Raptor Lights Caused Alternator/Battery Failure? Please help.

1795 Views 30 Replies 9 Participants Last post by herbz1676, 19 d ago

hollywoodhusky

Hey everyone,

New Rav4 owner here, in a little bit of a pickle. I purchased a 2020 Rav4 XLE with 27k miles, single owner, no accidents about 2 weeks ago. Haven't had any problems with it at all up until this week when I decided I was going to try doing some modifications. Please keep in mind that I am not a "car guy" by any means, and simply assembling IKEA furniture is an accomplishment for me. But alas, my hubris got the best of me.

Here's what happened.

Two days ago, I installed raptor lights by following several YouTube tutorials like this and this. After all, they made it look so easy. I clipped the lights into the grill and then moved on to wiring. I wrapped the (black) ground wire around a nearby bolt (not the battery) and secured it in place. Then for the power (red), the kit came with a little "add-a-fuse" type splitter for the fuse along with a 10amp fuse. In the tutorials, most people use the 7.5amp USB2 fuse located in the upper left corner of the fuse box. So that's what I did. I plugged the "add-a-fuse" into the 7.5amp USB2 slot, and then put back the original 7.5amp fuse into one of the slots before filling the other slot with the 10amp fuse that came with the kit. (I suspect this is where I messed up).

Anyways, I turned on the ignition and the raptor lights worked beautifully. I was so proud of myself! It was my first time doing any kind of work "under the hood" and it seemed to have worked. I drove around the rest of the day, no problem.

Then things started coming apart....

The next day, I was driving around and the dashboard tells me that the "Start Stop system" has a malfunction, and that it's been disabled and that I should see a dealer. I didn't sweat it, as I never really liked the system anyways. A few hours later, I see a "battery charging" alert on the dash. Again, didn't think anything of it.

Then today (the second day), I was dropping my daughter off at school when she started playing with the power windows. Suddenly, I felt the steering wheel lock up (lose power steering). I look at my dash, and a whole myriad of alerts and lights lit up. The power steering symbol, the parking brake malfunction, the battery symbol, and several other system alerts. It was honestly scary and overwhelming. Panicked, I managed to immediately pull over and shut off my engine. Upon trying to restart it, I realized it wouldn't start. Very similar to a dead battery type situation, the dash lit up but the car wouldn't start– only make that clicking sound that we all dread.

I managed to get someone to jump start my car, which worked at first, but immediately died a few moments after... which in my very limited knowledge of cars means that it's the alternator, right? Anyways, I remove the raptor lights completely (removed the ground wire from the bolt, and removed the "add-a-fuse" from the USB2 slot, putting back in the original 7.5amp fuse). I checked to make sure that fuse wasn't blown and it wasn't. Then we try jumping it again, this time leaving the cables on for 30 minutes. But no luck. After disconnecting, the car died a few moments later again.

I've since had the car towed back to my home, but I'm confused, frustrated, and honestly a bit embarrassed feeling like I must have made a real rookie mistake without even knowing it. So many people seemed to have had such an easy time installing these lights.

Right now, all I can think about it that I must have made a dumb mistake with the fuses. Maybe I should have only put one of the fuses back in the "add-a-fuse" instead of both? (10amp + 7.5amp in a 7.5amp slot) Maybe they should have been reversed in terms of which slot they were in? (Does that matter?) Anyway, I'm really hoping I didn't really mess up my car in a costly way. What should I do? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks.

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Tazio Nuvolari

· #21 · 3 mo ago

Big Bird said:
Here you go. I posted this up. The TSB was only for hybrids.

Boosting (jump starting) precaution

Not sure if this was posted before but always a good reminder.

www.rav4world.com

Thanks for re-posting this information. That is a kind of strange TSB in that it does not say or explain why connecting the jump starter negative to the strut tower bolts fries the ECU. Why do you think it does? EMP surge? I have trouble wrapping my mind around the concept that negative wires from accessories or jump starters cannot be connected to the same ground as the ECU--the negative wires should have no current going through them.

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Big Bird

· #22 · 3 mo ago

Tazio Nuvolari said:
Thanks for re-posting this information. That is a kind of strange TSB in that it does not say or explain why connecting the jump starter negative to the strut tower bolts fries the ECU. Why do you think it does? EMP surge? I have trouble wrapping my mind around the concept that negative wires from accessories or jump starters cannot be connected to the same ground as the ECU--the negative wires should have no current going through them.

Not sure but I hear you. Guess the better ground goes through the ECM? I saw it first hand and is a issue.

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ZakazMO

· #23 · 3 mo ago

Tazio Nuvolari said:
Thanks for re-posting this information. That is a kind of strange TSB in that it does not say or explain why connecting the jump starter negative to the strut tower bolts fries the ECU. Why do you think it does? EMP surge? I have trouble wrapping my mind around the concept that negative wires from accessories or jump starters cannot be connected to the same ground as the ECU--the negative wires should have no current going through them.

