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Conservative state have strict regulations?!? Isn't that an oxymorom?

BTW, comparing Utah and Nevada, a neighboring state. NVE Time of Use is about 5-6 cents a KWh with exception of Summer peak Jun-Sep 1-7pm.

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Phwang:




Looks like my neighbor Nevada consumes more electricity than they produce and guess which state feeds your thirst for electricity?

“Utah generates more electricity than it consumes, and the state is a net power supplier to other states.84 Some Utah generating plants are switching from coal to natural gas to comply with California's low-emission standards for deliveries of power into that state.85 Utah's Strategic Energy Plan predicts that natural gas-fired generation will replace coal and back up intermittent renewables like wind and solar power.86 While no new coal-fired generators have been built since 1995, about 60 natural gas-fired units have been put into service during the same period.87 High-capacity transmission lines are being constructed to bring conventional and renewable power from Wyoming and Utah to Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, Nevada, and California, as well as to enhance reliability of electricity delivery within Utah.88
 

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But I don't think Toyota can ignore sales tax when they set the price. They want it to sell well everywhere. Not just in places were the sales tax, State EV credits and Federal EV credits equation works out very favorably. So I think it needs to be taken into consideration for any price guesstimates.
We can guesstimate with federal tax only since this applies to everyone who buys it, but sales tax and ev credits are state specific.

Again knowing what you know what would be an incentive for you or anyone to buy an equivalent hybrid trim over Prime if pricing on it is lower or even the same after federal credit?
 

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If they were the same price I don't know why you wouldn't want the Prime... newer features and more horsepower...? Too much horsepower? I suppose the battery, being larger, would potentially cost more for any repair or replacement... There are Subaru drivers out there that refuse to buy new ones on the "Subaru Global Platform" because they default with Eyesight (the collision avoidance, adaptive cruise, etc. driver-assist suite of features) and they don't want the new tech.

The same way people don't like the fact that a Tesla has a LOT of things integrated (Model 3, Y) into the infotainment tablet in the middle. It's not for everyone, otherwise we'd all still be driving the Japanese "box" of the 80's. I still liked that Box better than a Yugo.... lol (I learned stick on a `90 Camry)
 

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There is no way I would drop down $50k for a PHEV when solid state batteries will be a game changer.

If you have money to burn go buy stock in 8 track tapes.
 

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Utah's Strategic Energy Plan predicts that natural gas-fired generation will replace coal and back up intermittent renewables like wind and solar power.86 While no new coal-fired generators have been built since 1995, about 60 natural gas-fired units have been put into service during the same period.87
Latest info on the future of natural gas plants.

In the future (unsure how fast), it is likely that Nevada and southern California can be much less dependent on non-solar/non-wind sources of power.
 

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Latest info on the future of natural gas plants.

In the future (unsure how fast), it is likely that Nevada and southern California can be much less dependent on non-solar/non-wind sources of power.
Pwang

Best of luck with your windmills and solar panels leading Nevada and California to energy independence.

I still believe for California reservoir construction is a better investment over solar and windmills.

Reservoirs not only would provide clean hydro electricity when the sun isn’t shinning or the wind not blowing, but the reservoirs would address the man made droughts in California.

Fact, there has been zero reservoirs constructed in California in the last 40 years despite the fact the population during that same time has doubled.

80% of California’s runoff ends up in the Pacific Ocean. That is why there is a drought in California.

Nevada

From your chart you sent me Northern Nevada pays 9 cents per kWh and Southern Nevada pays 11 cents. Is that peak Summer months?


Where is the 5 to 6 cent kWh info you mentioned?

Russ
 

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We can guesstimate with federal tax only since this applies to everyone who buys it, but sales tax and ev credits are state specific.

Again knowing what you know what would be an incentive for you or anyone to buy an equivalent hybrid trim over Prime if pricing on it is lower or even the same after federal credit?
Your premise is that Toyota must set pricing to protect sales of the standard Hybrid.

Why?

LE and XLE standard hybrid shoppers probably won't be cross shopping the Prime if there are budgetary constraints.

