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Discussion Starter #1
Just bringing up this thread for fun, but Toyota regulated the RAV4 to a net 194HP and 206 lb-ft of torque, kinda like Tesla not initially offering full capability of thier performance in the model S.

The RAV4 ICE motor is rated at 112HP and 206 lb-ft. MG2 (main electric drive motor) is rated at 140HP and 199 lb-ft. MGR (rear wheel electric drive motor) is rated at 67HP and about 95 lb-ft. So, if the battery and electrical system was capable to deliver the full 155kW of power and the drive train was strong enough, in theory I guess the RAV could be rated at 319HP and 500 lb-ft.

Now I know the current drive train can not handle this type of power, but I am sure one could find a happy conservative median that the current electrical system might be able to handle without jeopardizing reliability with some software tweaks. Maybe a 10-20% bump?

I wonder what is the first weakest link or first limiting factor in the hybrid system or drivetrain if one started to 'amp' up the systems output?

Of course if one was actually able to get this full performance it would only be available in short bursts due to the limited 1.6kWh battery.
 

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I wonder what is the first weakest link or first limiting factor in the hybrid system or drivetrain if one started to 'amp' up the systems output?
The decisive breaking point is the corporate goal to have a killer CAFE rating.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am sure that is factored in, but if Toyota untilized the electrical system more, they could increase MPG, but in order to do so, at the minimum they would have to increase the size of the battery which in turn would encroach more into interior space and increase the price.
 

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I am sure that is factored in, but if Toyota untilized the electrical system more, they could increase MPG, but in order to do so, at the minimum they would have to increase the size of the battery which in turn would encroach more into interior space and increase the price.
Considerations include politics - the trading of CAFE related credits and allowances. For some time Toyota led the world in credits - that is money, and it drives the business. If they want a more powerful utilitarian vehicle, they got the Highlander ... at a significant price point and lesser fuel efficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The thread isn't intended to get into Toyota's business model of the RAV4. The thread is more along the lines to discuss the real potential the RAV4 Hybrid currently has that could be unleashed.

I could see Toyota carrying over the same proven hybrid system to the next generations that is already common to the Camry and Lexus NX. If Toyota did this and replaced the battery with a more powerful lithium battery, Toyota could easily bump up the power output of the electrical motors which would translate to higher mpg and better performance.

But for our discussion, one could hack into the software and make modest increases to the power output of the electrical motors themselves. It's along the same concept as 'chipping' a motor.

I am just pointed out he potential the RAV4 hybrid has if one tried hacking into it. I am sure someday down the road there will be a YouTube video of someone doing this.
 

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The ICE and electric motor and torque figures are never additive. I don't know if that's a software or a hardware limitation. What I do know is that the typical hybrid buyer is more interested in mileage than speed. If one wants a fast SUV, they are available to anyone who can afford one.
 

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Hacking a car is intriguing, but I'd probably pop for the Lexus RX 450h F SPORT. You buying? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The 3 motor's POTENTIALs can be additive, however they are not currently additive because Toyota has set limitations on the system so all 3 potentials cannot be harnessed at the same time. I suppose one could make these hacks in the goal to achieve the need for speed. Or one could also make the same hacks in the goal to achieve better mileage by relying more on the electric motors and less on ICE. As said before, one would probably have to upgrade the battery to reliably do this over a long life span. Also one could do the hack in order to drive faster in EV mode but would also require a few others mods in the hack. I believe the Prius plugin can go up to 61 mph in EV mode, in which I think the limiting factor to 61 mpg is MG1's rotational speed. Being the systems transaxle is the same, just different gear ratios, I would think you would be able to bump up the RAV4's EV speed significantly.

Again, I am just pointing out that the RAV4 Hybrid is connected to one hell of a potential power plant and we are sitting behind he wheel of a sleeping muscle car. I am not saying it would be a practical mod for you or I to do, but the potential is there and someday someone will take advantage of it.
 