Tazio, I’m glad you’ve asked the question, it got me searching around for an answer. Good info is actually pretty hard to track down on this topic, but check out this article:

'Bright Idea' For Short Detection | MOTOR

All things considered, it was a very interesting article inThe New York Times warning readers about the dangers of jump-starting their stalled automobiles. What made it so interesting was that instead of the usual warnings, this article recommended some truly oddball procedures that were to be...

www.motor.com

It’s a bit dated (1998), but it explains transients and how they can occur during a jump start.

Basically, jumping a fully discharged battery can cause an extremely high transient voltage spike of up to 2kv for a millisecond or two when you disconnect the donor. You don’t want anything that runs on 5v like a computer anywhere near that. Clamping the negative return to the engine block will dissipate the transient. Clamping it to the ECU bracket will likely fry the ECU. There is also probably some electromagnetic pulse stuff happening too, like you’ve said.

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Tazio Nuvolari

· #24 · 3 mo ago

ZakazMO said:
Tazio, I’m glad you’ve asked the question, it got me searching around for an answer. Good info is actually pretty hard to track down on this topic, but check out this article:

'Bright Idea' For Short Detection | MOTOR

All things considered, it was a very interesting article inThe New York Times warning readers about the dangers of jump-starting their stalled automobiles. What made it so interesting was that instead of the usual warnings, this article recommended some truly oddball procedures that were to be...

www.motor.com

It’s a bit dated (1998), but it explains transients and how they can occur during a jump start.

Basically, jumping a fully discharged battery can cause an extremely high transient voltage spike of up to 2kv for a millisecond or two when you disconnect the donor. You don’t want anything that runs on 5v like a computer anywhere near that. Clamping the negative return to the engine block will dissipate the transient. Clamping it to the ECU bracket will likely fry the ECU. There is also probably some electromagnetic pulse stuff happening too, like you’ve said.

After reading that fascinating article you supplied I am even more convinced the OP fried his ECM computer by the way he connected the raptor lights ground wire to the ECM bracket bolt on the strut tower. The article indicates transient voltage spikes are sometimes dissipated through ground wires. Thus if the raptor lights generated a voltage spike it could flow through the OP's negative wire to the strut bolt and MAYBE back up the bracket into the ECM. Also it makes it clear that a transient voltage spike can destroy an ECM.

With regards to the jump start TSB about hybrid ECMs getting fried it is clear that this TSB really should have applied to the gas models also because if the jump starter negative cable is connected to that same strut tower bolt that mounts and grounds the ECM such will cause damage. The only difference between the hybrid and gas models on jump starting is where you connect the positive cable. They both have the same ECM bracket and strut tower ground bolt.

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Automender

· #25 · 3 mo ago

The way the failure got worse over time leads me to believe it is not a ECM issue but a charging system issue. First the car started and you used it but then the battery voltage drop and you lost AC, windows and then steering. Someone had similar problems when they hooked up a battery charger the wrong way. I found a wiring diagram online for his car and posted in it the following link.

Reverse Polarized with Battery Charger

2007 2.4 / 2WD - Didn't jump it backwards, put charger on backwards. Assuming damage would be similar, I did everything to fix it... new battery, tested /replaced every fuse everywhere (even did the dreaded 120amp fusable link) and I don't think it was even blown. It's Reading 14 amps from...

www.rav4world.com

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hollywoodhusky

Discussion Starter · #26 · 3 mo ago

Automender said:
The way the failure got worse over time leads me to believe it is not a ECM issue but a charging system issue. First the car started and you used it but then the battery voltage drop and you lost AC, windows and then steering. Someone had similar problems when they hooked up a battery charger the wrong way. I found a wiring diagram online for his car and posted in it the following link.

Reverse Polarized with Battery Charger

2007 2.4 / 2WD - Didn't jump it backwards, put charger on backwards. Assuming damage would be similar, I did everything to fix it... new battery, tested /replaced every fuse everywhere (even did the dreaded 120amp fusable link) and I don't think it was even blown. It's Reading 14 amps from...

www.rav4world.com

Hi everyone,

Got another update for you guys! Per my last post, the battery was deemed healthy by Advanced Auto Parts, who also fully charged it up for me. Today, I reinstalled the battery and ran the codes. Nothing showed up though:

Light Gadget Finger Communication Device Temperature

Communication Device Gesture Finger Portable communications device Gadget

I checked both of these (Engine + A/T) for both their Stored and Pending codes

Finger Communication Device Gesture Measuring instrument Font

Watch Finger Communication Device Gadget Measuring instrument

After seeing no codes show up, I tried turning on the ignition. It worked. The dash had no warning lights. I figured it's only 0.3 miles to a nearby Pep Boys so I chanced it and drove there. I told them what happened so far and asked them to test the battery (again) and alternator like you guys suggested. This was the readout:

Font Rectangle Pattern Electric blue Number

Rectangle Font Material property Parallel Pattern

The guy said this means my alternator is bad. He couldn't really wrap his head around how these lights could have caused damage to the alternator, but at the same time said it's hard to believe a 3yr old Toyota with 27k miles could have alternator issues. He said I must have just had bad luck and gotten a lemon, though it is super strange that this happened immediately after installing the raptor lights.

