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Yeah, maybe it doesn't make sense for everyone compared to the Model Y, but it will for many. I was going to get the standard hybrid XLE plus weather package before I heard about the Prime. The Prime SE will be cheaper for me than that due to the tax incentives. I'm comparing a base Prime SE at $27,720 ($39,220MSRP minus $7500 federal + $4000 CO state) with a Model Y AWD LR at $48,990 ($52,990 minus $4000 CO state incentive only). I get it - if you're planning to load the Prime up, the prices become a lot more comparable, but that's a lot of stuff I don't really need, leaving a $21,270 difference...

Toyota still has plenty of federal tax credits remaining, and currently only the Prius Prime qualifies, so they're probably not going very fast right now.

I love the Model Y, but it doesn't make sense for everyone that is considering the RAV4 even at the same price. I spend a lot of time exploring the desert southwest camping, trail running, hiking, doing photography, and I've tried to think of ways to make even the longest range BEVs work for that, but you can't yet (We already have a 200+ mile range EV in the household, so I know exactly what that entails). The fast charge infrastructure doesn't extend far from major highways and large cities.

The one aspect i left out was if someone was using their vehicle for trails (because i think most don't) and just want the higher vehicle and something for the snow. Even though a BEV (especially Tesla) is better than those due to the extreme low center of gravity and advanced traction control.

But ya, your situation makes sense. Especially with already having a BEV. New toy, lol.

ALSO - I see Toyota marking these vehicles up some on the lot. This is just the MSRP, so god only knows what these places will charge knowing that there is a high demand.
 

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ALSO - I see Toyota marking these vehicles up some on the lot. This is just the MSRP, so god only knows what these places will charge knowing that there is a high demand.
Yep, I'm afraid this will happen for the first several months based on what the local dealers have been telling me. I'm willing to wait them out as long as my current 10 year old car keeps chugging along! I'm also expecting the first focus will be on the more expensive XSE trim as well.
 

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6.4s with premium fuel and gas economy is worse then Highlander doesn't sound appealing

C&D got 6.2 on regular gas. That is also the Pre-2020 model that doesn't have the slight power bump. No one has tested one of those yet. It will also go 0-60 in the low 6's in every scenario. Can't say that about the RAV4 Prime. Like driving around in electric only mode, if rapid acceleration is required, you would have to switch it to hybrid mode and there goes your cost saving electric range. The CX-5 likely drives better as well. Depends on your priorities. Put its nice to have options.

The 2020 Escape 2.0T runs on regular gas, got 22/32 in testing and goes 0-60 in 5.7s / 1/4 mile [email protected]

There are also aftermarket tuning options if you need to go faster than the RAV4 Prime. But I think I would just buy a different vehicle but to each their own.
 

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ALSO - I see Toyota marking these vehicles up some on the lot. This is just the MSRP, so god only knows what these places will charge knowing that there is a high demand.
Something about Toyota dealers and playing games. My dad has had mixed sales experiences buying Toyotas, and I had a Costco-participating dealer refuse to give me the Costco price unless I was ready to buy. Thank goodness for a few good apples that have been floated around here.
 

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At this price, (plus 50k after taxes for the version you REALLY need),why wouldn't someone just get a Tesla Model Y?? Or even a Model 3 assuming a sedan works. The Y is a superior vehicle for the money...without question! Especially once the standard range comes out for those require a cheaper starting price. Never mind the cost savings for fuel and maintenance per year.

I realize some people would qualify for the tax incentive but even that number hasn't been confirmed. Plus i think the tax rebate won't be around long for Toyota.

People keep talking about the benefit of the 42 mile electric range but in the winter that amount will dwindle...quick. Also, how often will the ICE click on depending on the situation? And once the battery is drained, how will the performance be then? Lots of questions.

I don't know, in my eyes, Tesla is the future and is a full BEV. Purchasing anything other than a BEV at this point is sort of foolish. It looks like Tesla is going to be making some big battery advancements and SOON that will drastically lower the battery production costs and bring it much closer to ICE cost.

