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I can’t see the electric version working for me as, being retired, I don’t have a daily commute anymore and most drives I take are more than an hour away. Add to that the very cold winters and the fact that in my area, I’ve NEVER seen a charge station. It unfortunate but true that you need a particular set of circumstances to make electric cars work to your advantage.
 

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In my region, electricity is cheap. One would save about 7$ per 100kms when compared to gas.

6L/100kms @ 1,35$/L = 8.10$
Recharging batteries for 100kms is about 1,10$

That's assuming you do a lot of short trip.

Like you said, depends on the premium paid over hybrid. I personally do a lot of under 40kms round trips and i'll be honest, money wise, the hybrid is still a better option, but for me it's more about the smoothness of 100% EV but, like I said, it depends on how much more they want for it. As long as it's under 3000$ i'd take it.
Don't get me wrong, I think its cool they are working on this technology - but your lieing to yourself if you think there is a positive ROI on this. Setting aside gas prices in California, Gas here is about $2.19 right now. If you had a commute of 24 miles (the presumed electric range, which would give the optimum calculation in favor of the PHEV) - thats still under 1 gallon per day for my ICE, so 250 gallons a year or so is $550.00 per year. The standard hybrid today at real OTD price - not MSRP - is like $5K premium over ICE. Assuming PHEV is 10K over ICE, then your talking a 2 decade ROI.

I did the math at with hybrids going at MSRP and ICE at 5K under, I couldn't even make the ROI on a hybrid work. PHEV will never be positive ROI for the majority of the public.

Again, there are plenty of other reasons to buy one. ROI for most people isn't.
 

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More on the environmentalist side, your everyday commute would use no gasoline. Over the long run paying a dollar for ~30 miles of range is much cheaper than $4 a gallon of gas here in California. There are also government rebates involved and over the long run if your commute is consistent the car should be able to pay for itself. Also Plug-in still qualify for HOV carpool stickers while hybrids no longer do. There is quite a lot of benefit for the folks out here especially if it can cut a commute time 20-30 minutes.
I wonder how they perform if the driver got stuck in the three plus hour traffic jam in Southern California Friday? I have no idea how far they could go if they had a full tank of gas but the topics of 30 mile commute are understandable. A full traffic jam, just not sure how it would perform.
 

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Even for my driving a hybrid has a payoff of around 4 or 5 years. I consider it an affordable luxury. PHEV would take a while to pay off even at Vancouver gas prices (1.60 a litre or more). If you drive a lot, then that's a different story I guess. But on average it will take a while to recoup the price difference
 

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I can’t see the electric version working for me as, being retired, I don’t have a daily commute anymore and most drives I take are more than an hour away. Add to that the very cold winters and the fact that in my area, I’ve NEVER seen a charge station. It unfortunate but true that you need a particular set of circumstances to make electric cars work to your advantage.
Same here other than the very cold winters. Disregarding price completely I can see where a plug in would work well for some situations but truly awful in others.
 

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If they manage to make it faster off the line then a regural hybrid that would be the only reason for me to get one. 7.8 sec 0-60 is decent in hybrid but 6-6.5 like Mazda CX5 turbo would be awesome
 

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Don't get me wrong, I think its cool they are working on this technology - but your lieing to yourself if you think there is a positive ROI on this. Setting aside gas prices in California, Gas here is about $2.19 right now. If you had a commute of 24 miles (the presumed electric range, which would give the optimum calculation in favor of the PHEV) - thats still under 1 gallon per day for my ICE, so 250 gallons a year or so is $550.00 per year. The standard hybrid today at real OTD price - not MSRP - is like $5K premium over ICE. Assuming PHEV is 10K over ICE, then your talking a 2 decade ROI.

I did the math at with hybrids going at MSRP and ICE at 5K under, I couldn't even make the ROI on a hybrid work. PHEV will never be positive ROI for the majority of the public.

Again, there are plenty of other reasons to buy one. ROI for most people isn't.
Totally agree with you there. I know for my-self, just the hybrid is worth it. If i end up buying a PHEV it better be not too far from the hybrid price because just the ROI is not worth it.

Also, if it's true that it gets more power and it's quicker, could be some extra fun too. Like i keep saying, it depends on the price. I paid about 37k cnd for my base hybrid, I'd be willing to pay 40k for a base phev but no way i am paying something like 50k lol
 

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Purchased the hybrid Rav 4 XLE 2019

I don’t need more power as Toyota is claiming in the PHEV Rav 4.

My Rav 4 hybrid accelerates plenty quick to merge and pass cars at freeway speeds and it zips along quietly just fine at 85 mph which will get me a ticket in my State.

the only reason you would need more torque (power) is if you plan to tow which should be delegated to a larger automobile.

My next purchase will be an EV and Toyota better get moving innovating if they want my EV business in the next few years.
 

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My next purchase will be an EV and Toyota better get moving innovating if they want my EV business in the next few years.
Toyota knows this and said they are going with EVs in the next 5 years but you might be rushing with EV purchase in the next few years. We are probably a decade away before they will be worthwhile and cost effective. Plugins or hybrids are better options until then.
 

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Toyota knows this and said they are going with EVs in the next 5 years but you might be rushing with EV purchase in the next few years. We are probably a decade away before they will be worthwhile and cost effective. Plugins or hybrids are better options until then.
Toyota is dragging its feet and now trying to push hydrogen again. My problem with fossil fuel and hydrogen is the lower system efficiency of 30% instead of 80% for EV.

