on the brake which stopped the forward throttle.

I was going to bring it in for an appointment but they insisted in towing the vehicle immediately.. I currently don't have my ride, they came and picked it up a couple of hours ago...

So, It IS REAL, It REALLY happens. I drove a race car for years, I'm no amateur. Although, I will admit I didn't believe it at all until I experienced it first hand.

Best..
At least it sounds like they are taking you seriously. Let us know how you make out.
 

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Unintended "alleged" acceleration problems Rav4 2010

:mad:I just had this problem twice in two weeks. The second time it happened 6 days after I had gotten the car back from the Toyota service. The first time it happened when I pushed the break at a red light. There was another car in front of me when the engine start to rev to the point that the whole vehicle was shaking while I was pressing the break with all my strength. The service staff were very polite and asked me to answer a set of questions (no doubt prepared by their legal team.) According to the results of their inspection all controls were working fine. The second time, I was driving slowly within a shopping center. When I pushed the break to stop at a STOP sign, the car suddenly began to accelerate. My husband who was with me told me to shut off the engine and I was able to stop the car. I immediately reported the problem to Toyota and this time I was questioned by several different people and referred to the Toyota Customer Experience and again asked to answer the same set of questions. They referred me back to the Toyota dealer service. After waiting for a call back for the whole day, I was finally able to talk to the staff assigned to my case. This time the experience was less than pleasant. He insisted that the previous inspection has shown no problems and, thus, that i could not bring my car for another inspection or get a loaner until Toyota authorize it. He added that it would not be covered by extended guarantee and that I would be "stuck" with the problem if they did not find anything "wrong."
This is my third RAV4. My son is still driving the 1997 model and we have never had a problem. I only have 15,000 in this car which is fully paid for. I am feeling frustrated and angry when I am being treated as somebody who is making the whole thing up even though the only thing I asked is that the car be inspected and repaired since I do not want to be responsible for anybody's death or injury, and I do not want to be hurt either. I can only describe the experience as extremely frightening though I had no problems with my underwear.
 

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Our rav's have a black boxes, as far as I know. In case of an accident, they will figure out quickly what did you do with the pedals.
 

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:mad:I just had this problem twice in two weeks. The second time it happened 6 days after I had gotten the car back from the Toyota service. The first time it happened when I pushed the break at a red light. There was another car in front of me when the engine start to rev to the point that the whole vehicle was shaking while I was pressing the break with all my strength.
I'm sorry about your scary experiences with your RAV4. When the whole unintended acceleration story broke in the news, I practiced shifting into Park in a parking lot so I would be prepared if it ever happened.

Toyota recently started a free service program where the dealership reprograms the engine control computer to prevent the unintended acceleration. Users that have had this done say it remaps the throttle response so that the accelerator is not as sensitive. Also if the brake and accelerator are pressed at the same time, it lowers the engine speed to idle. If you register at toyotaowners.com, you can see if your RAV4 is eligible for this free upgrade. Good luck!
 
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