Why not get a Model Y? It costs a lot more. Like almost 20k more. I don't want to be tied to charging stations unless there are more of them. RAV4 has more storage. Loosing range in the winter with the heat? I have a Prius Prime. I think the RAV4 prime will be similar. It has the heat pump for heat/AC, and I'd bet the software is near identical. The Prius Prime is rated at 25 miles. But with the heat off, (spring and fall weather this is fine), I can get 33 miles from the car. So yes, the heat and AC will reduce the range, but not as much as you seem to think. I think the 25 mile range is at 55 mph. The Prius also has the weird characteristic that the slower you go, the more efficient the car is. This seems to be true down to about 15 mph. Another plus with the plug-in, vs a regular hybrid is the lack of cold starts. I can drive all over town, stop an hour or so here and there, and there are never any (gas wasting) cold starts. I have a 7 mile commute to work, so I eliminate about 90% of my cold starts over time. That saves gas. How often will the engine kick in when I'm running on batteries? Only if the outside temperature is below 16f. How does it run once the battery is depleted? As well, or better than your normal hybrid. Given the larger battery, it seems to do very well in hybrid mode. I can go miles at 65 without the engine kicking in. It seems pretty smart. As far as performance goes, it's fine. It's not a sports car, but it drives fine. And even if the 0-60 is not so hot, there it tons of power at low speeds, so it actually performs quite well around town.

Another thing to think about is this- What save more gas, one Tesla, or ten plug in RAV4s? Because the amount of battery that goes into one Tesla is likely enough for ten RAV4s. Also, I suspect if Toyota build a wildly successful fully electric car, they would not be able to source the batteries. So what's the point. But as it is right now, if there suddenly was a easy source for tons of batteries, Toyota is ready. Just pull the engine and gas tank and drop in even more batteries. Done.
 

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At this price, (plus 50k after taxes for the version you REALLY need),why wouldn't someone just get a Tesla Model Y?? Or even a Model 3 assuming a sedan works. The Y is a superior vehicle for the money...without question! Especially once the standard range comes out for those require a cheaper starting price. Never mind the cost savings for fuel and maintenance per year.

I realize some people would qualify for the tax incentive but even that number hasn't been confirmed. Plus i think the tax rebate won't be around long for Toyota.

People keep talking about the benefit of the 42 mile electric range but in the winter that amount will dwindle...quick. Also, how often will the ICE click on depending on the situation? And once the battery is drained, how will the performance be then? Lots of questions.

I don't know, in my eyes, Tesla is the future and is a full BEV. Purchasing anything other than a BEV at this point is sort of foolish. It looks like Tesla is going to be making some big battery advancements and SOON that will drastically lower the battery production costs and bring it much closer to ICE cost.
There's still a few things that come to mind. The most important of which is simply the fact that gasoline is still the more convenient and faster way to refuel a vehicle on a long trip. You have to stop twice as often, and each stop takes a lot longer. You can work around some of this by planning your meals around some of those stops, but here's the key: you have to plan your trip around the superchargers. Hopping from station to station, arranging your route and your meals around them. And if you need to leave the major routes to where there are no superchargers, make sure to top off first. And every time you use a supercharger you're damaging that expensive battery.

I'm also dubious of your claim that the fully loaded XSE Prime is "the version you REALLY need." Honestly, I'd be very happy with just the SE. Almost everything on a loaded XSE is cosmetic or a gimmick I can live without. And at $30.6k after tax discount vs $53k for a Model Y (no tax discount), the choice is obvious. $20k pays for a lot of fuel and maintenance.

Yeah, there's plenty of unanswered questions. Hopefully reviewers will get some drive time soon. Presumably it will work similar to the Prius, so there's a few additional drive modes you can select that would determine how often the engine comes on. And you should still get full performance even when the battery is low (it will attempt to maintain a minimum charge level to support acceleraton events and the like).
 

