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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone who has had their Transmission Fluid Change?
At what Mileage?
Where or What Service Shop?
How much?

I am asking because I am already at 50K mileage....
Many thanks to those who will give feedback...
 

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I just changed mine this weekend with 10 qts of Redline D6 and added a TransProtector in-line filter. It has 22,000 miles on it and I was very very surprised on how dirty it was. We bought a lease return from a women in New York and then my wife put 3,000 miles on it, I can only assume it was not beat on and not heat stressed like in the south. Why so dark and burnt???? --> Crap OEM substandard oil, that's why. When I put the TransProtector filter on my 2009 Honda Fit it has about 20,000 miles on the Redline there too and it was still red and I am very very hard on that trans. The crappy substandard WS Toyota fluid was burnt and dark dark brown in our 2014 Rav4. I couldn't wait to get that crap WS oil out.

I am not an OEM oil guy, it is ALWAYS substandard and is just a money grab for the manufacturers. Same with Honda DW-1. With the exception of Hyundai after 2013, they use high end Group 5 ester based ATF.

Toyota WS is a Group 2/3 cheap oil

Amsoil Signature Series ATF is a Group 4 oil

Redline is a Group 4/5 oil and is Ester based

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_oil




Get it out of there ASAP and replace it with WS if you like . Find a shop that will replace ALL of the fluid by first dropping the pan , refilling with new oil, and the starting the car with the trans return line pumping the fluid out while refilling 2.5 qts when the pump grabs air from the empty pan. refill 2.5 to 3 qts -turn the car and pump again till you see fresh oil. You will need 12 qts to do this.

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I've read on another thread that the Transmission is sealed so you don't have to change it.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Commonly the dealership will tell people that on sealed transmissions the ATF is "good for the life of the car", however their idea of what the life of the car is and your idea of what the life of the car is are two very different numbers. To the dealer, "life of the car" means the duration of the warranty period.

I can't speak for all transmissions, but from all my research I plan to change the ATF at 50,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. If you do a partial swap (ie: drain and refill without flushing out the cooler line) then the sooner you do it the better, as probably less than half will actually drain out, so you are mixing new with old... best to not let the old get too old. I will use this method for my hyundai since the dealership charges so much for just one quart of LifeGaurd-6 ATF ($80 - and I'm not even kidding!). Though I have been able to find it for $22/qt on ebay... even so, not the type of ATF you'd want to flush down the drain so to speak.

Seems like comparatively the RAV4 ATF is dirt cheap! So why not do a full flush indeed...
 

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Nothing could be further from the truth. Commonly the dealership will tell people that on sealed transmissions the ATF is "good for the life of the car", however their idea of what the life of the car is and your idea of what the life of the car is are two very different numbers. To the dealer, "life of the car" means the duration of the warranty period.

I can't speak for all transmissions, but from all my research I plan to change the ATF at 50,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. If you do a partial swap (ie: drain and refill without flushing out the cooler line) then the sooner you do it the better, as probably less than half will actually drain out, so you are mixing new with old... best to not let the old get too old. I will use this method for my hyundai since the dealership charges so much for just one quart of LifeGaurd-6 ATF ($80 - and I'm not even kidding!). Though I have been able to find it for $22/qt on ebay... even so, not the type of ATF you'd want to flush down the drain so to speak.

Seems like comparatively the RAV4 ATF is dirt cheap! So why not do a full flush indeed...


Why would you need to use ZF LifeGuard when Hyundai has one of the best factory OEM group4/5 Ester oils out there after 2013 1/2? It is called SP4-M. It is up their with Redline's group 4/5 Ester based ATF. You can even save more money by buying Kia's SP4-M that the only difference is the sticker. (Ford-Mercury deal going on)

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static...371787260727/SP4-M+Promo-Sell+Sheet-FINAL.pdf

Redline's D6 is speced for the higher ZF LifeGuard-8 spec. Your paying for the ZF name. Why so many people get snowjobbed into thinking OEM ATF is so special. I guess Boutique oil companies make some of the best products as far as add-packs go. That's why they are called boutique oil companies. Good highend extreme add-packs along with extreme quality base stocks.