The SE and XSE Prime trims "might" be cross shopped with the XSE and Limited trims of the standard hybrid. How many Hybrid Limiteds do most Toyota dealers even keep in inventory? Why would it be a big deal to stock SE or XSE Prime trims instead if the tax credit causes high demand. The dealer network wants you to buy the most expensive RAV4 you can afford. That is their goal. If Toyota sets the price and the EV tax credits drive the cost below that of the standard hybrid Toyota what will Toyota end up with? Lots of happy customers and dealers selling 45K vehicles instead of 40K vehicles. How is that a bad thing?

The only problem I foresee is if they do end up around the same price (post EV credit), trying to find one may prove very, very difficult. In that case, maybe the customer who can't wait gets a standard hybrid instead?

As far as what types of shoppers might go standard hybrid at the same price point. Most likely the people who live in apartments, condos, etc. and as a result can't routinely charge the Prime. Especially if the Prime takes a fuel economy hit that they are unable to overcome by plugging it in routinely.

Lastly, for those "bottom line" kinda folks, the Prime will likely cost more to insure. It has more expensive components and it's significantly quicker. Two factors insurance companies like to jack up premiums for.
 

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Pwang

Best of luck with your windmills and solar panels leading Nevada and California to energy independence.

I still believe for California reservoir construction is a better investment over solar and windmills.

Reservoirs not only would provide clean hydro electricity when the sun isn’t shinning or the wind not blowing, but the reservoirs would address the man made droughts in California.

Fact, there has been zero reservoirs constructed in California in the last 40 years despite the fact the population during that same time has doubled.

80% of California’s runoff ends up in the Pacific Ocean. That is why there is a drought in California.

Nevada

From your chart you sent me Northern Nevada pays 9 cents per kWh and Southern Nevada pays 11 cents. Is that peak Summer months?

Where is the 5 to 6 cent kWh info you mentioned?

Russ
Agree on California building more reservoirs. If Southern California can be self sustaining, they can reduce water use from Lake Mead, that would be great news for Nevada and Arizona. :)

See Rate Schedule under Time of Use:

Northern Nevada

Southern Nevada
 

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Agree on California building more reservoirs. If Southern California can be self sustaining, they can reduce water use from Lake Mead, that would be great news for Nevada and Arizona. :)

See Rate Schedule under Time of Use:

Northern Nevada

Southern Nevada
Phwang

Thanks.

Yes winter rates are great at 5 to 6 cents kWh in Nevada.

Summer peak is eye popping. I can see why you want solar when you are paying .39 to nearly .50 a kWh in Summer peak.

I feel blessed with my electric bill. 9 cents kWh 365 days a year 24 hrs. A day is a sweet deal.

Downside in Utah is the December, January natural gas bill.

I realize other forms of heat like oil back east and propane is more than natural gas so I shouldn’t complain too much.


Take care,

Russ
 

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Your premise is that Toyota must set pricing to protect sales of the standard Hybrid.

Why?
I've asked that question right above, if top trim Limited and XSE Prime (after tax credit) were the same price, which one would you buy? Why would I go for a lesser model? Who in the right mind would not want 39 miles of electric range and 5.8s which will satisfy both types of customers who either want electric power or performance in one package for same price as a regular Limited hybrid? It will kill hybrid Limited trim and Toyota knows it.
 

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I've asked that question right above, if top trim Limited and XSE Prime (after tax credit) were the same price, which one would you buy? Why would I go for a lesser model? Who in the right mind would not want 39 miles of electric range and 5.8s which will satisfy both types of customers who either want electric power or performance in one package for same price as a regular Limited hybrid? It will kill hybrid Limited trim and Toyota knows it.
There's a surprising number of folks without convenient access to overnight plug-in power. They would still be hybrid buyers. Also, Toyota will sacrifice some hybrid sales to push more total units. It's the same reason you'll see a Starbucks across the street from a Starbucks in major metropolitan areas. Individual store sales are down, but combined they're way up.

And don't forget, those tax incentives are going to be short lived.
 

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There's a surprising number of folks without convenient access to overnight plug-in power. They would still be hybrid buyers. Also, Toyota will sacrifice some hybrid sales to push more total units. It's the same reason you'll see a Starbucks across the street from a Starbucks in major metropolitan areas. Individual store sales are down, but combined they're way up.