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Why not get a Model Y? It costs a lot more. Like almost 20k more. I don't want to be tied to charging stations unless there are more of them. RAV4 has more storage. Loosing range in the winter with the heat? I have a Prius Prime. I think the RAV4 prime will be similar. It has the heat pump for heat/AC, and I'd bet the software is near identical. The Prius Prime is rated at 25 miles. But with the heat off, (spring and fall weather this is fine), I can get 33 miles from the car. So yes, the heat and AC will reduce the range, but not as much as you seem to think. I think the 25 mile range is at 55 mph. The Prius also has the weird characteristic that the slower you go, the more efficient the car is. This seems to be true down to about 15 mph. Another plus with the plug-in, vs a regular hybrid is the lack of cold starts. I can drive all over town, stop an hour or so here and there, and there are never any (gas wasting) cold starts. I have a 7 mile commute to work, so I eliminate about 90% of my cold starts over time. That saves gas. How often will the engine kick in when I'm running on batteries? Only if the outside temperature is below 16f. How does it run once the battery is depleted? As well, or better than your normal hybrid. Given the larger battery, it seems to do very well in hybrid mode. I can go miles at 65 without the engine kicking in. It seems pretty smart. As far as performance goes, it's fine. It's not a sports car, but it drives fine. And even if the 0-60 is not so hot, there it tons of power at low speeds, so it actually performs quite well around town.

Another thing to think about is this- What save more gas, one Tesla, or ten plug in RAV4s? Because the amount of battery that goes into one Tesla is likely enough for ten RAV4s. Also, I suspect if Toyota build a wildly successful fully electric car, they would not be able to source the batteries. So what's the point. But as it is right now, if there suddenly was a easy source for tons of batteries, Toyota is ready. Just pull the engine and gas tank and drop in even more batteries. Done.
I don't disagree with most of what you say. You have the prius prime which gives you some good means of comparison. And I don't even hate on the Prime, I get it...kind of. Gona give my story since i have some time....

I think the whole reason the prime is interesting is the electric battery, right? Well, then get a BEV and enjoy the considerable advantages it provides.

I have always had an SUV (currently a 2018 CX-5) that I'm just not a fan of now. I was rushed to buy a vehicle because my previous was shitting the bed and should have taken more time to decide. The previous was a Ford Escape Hybrid that served me well. I will say that I probably shouldn't have an SUV because I don't drive it like one, lol. I have a heavy foot and drive a little aggressive. I've been using a friends car during quarantine and been enjoying a more spirited ride with sporty handling....I digress....

I was strongly considering the Rav4 Prime and thankfully I had time to research this time around. From watching YouTube and reading tons of forums, I ordered a Model 3 just the other day. I took one for a test drive a couple weeks ago and with the 2k price drop recently, I had to do it. I think the Prime makes some sense TODAY but in a year or two, BEV is going to make crazy sense.

The Rav4 Prime is compelling but after driving the M3 and considering all facets (charging from home, over the air updates, no maintenance, pure BEV, Musk being the man), just trumps some of the Primes perks. I get the price difference can be big (kind of why I'm going to the M3) but price can't be the main determining factor. Just may mean saving some more money to bring your monthly cost down. Plus, the fed rebate wont be around forever and is the 7,500 even certain at this time?? I'm actually asking, very curious on that one.

I will disagree and say that Toyota DOESNT SEEM to be interested in going the BEV route and there is no way in hell they're pulling engines and slapping in batteries. Plus, I'm all set with an ICE converted to BEV. I also hate gas stations and the constant price change and feeling like I need to minimize or more efficiently my driving to reduce my gas cost.

Plus, why is everyone so concerned with road trips? lol....how many miles is everyone driving a day?? If necessary, I'll rent an ICE for the random chance im going somewhere that doesnt have a local supercharger. But from what i can tell, M3 is a great road trip vehicle so I doubt I'll be doing that.
 

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There's still a few things that come to mind. The most important of which is simply the fact that gasoline is still the more convenient and faster way to refuel a vehicle on a long trip. You have to stop twice as often, and each stop takes a lot longer. You can work around some of this by planning your meals around some of those stops, but here's the key: you have to plan your trip around the superchargers. Hopping from station to station, arranging your route and your meals around them. And if you need to leave the major routes to where there are no superchargers, make sure to top off first. And every time you use a supercharger you're damaging that expensive battery.