The consensus is actually 2025 for the point where the EV would become cheaper than gas cars.
Anyone wanting to get a new vehicle from now to then should really just jump in to electric now or hold on to the old clunker for a couple more years.
I did not want to wait and traded in my 2015 Forester for a 2019 Bolt EV. Way too early to make financial sense but after driving the RAV4 hybrid with its instant torque, I no longer want a vehicle with the engine lag. I am not sure how long before I trade in the RAV4 Hybrid but I'll definitely be skipping the PHEV.

My typical commute costs about $4 in gas, electricity is 45 cents. Today, I took a trip 2 cities away... would have cost me $6-7 in gasoline for the 70 mile round trip. Cost of electricity: 70 cents. My case is about $1K in gas savings each year, so $10K over 10 years.
Then there is also significant savings in long term maintenance cost... no oil change, no 30k maint, no 60k maint, no 90k maint, no 120k maint, no timing belt replacement. That would total probably another $7-10K over 10 years.
I get skittish with a 10 year old car, with EV, I would be comfortable driving it at year 20.

Run your own comparisons...
 

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Toyota is dragging its feet and now trying to push hydrogen again. My problem with fossil fuel and hydrogen is the lower system efficiency of 30% instead of 80% for EV.

The consensus is actually 2025 for the point where the EV would become cheaper than gas cars.
Anyone wanting to get a new vehicle from now to then should really just jump in to electric now or hold on to the old clunker for a couple more years.
I did not want to wait and traded in my 2015 Forester for a 2019 Bolt EV. Way too early to make financial sense but after driving the RAV4 hybrid with its instant torque, I no longer want a vehicle with the engine lag. I am not sure how long before I trade in the RAV4 Hybrid but I'll definitely be skipping the PHEV.

My typical commute costs about $4 in gas, electricity is 45 cents. Today, I took a trip 2 cities away... would have cost me $6-7 in gasoline for the 70 mile round trip. Cost of electricity: 70 cents. My case is about $1K in gas savings each year, so $10K over 10 years.
Then there is also significant savings in long term maintenance cost... no oil change, no 30k maint, no 60k maint, no 90k maint, no 120k maint, no timing belt replacement. That would total probably another $7-10K over 10 years.
I get skittish with a 10 year old car, with EV, I would be comfortable driving it at year 20.

Run your own comparisons...
You are lying to yourself about cost saving with EV. You can buy comparable size car Nissan Versa for $15k less even after you have taken the tax credit with your Bolt. If you think you are saving 1k a year ago that means you you will break even after roughly 10 years or more even with 5k maintenance cost although it will be much less for Versa. Also current EVs are city cars, long trips are going to be painful, they take a hit in range in winter months and there is battery degradation.

EV such as Bolt certainly is more fun to drive but it's not saving any money.
 

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You are lying to yourself about cost saving with EV. You can buy comparable size car Nissan Versa for $15k less even after you have taken the tax credit with your Bolt. If you think you are saving 1k a year ago that means you you will break even after roughly 10 years or more even with 5k maintenance cost although it will be much less for Versa. Also current EVs are city cars, long trips are going to be painful, they take a hit in range in winter months and there is battery degradation.

EV such as Bolt certainly is more fun to drive but it's not saving any money.
Not to mention you have no idea what is coming in 10 to 20 years.
 

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You are lying to yourself about cost saving with EV. You can buy comparable size car Nissan Versa for $15k less even after you have taken the tax credit with your Bolt. If you think you are saving 1k a year ago that means you you will break even after roughly 10 years or more even with 5k maintenance cost although it will be much less for Versa. Also current EVs are city cars, long trips are going to be painful, they take a hit in range in winter months and there is battery degradation.

EV such as Bolt certainly is more fun to drive but it's not saving any money.
I said 2025. Yes, buying now costs a little more and probably not for everyone. The Bolt Premier with 0 to 60 of 6.5 sec compares with Subaru WRX and Civic SI, not a Versa or a Yaris. I end up paying $35K for my 2019 Bolt Premier (taxes and fees included, minus $3750 tax credit) so it is saving money for me. I might have taken a loss at selling my 5 year old Forester instead of holding it for another 5 years - but then again the fuel cost plus maintenance could mean more of a break even.

Bolt EV and others in the 250 mile range, are considered long range for now and more than capable of long trips. City cars were the sub 100 mile range but with recent improvements in costs, is now appearing in 125-150 mile range. Best for long distance travel is still Tesla, of course. But the DC Fast Charge for the other cars are growing by the month. 2025, again, is the expected time when people start scratching their head asking why they would waste money buying a gas car.


When you starting seeing commercial entities switching to electric, you have to ask yourself why... Amazon, Pepsi, Budweiser are the big names.


 

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Not to mention you have no idea what is coming in 10 to 20 years.
Then you would never buy a car, because who knows what is coming in 10-20 years. You keep driving your horse and buggy running on renewable fuel (hay) and sending messages via pigeon. :)

Realistically, in 10 years, we should not be driving anymore... unless you live outside of cities and even suburbs... like in farms or ranches. Whatever car we drive now or buy next, could very well be our last car.
 

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Yes, buying now costs a little more and probably not for everyone. The Bolt Premier with 0 to 60 of 6.5 sec compares with Subaru WRX and Civic SI, not a Versa or a Yaris.
So you are after performance more then cost savings because there are plenty of cheaper options in the same class.

Ironically I have considered Bolt myself but ultimately got rav4 hybrid because they were same price and practicality of rav4 is more important over a bit more performance.
 

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It is a 2021 model but Toyota says it will e available late 2020.
This was already stated 4 days ago, please read the entire discussion before replying.

It may be for sale in mid-late 2020, but it's a 2021 model.

 
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