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Why would you need to use ZF LifeGuard when Hyundai has one of the best factory OEM group4/5 Ester oils out there after 2013 1/2? It is called SP4-M. It is up their with Redline's group 4/5 Ester based ATF. You can even save more money by buying Kia's SP4-M that the only difference is the sticker. (Ford-Mercury deal going on)

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static...371787260727/SP4-M+Promo-Sell+Sheet-FINAL.pdf

Redline's D6 is speced for the higher ZF LifeGuard-8 spec. Your paying for the ZF name. Why so many people get snowjobbed into thinking OEM ATF is so special. I guess Boutique oil companies make some of the best products as far as add-packs go. That's why they are called boutique oil companies. Good highend extreme add-packs along with extreme quality base stocks.

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SP4-M appears to be compatible with "certain Hyundai transmissions". The Genesis Coupe does not use a Hyundai transmission. Instead it uses (for my year) a ZF 6HP19 (German manufactured) transmission (same used in BMWs, Jags and even Rolls). SP4-M is likely a conductive ATF, which if the case would fry the Mechatronics (electronics), which are submerged in the ATF. ZF Lifegaurd-6 is non-conductive. I believe Hyundai actually carries/carried an equivalent... but the last I checked it was $76/qt (on sale)... it was not SP-III, or SP-<anything>. The dealership would never put SP-<anything> in a ZF transmission. ATF is only special when you have a special transmission.
 

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Am pretty sure we have the U760F transmission (similar to U660) which is used on my other Toyota/ Lexus cars. There are write-ups all over the web on how to totally change the fluid by pulling the return line + how to ensure final fluid level is correct.

Mainia posts good information. Personally I plan to drain ~two quarts at a time and not wait for gulping for air.

When done I'll try to post a few pics of the experience. It almost happened today but might be next weekend now. I have a new pan gasket, filter, o-ring and lots of Redline D6 (not cheap).

An additional filter may help, but IMO you will be way ahead of the game by changing to synthetic + cleaning magnets and replacing the filter. Also I believe there is an option to add more magnets to the oil pan.. surely that would just as good/ better.
 

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SP4-M appears to be compatible with "certain Hyundai transmissions". The Genesis Coupe does not use a Hyundai transmission. Instead it uses (for my year) a ZF 6HP19 (German manufactured) transmission (same used in BMWs, Jags and even Rolls). SP4-M is likely a conductive ATF, which if the case would fry the Mechatronics (electronics), which are submerged in the ATF. ZF Lifegaurd-6 is non-conductive. I believe Hyundai actually carries/carried an equivalent... but the last I checked it was $76/qt (on sale)... it was not SP-III, or SP-<anything>. The dealership would never put SP-<anything> in a ZF transmission. ATF is only special when you have a special transmission.
Ok makes sense, but now I need to find out the truth if it is dogma floating around. Many many people use Redline D6 and other after market ATF in the Prius and it's trans is full if motor windings and electronics. My 2014 Rav4 had a ton of wiring going into the valve body and solenoids that is just sitting in the ATF.

I looked harder (now with my glasses wink wink) and found Redline D6 is ZF LifeGaurd -6 approved. So it must be non-conductive ATF also. But you would have to dig even deeper and double check if your series of trans falls inline with the below spec. A call to Redline Tech Line is still in order to clarify.


ZF Lifeguard 6 & 6 Plus - Shell M1375.4
('02 on 6 & 7 Series, '06 on 3, 5 Series and X5 with ZF 6 speed automatic BMW# 83 22 0 142 516, 83 22 0 144 137, 83 22 0 406 929, VW/AUDI # G 055 005, G 055 162 )

ZF Lifeguard 8 - Shell M-L12108
(BMW # 83 22 2 152 426 and VW/AUDI # G 060 162)

But yes, I agree SP4-M would need to have these approvals in writing as is in Redline before I would put it in. And really, SP4-M would be out of the question because we don't have a way to clarify anything pertaining to it in your application. We don't know if their Group 5 additive is non-conductive as Redline's appears to be. No matter what, a call into Redline's Tech Line is in order to get a technical clarification on the matter.

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Discussion Starter #10
Just visited Toyota Las Vegas Dealer, Service Department, and inquire about the periodic Automatic Transmission Fluid change for my 2014 XLE. They said it's gonna be at 60K miles, at least they didn't say that it's gonna be a car's lifetime fluid and I still have 10K more miles to wait. It's gonna be 195 Bucks.
 

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My local Toyota dealer charges $169 and they only do a pan drop and add 3 qts. But your place may not change the filter and if they have a machine it very could be the 10 qts. Double check. You really want to make sure they change out all 10 qts and that would be in the $300-$325 plus range that I have heard one place charge. Call a couple different Toyota dealers and see if they have a service manager that lets his guys do it the right way, IE all 10 qts. Some do it , some don't. 3 qts change out won't help you much when you have 6 qts left that is in bad shape. Old oil degrades new oil very fast. Varnished oil is like a cancer it kills the anti-oxidizers in the new oil. I personally would dump it now, why wait WS is not the best grade oil.
 

