so there must be the front brakes something wrong, sometimes from the brake pads and shims and try to replace new front caliper kits

 

i will have a look at the front calipers and check if everything is moving as it should.the brakes do pump up but when ya push hard on the pedal IE:when they check the brakes on the MOT the pedal goes to the floor but with the engine off so the servo isnt working you cant push the pedal down at all :?

 

servo brakes

what you describe is normal IMO as I have found it on all cars with that I have driven.
With the engine off: brake pedal solid but no braking power
If you keep your foot on the pedal & turn the engine on, the pedal starts to sink slowly with time.
The important point is that in normal drining situation: stopped @ traffic lights of on a gradient whenre you keep your foot on the pedal, the latter should keep you stationary without it going to the floor.
An MOT should give you some indication of their efficiency

 

cheers for your reply bonjo.
what you discribed with the engine off is correct but when you start the engine you can push the pedal straight to the floor not in a period of time.
if you put pressure on the pedal with the engine off the pedal is solid but when you start the engine its as if someone has loosened a bleed nipple and the pedal sinks to the floor immediately with next to no resistance.
i have worked on loads of cars but this has me totally confused.

 

brake pedal travel

I double checked the brake pedal on my car which I have owned (2003) since new.
It is as I thought & like you describe: foot on the pedal, turn the ignition on >> pedal goes to the floor. Couple of pumps & it is back up. This also happens to a certain extent at a slower rate when stationary with the engine on. This is how it has been all the time & on cars I previously owned.
I have no problem with braking power & efficiency in day to day driving & I find the system indeed very good. The key elements are:
- can you make emergency stop?
- did you get a brake efficiency of 80% plus @ the MOT?
- can you keep the car stationary on an incline with the brakes?
- with the engine off (no servo boost) the braking force you need to apply is much much more (similar to the steering wheel). You only need light pressure on the brake pedal when driving

Is the car new to you? This will put your mind on the other hand you may find some discrepencies with your case which may be useful.
Good luck[/list]

 

hello bonjo,thank you for your time and efforts to help me.
when the car went in to have its mot it didnt get as far as the brake test as far i know because of the brake pedal going to the floor.
i took the fuse out of the abs and took it for a spin and i can get all 4 wheels locking up and it will hold on a hill with just the foot pedal being applied.
i have owned the car for about 2 years but i cant recall the pedal ever hitting the floor until it was bought to my attention at its mot.
since we last spoke the rav has been into our local toyota main dealer for investigation and all they came up with was replacing the front discs and pads because when you clamp the front brake hoses off the pedal is fine (unable to push to the floor) pointing to a issue on the front somewhere.i have now replaced the front discs and fitted mintex brake pads and guess what.NO CHANGE .i have tried a few other cars(friends cars)to see what there brakes pedals are like and they all seem good and hard compaired to mine.i am really stuck now for ideas.

 

Well I would not have thought disc or pads would create the effects you described. Shame about the waste of money.
What is good is that you seem yo have proper braking when driving; has your car passed its MOT?
In my experince the only things that affect the feel of the brake pedal (spongyness) are:
1-old/ contaminated brake fluid (which you have chaged)
2-air in the brake fluid (depending on how you bleed it, you can end up air near specific calipers)
3-bulging brake hose (ageing brake hose can start to expand when the fluid pressure increases). These can be renewed with the standard type or braided type

I can't thing of any more ideas to pass on but good luck in you search & keep us posted of the outcome.

 

I'd have thought the bulging hose to be the most likely cause but it may be several causes contributing.

For example one of my front calliper slides seized and made the pedal feel spongy with an inch or two of lost motion as the pressure caused the disc rotor to deflect under braking. Again, the pedal was solid without servo.

Definitely worth having someone press the pedal repeatedly while you look at and feel the hoses and discs.

 

More information on this subject here

See http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92769&hl=brake


Regards
Ian

 

hi,

this is my first time
recently took rav4 for mot ,passed ok ,but advised to change the front pads as they were nearly worn out,
i bought the pads next day and fitted the drivers side first , one at a time to avoid mix up or fitting wrong ,copper greased the shims replaced them back into caliper ,all ok, nothing seized or tight
next the piston in the caliper was pushed back in using a g clamp, no probs there.
i caliper was then replaced over the pads and the bolt put back in and tighten up. but before i put back on the wheel i pumped the brake pedal a few times ( with engine off ) just to take up the play between the piston and pads ,all ok and solid near the top . but then when i started the engine the pedal travelled to the floor as the servo kicked in,
i found this quite strange to travel this far as i never noticed this before i changed the pads, anyway i changed the passenger side the same way with no probs at all. i still have this travel to the floor on the pedal when the engine is started but it is solid and perfect when off, the brakes work fine through and are stopping and holding perfect,
there are no bulging hoses ,air leaks in the servo parts , faulty master cylinder, caliper leaks or seized pins , fluid level correct and clean.
i do not think this is a fault ,but just the way it should be ,and i will get use to in time
sorry to go on but i hopes this helps others with the same common problem this is

 

I wonder if you have had the fluid changed recently? It absorbs water over a period and some corrosion can set in the ferrous parts. Perhaps some gas is formed within the fluid and can lead to a spongy feel. I any case, I would bleed the entire system if you don't know that this has been done recently.
When I hear these comments about the pedal going to the floor with the engine running, I wonder what kind of pressure is being applied. With mine, enough pressure to lock the wheels in the dry (or at least, cause the ABS to kick in) will only give about 5 cm deflection.