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Hmmm - back to the days a few years ago when hybrid vehicles were being touted by manufacturers as being performance vehicles . . .:wink
 

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Discussion Starter #10
In other terms, for folks not completely understanding the hybrid synergy drive, it is pretty darn sexy engineering. However this sexyness is packaged up in grandma's wardrobe. This synergy drive could be rocking with a new Victoria Secrets wardrobe...
 

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... and outrun a Tesla. :wink
That still won't happen. 155kW vs. 450+ kW. Not to mention, the RAV4 battery would go from full to empty in less than a minute (edit) if it was able to supply 155kW over that short time period, but it would definitely surprise the Tesla's driver that we could somewhat hang with him in his rear view mirror.
 

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Weak link pretty much has to be the inverter/converter system, which already requires water cooling. The same limitation exists in the speed (RPM) capability of MG2. If you allowed MG2 to max charge at 80MPH you'd quickly see the inverter melt down. Likewise the system cannot handle the current required for electric drive at 80MPH.

Most people will be impressed with the response of the hybrid system at low speeds, but at higher speeds its a pooch. Prius and Camry hybrids have been surprising people at stoplights for a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where did 80mph come from, or is that just a random figure? Being the Prius EV is limited to 61mph, I would think the RAV4 limit would be in that area as well, I don't think there is a huge gear ratio difference?

You might be right about inverter, a better cooling core might be in order.

I think folks feel that instant high torque the electric motors provide that makes it feel impressive. However, the Prius is no speed demon, 0-60 times is over 9 seconds which is average at best I suppose, but certainly won't turn any heads. Although I agree most folks think the Prius and hybrids in general are slow, but that's just because most hybrid drivers are light footed and they have never driven one for themselves.
 

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Where did 80mph come from, or is that just a random figure? Being the Prius EV is limited to 61mph,.
The reason they are limited is because of the currents involved. The Generation 3 system added another planetary gear on MG2 which pushed the speed limit for EV a little over 70mph by reducing the RPM of the motor.

Yes, the Pruis is slow at 0-60, but not so slow at 0-30.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The reason they are limited is because of the currents involved. The Generation 3 system added another planetary gear on MG2 which pushed the speed limit for EV a little over 70mph by reducing the RPM of the motor.

Yes, the Pruis is slow at 0-60, but not so slow at 0-30.
Adding the planetary gear to MG2 in turn reduced the speed of MG1. MG1 was the limiting factor in EV speed, right? I am not so sure it was a current problem but rather a RPM problem as the electric motors top out around 14,000 rpm?
 

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In other terms, for folks not completely understanding the hybrid synergy drive, it is pretty darn sexy engineering. However this sexyness is packaged up in grandma's wardrobe. This synergy drive could be rocking with a new Victoria Secrets wardrobe...
Lemmie guess - Sunday's for you are for lazing back, drinking coffee, smoking reefer, dreaming and posting here.
.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Lemmie guess - Sunday's for you are for lazing back, drinking coffee, smoking reefer, dreaming and posting here.
.
No on all accounts except for lazing back. Fighting off a nasty cough/cold that has left me light headed and completely exhausted. Just part of the joy of raising kids that bring home every germ known to man from daycare.
 

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No on all accounts except for lazing back. Fighting off a nasty cough/cold that has left me light headed and completely exhausted. Just part of the joy of raising kids that bring home every germ known to man from daycare.
No wonder you are delusional! It is the fever. ? My brother, I know what it is like being laid up with nothing to move without pain but our imagination and curiosity. I've lived it. Heck, my son is a grandfather. :)

Be well. Be happy.
 

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No wonder you are delusional! It is the fever. ? My brother, I know what it is like being laid up with nothing to move without pain but our imagination and curiosity. I've lived it. Heck, my son is a grandfather. :)

Be well. Be happy.
Is the delusional part mixing Toyotas with Lingerie?
 
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