So as of now, it seems the alternator is the issue, but don't really know if and how these lights caused it.

Again, I just really wanted to express my gratitude to you guys here. You've made me feel less alone in all this, like I have a team rooting for me. Thank you!

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ZakazMO

· #27 · 3 mo ago

hollywoodhusky said:
Hi everyone,

Got another update for you guys! Per my last post, the battery was deemed healthy by Advanced Auto Parts, who also fully charged it up for me. Today, I reinstalled the battery and ran the codes. Nothing showed up though:

View attachment 192847

View attachment 192848

I checked both of these (Engine + A/T) for both their Stored and Pending codes

View attachment 192849

View attachment 192850

After seeing no codes show up, I tried turning on the ignition. It worked. The dash had no warning lights. I figured it's only 0.3 miles to a nearby Pep Boys so I chanced it and drove there. I told them what happened so far and asked them to test the battery (again) and alternator like you guys suggested. This was the readout:

View attachment 192851

View attachment 192852

The guy said this means my alternator is bad. He couldn't really wrap his head around how these lights could have caused damage to the alternator, but at the same time said it's hard to believe a 3yr old Toyota with 27k miles could have alternator issues. He said I must have just had bad luck and gotten a lemon, though it is super strange that this happened immediately after installing the raptor lights.

So as of now, it seems the alternator is the issue, but don't really know if and how these lights caused it.

Again, I just really wanted to express my gratitude to you guys here. You've made me feel less alone in all this, like I have a team rooting for me. Thank you!

Whelp, that’s a relief! Time for Carmax to pony up an alternator…

Soooo, you gonna hook the raptors up again???

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hollywoodhusky

Discussion Starter · #28 · 3 mo ago

ZakazMO said:
Whelp, that’s a relief! Time for Carmax to pony up an alternator…

Soooo, you gonna hook the raptors up again???

Hahaha man, I don't know if I'm ready to test my luck again.

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hollywoodhusky

Discussion Starter · #29 · 3 mo ago

So today, I was able to drive to Carmax in my Rav4 and have them inspect the vehicle. I wasn't sure I would make it, since I knew the alternator was having issues and that at some point, the recharged battery Pep Boys had juiced up for me would be drained again. Thankfully, I got there without any issue. I explained the failing electronics system and I showed them the Pep Boys test printout showing that the battery was healthy but that the alternator was reading low voltage. I asked them to check the battery, alternator, fuses, starter, the whole nine yards.

Seven hours later, they called me and told me that nothing was wrong with my vehicle. They said they did the whole inspection based on what I said, and even took the car on a test drive but were unable to recreate any of the symptoms I described.

Isn't this strange? What do y'all think of this? Should I try driving it around town until I start getting some of those same errors and then take it back to them? What if I drive it around town and none of those symptoms reoccur? What would that even mean? Lol.

I mean, I should take the car to another shop and get a second opinion right?

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Heinzmoleman

· #30 · 1 mo ago

hollywoodhusky said:
So today, I was able to drive to Carmax in my Rav4 and have them inspect the vehicle. I wasn't sure I would make it, since I knew the alternator was having issues and that at some point, the recharged battery Pep Boys had juiced up for me would be drained again. Thankfully, I got there without any issue. I explained the failing electronics system and I showed them the Pep Boys test printout showing that the battery was healthy but that the alternator was reading low voltage. I asked them to check the battery, alternator, fuses, starter, the whole nine yards.

Seven hours later, they called me and told me that nothing was wrong with my vehicle. They said they did the whole inspection based on what I said, and even took the car on a test drive but were unable to recreate any of the symptoms I described.

Isn't this strange? What do y'all think of this? Should I try driving it around town until I start getting some of those same errors and then take it back to them? What if I drive it around town and none of those symptoms reoccur? What would that even mean? Lol.

I mean, I should take the car to another shop and get a second opinion right?

Dealerships say nothing is wrong with vehicles when the problem appears to have disappeared and they don't want to go searching. Best advice would be to try and drive it around. If it occurs again then have it towed to the dealer instead of your house. It is strange timing but I don't see how those lights could have ruined your alternator.

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herbz1676

· #31 · 19 d ago

ZakazMO said:
I’ll bet you could fry the ECM on a gas model too if you used the ECM bracket bolt for a jump ground. Most folks jumping a gas model would use the negative battery terminal for ground which would be safe. That option isn’t there for hybrid with the battery in the trunk. The leads on jump packs these days are so short that most folks jumping a hybrid use the strut tower or the ECM bracket for neg. Bad move! Too much juice too close to the delicate electronics. There’s a terminal to clamp the negative on the engine in the front toward the passenger side, but short cables won’t reach it. If I have to jump my hybrid with jump pack / short cables, I’ll likely do it from the trunk.

Reading this makes me nervous. I had a Raptor lights hooked up the same way that Hollywoodhusky did. But its more than 2 months already after it wired, nothing happens.
BTW my RAv4 is 2020 LE AWD gas.

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