I'm also dubious of your claim that the fully loaded XSE Prime is "the version you REALLY need." Honestly, I'd be very happy with just the SE. Almost everything on a loaded XSE is cosmetic or a gimmick I can live without. And at $30.6k after tax discount vs $53k for a Model Y (no tax discount), the choice is obvious. $20k pays for a lot of fuel and maintenance.
If you really wanted ventilated seats, a 360 degree camera and a foot activated tailgate for your Prime then the trim level you are forced to purchase in order to get them is really not a great deal anyway you try to spin it.

If it doesn't bother you that your neighbor may have those features at a lower price of entry then most of the other trim levels appear to be really worth considering vs. the competition.

Yeah, there's plenty of unanswered questions. Hopefully reviewers will get some drive time soon. Presumably it will work similar to the Prius, so there's a few additional drive modes you can select that would determine how often the engine comes on. And you should still get full performance even when the battery is low (it will attempt to maintain a minimum charge level to support acceleraton events and the like).
I also think full power will be available at most charge levels as long as you are in the correct drive mode.

However, I think Toyota's marketing may confuse the average buyer. They may not understand it is an either or proposition. You can commute to work blasting to 60 in under 6 seconds every time a light turns green. But you will not have anywhere near 42 miles of electric only range. Also, if the Prime is able to "lock" into electric only mode and it won't turn on the gas motor until you are traveling over a certain speed then that passing power you expect won't be there unless you remember to hit buttons to change modes first. So it's not quite the have your cake and eat it too situation it may appear to be at first glance.
 

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Just got a call from a dealer in WI verifying I am at the front of the line IF they get one. They are just getting allocation information and expect to know more in a week.
 

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Soon as I hear anything I will pass it along.
I decided to try and get on Prime waiting list this last weekend and contacted six dealers. Two never returned my call, one said they didn’t think they’d get any cars for a year, another bombarded me with spam but would never answer whether they had an interest list or would take a deposit, one said they would get cars in Oct but required a non-refundable deposit for a car that would definitely have a TBD over-MSRP markup, and one wanted me to make an In-person appointment to discuss further.

I’m getting close to 70 and I just can’t play these stupid games with dealers anymore. I’ll drive what I have or get a Tesla.

- Mark
 

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I decided to try and get on Prime waiting list this last weekend and contacted six dealers. Two never returned my call, one said they didn’t think they’d get any cars for a year, another bombarded me with spam but would never answer whether they had an interest list or would take a deposit, one said they would get cars in Oct but required a non-refundable deposit for a car that would definitely have a TBD over-MSRP markup, and one wanted me to make an In-person appointment to discuss further.

I’m getting close to 70 and I just can’t play these stupid games with dealers anymore. I’ll drive what I have or get a Tesla.

- Mark
Not acceptable BS....geesh.
 

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Yeah, my dealer who I bought before already talks about mark up pricing on Prime... He doesn't know what it might be, so if it's a few hundred that's fine, but a few thousands... forget about it.
 

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Just got word from the dealership a few minutes ago that Rav4 Prime delayed to next year here
This is in Vancouver, BC
I don't know if this is just BC or only this dealership, but I know they have a big allocation compared to others
 

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Just got word from the dealership a few minutes ago that Rav4 Prime delayed to next year here
This is in Vancouver, BC
I don't know if this is just BC or only this dealership, but I know they have a big allocation compared to others
BC and Quebec were the only two provinces getting the Prime, initially. Release is delayed for both.
 

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Agreed
But he said Quebec still on track for this year, just delayed
My dealer on the island said delivery 1st 1/4 of next year, I've had a deposit since the end of November, I included his email in an earlier post. Kaybec gets the most provincial incentives,:rolleyes::rolleyes: $1500 and $2500 prov and fed for us.
 

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Anderson Toyota in N. IL stated MSRP on the contract. They specifically said "they don't mark up". All of their Supras listed/sold for MSRP as well.

Also, can anyone chime in on the appreciable difference between AFS headlights and what comes standard on the higher trims.
 
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