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My local Toyota dealer charges $169 and they only do a pan drop and add 3 qts. But your place may not change the filter and if they have a machine it very could be the 10 qts. Double check. You really want to make sure they change out all 10 qts and that would be in the $300-$325 plus range that I have heard one place charge. Call a couple different Toyota dealers and see if they have a service manager that lets his guys do it the right way, IE all 10 qts. Some do it , some don't. 3 qts change out won't help you much when you have 6 qts left that is in bad shape. Old oil degrades new oil very fast. Varnished oil is like a cancer it kills the anti-oxidizers in the new oil. I personally would dump it now, why wait WS is not the best grade oil.
Am pretty sure both U660 and U760 (ours is U760F) hold only 6.9 quarts.
 

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Here are some pics of my WS oil with 21,450 miles on it.
Wonder why mine is so much cleaner at 24K miles including ~3,000 miles of towing easily over 1,500lb including some fairly steep grades (Atlanta -> Denver). Transmission temp briefly hit almost 240F too.

 

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Mine is darker I think. But you appear to have a lot more picture light then I do. But you still have cleaner, less burnt oil. I wonder if the women who owned my Rav4 did a lot of city driving. It had no hitch on it, I had to install that. What is your driving % city to hwy. Plus, every car is different. I may not find longevity in mine for all I know. Did it smell God awful? Mine made me almost sick in a closed garage.

My research came up with 2.9 qts in pan and 6.9 qts in trans/puck/converter. Total of 10 qts. I got that out of what I thought was a copy out of repair manual. I was getting the 6.9qts most of the time that seemed to come from the owners manual. 6.9 qts total seemed a bit low for the size car. I then found the service manual page. I don't know where I saw it. That is how it worked out for me. I bought 11 qts and it just started to turn red, and as I said before I wish I could of ran another Qt through. Weird.

What brand did you use? Did you feel a different personality in shifting or exactly the same?

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IMG_1886.jpg


I lightened up the photo a bit TWICE . Still not as nice of lighting as you have. Did you use a flash? I did not. Looks like the same brand paper towel. Ha ha
 

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Have not taken it for a drive yet.. just up and down the street before it hit 104F.

Used Redline D6 - have almost two gallons left :)

Am very sure it's 6.9 qt.. weird you took a good bit more to see fresh fluid.

It's done quite a lot of city driving; maybe 40% city, 60% hwy.. there again hwy adds up a lot quicker. My wife had it for the first ~15K miles and her commute is mostly highway so maybe more like 20% city 80% hwy.

We bought it as a temporary car that could tow a small trailer from Atlanta to Denver (~$21K new IIRC), but it looks like we'll end up keeping it. I work 100% remote and now my two-months off skiing has ended it likely won't see many miles other than one last trip to Atlanta and back to get what's left there.. assuming the house sells (please, please sell quickly!).

Maybe the lady did ~100% city.. still seems odd that with my towing was better. Hey ho, we both have new fluid now.
 

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OK, now mine looks closer, but I don't know by adding or lightening a photo it screwed it's true coloration up. It does look closer? I tried to pull some yellow out and the ATF blotch got too blue. This is the best as it gets. Anyone reading this who is into photography. Did you use a flash? If so do you still have that paper towel? Can you take a picture without a flash?
 

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No flash. I just checked the phone and HDR mode is on but I doubt it makes much difference. It was way too bright outside for a flash to fire.

Luck of the draw maybe? Maybe different climates? Lady could have done a lot of city driving with lead foot take offs and heated the transmission more than most would?

Almost every other fluid I've pulled from my car has been black. I tend to pull at pretty low mileages but have only done one other auto transmission but cannot recall how that was. Certainly I've been stunned how black diff fluid is at ~10K miles (done two cars). I seem to recall the manual transmission fluid in my miata was black too.. that said I don't normally put it on a towel like this.
 

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What brand did you use? Did you feel a different personality in shifting or exactly the same?
Redline D6. Feels just the same to me. Took for ~thirty miles highway including up to 100mph and some full throttle acceleration. Transmission temp stabilized at ~185-187F.

In a week or two I'll double check the fluid level then put the trim pieces back on. Am keep off mainly in case of any leaks from the transmission pan but don't expect any.
 
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