And don't forget, those tax incentives are going to be short lived.
Yes tax credit is what would make it reasonable priced, at least short term. As much as I would like to pay same or less for it then what I paid for hybrid limited, I just don't see it happening. Hopefully I am wrong about that.
 

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Reservoir's don't get filled in multi year droughts.
And they put you at the Mercy of whoever own's them.
And they take a long time to build and are subject to breakage
either due to poor construction or Earthquakes .
We have had one flood due to a breakage at a reservoir already.
And the Colorado River is sucked so dry it doesn't even get to the
Sea anymore.
Distributed Power Generation is the Future
Its like going from Mainframes to PC's
 

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Sure in 10 years they will be a game changer, right now it's all just "talk" about them being a game changer.
True, it very well may take that long; but for people that have a hybrid and pay it off; then could buy something with a solid state battery possibly. The people that don’t mind plugging in every night, buy the PHEVs and EVs now. If the solid state batteries did charge in a matter of minutes, and there were charging stations at almost every corner; more people may be willing to own an EV who can’t now. For people that don’t have access to charge, this could be a good opportunity then. It should be interesting to see all this tech happen. Then pricing will come down to where the majority of people can buy an EV. It’s kinda like when the first flat screen TVs came out. Insanely expensive, and now; pricing is much more affordable.
 

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I've asked that question right above, if top trim Limited and XSE Prime (after tax credit) were the same price, which one would you buy? Why would I go for a lesser model? Who in the right mind would not want 39 miles of electric range and 5.8s which will satisfy both types of customers who either want electric power or performance in one package for same price as a regular Limited hybrid? It will kill hybrid Limited trim and Toyota knows it.
Its not going to kill anything. Again, how many Hybrid Limited's does Toyota even sell in a given year? I suspect the folks that can't routinely plug in will still buy them. As for the Prime, you are correct everyone looking at the top trim/spec model will likely buy one. People looking for a "performance" CUV will buy one. People with short daily commutes that can routinely plug in will buy one. Why would Toyota and its dealer network not want to sell as many of the most expensive RAV4's as they can? Its about moving RAV4's, not specific trim levels.

Once Toyota reaches 200K units and the credit sunsets people with a max budget can move right back to Hybrid Limited. At the same time Toyota should still be able to move the Prime models (likely to a much lesser extent post tax credit). That will likely not be the case if there is a 10K price difference between the highest optioned non-plug in vs. the plug in.
 

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Your premise is that Toyota must set pricing to protect sales of the standard Hybrid.

Why?
Toyota already demonstrated they are not interested in protecting standard Hybrid models with the Prius. The federal tax credit makes the Prius Prime a better deal than the normal Prius. As a result, Toyota is selling 2.25x more Prius Primes than regular Prius's for 2018 and 2019 so far. They seem to be fine with that.
 

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Regarding MPG...

If they can put this in a Press Release....

it can drive an estimated 39 miles on battery alone on a single charge, which is the highest EV range of any PHEV SUV on the market. The RAV4 Prime also has a manufacturer-estimated 90 combined MPGe.

Why can't they tell us what the MPG is on the Prime? They must have the numbers or they wouldn't be able to boast of 90 combined MPGe???

Press Release
 

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Regarding MPG...

If they can put this in a Press Release....

it can drive an estimated 39 miles on battery alone on a single charge, which is the highest EV range of any PHEV SUV on the market. The RAV4 Prime also has a manufacturer-estimated 90 combined MPGe.

Why can't they tell us what the MPG is on the Prime? They must have the numbers or they wouldn't be able to boast of 90 combined MPGe???

Press Release
The "combined" means city/highway in this case, not gas/electricity combined.

I'm sure they have a good idea of what the gas MPG will be, but for whatever reason they haven't chosen to release that. Which is pretty common -- most new cars don't get any official notice of fuel economy until the EPA does their official testing. And in this case, there's good marketing reason -- why detract from the electric-only capability? Especially if there's even a slight decrease from the current Hybrid.
 
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