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The Prius Prime starts at $3k more than the standard Prius (MSRP). So the RAV4 hybrid starts at $34k for the XSE trim. The RAV4 Prime will have only SE and XSE trims. So one might reason that the RAV4 Prime XSE will start at $37k or $38k. There is no SE trim currently on the RAV4, but the Camry has SE trim that is $3.8k cheaper than the Camry XSE trim. So it would stand to reason that the RAV4 Prime SE trim would start at about $34k-$35K. I hope that this is so, as we'll be going for the SE trim. At $35k, we'd be getting $9000 back in federal credits and state rebates, which would put our buying cost at $26k or thereabouts, which would be really sweet.
 

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The Prius Prime starts at $3k more than the standard Prius (MSRP). So the RAV4 hybrid starts at $34k for the XSE trim. The RAV4 Prime will have only SE and XSE trims. So one might reason that the RAV4 Prime XSE will start at $37k or $38k. There is no SE trim currently on the RAV4, but the Camry has SE trim that is $3.8k cheaper than the Camry XSE trim. So it would stand to reason that the RAV4 Prime SE trim would start at about $34k-$35K. I hope that this is so, as we'll be going for the SE trim. At $35k, we'd be getting $9000 back in federal credits and state rebates, which would put our buying cost at $26k or thereabouts, which would be really sweet.
Right... Your best bet that you will pay $40k after tax credit for XSE Prime. Besides we already know the price differences in Norway
 

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Right... Your best bet that you will pay $40k after tax credit for XSE Prime. Besides we already know the price differences in Norway
The RAV4 PHEV starts at 6% more than the starting price of the RAV4 non-plugin hybrid, in Norway. As the 2020 RAV4 Hybrid starts at $28.1k (USD) in the USA, that would indicate a starting price for the lowest trim of the 2021 RAV4 Prime of close to $30k. I was looking more at trim levels, which is harder to do with Norway because the names and trim levels appear quite different.

148578
 

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With four driving modes available, the driver can switch seamlessly from hybrid to pure EV driving. This new EV mode enables the RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid to cover more than 65 km* on electric power alone (battery charge and driving conditions permitting), further than any competitor plug-in hybrid SUV and beyond the 50 km average European daily commuting distance. Moreover, speeds up to 135 km/h can be reached without any intervention of the internal combustion engine, even under full acceleration.

So basically @40mile battery range and if driven above @84mph forces the ICE to engage in order to supplement battery...
 

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And most of those times are well within the time I allot for a interstate run stop. (currently pay for fuel, insert nozzle, wash windshield, wait for full, disconnect, wait for receipt, record odometer reading for fuelly use, move car to parking spot, restroom break, wash hands, wait for spouse, order refreshments, wait for refreshments, consume refreshments, wait for spouse, wander out to car)
You guys ignore the most critical problem with Tesla charging stations.

This has been well documented. The collective time it takes to charge. If the guy in front of you just pulled up and it takes him 30 minutes to charge....welll...you're screwed.

Many stations have long lines especially during peak times. No way I'm sitting.

Even if "only" two people ahead of me that's an hour wait. Then stop another 60 to 80 miles. No thanks

 

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Q: Does the Prius Prime run the gas engine on every drive? Just curious about how Prime works when you just want to make a short drive to drop off/pick up kids at school.
Yes, wife uses it all the time for shopping trips in EV mode, doesn't use the ICE at all, cabin heat is supplied by the heat pump.
 

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The Prius Prime starts at $3k more than the standard Prius (MSRP). So the RAV4 hybrid starts at $34k for the XSE trim. The RAV4 Prime will have only SE and XSE trims. So one might reason that the RAV4 Prime XSE will start at $37k or $38k. There is no SE trim currently on the RAV4, but the Camry has SE trim that is $3.8k cheaper than the Camry XSE trim. So it would stand to reason that the RAV4 Prime SE trim would start at about $34k-$35K. I hope that this is so, as we'll be going for the SE trim. At $35k, we'd be getting $9000 back in federal credits and state rebates, which would put our buying cost at $26k or thereabouts, which would be really sweet.
That would be leaving money on the table. Toyota wouldn't do this, and if they did - the dealers would not. I would expect the prime to be Hybrid + tax credit + some adder - at least until the federal tax credit runs out.

Or they should just stop making the regular hybrid altogether - which I presume is possible.
 

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That would be leaving money on the table. Toyota wouldn't do this, and if they did - the dealers would not. I would expect the prime to be Hybrid + tax credit + some adder - at least until the federal tax credit runs out.

Or they should just stop making the regular hybrid altogether - which I presume is possible.
I agree. Looking at what Tesla did (Had to lower the price of M3 by about 7.5K once the rebate ran out), my strong feeling is Prime SE will be little more than Hybrid XLE after the rebate since it has some more features compared to Hybrid XLE. So around 38-39K for Prime SE before the rebate and then price goes down as rebates go down is what I would bet on :)
 

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That would be leaving money on the table. Toyota wouldn't do this, and if they did - the dealers would not. I would expect the prime to be Hybrid + tax credit + some adder - at least until the federal tax credit runs out.
So the Prime SE seems to be equivalent to the Hybrid XSE. So following the formula we get: "$34 + $7.5 + $2k for being awesome" giving us a base RAV4 Prime price of $43,500.

The Prius Prime did not follow this formula. The recently announced Escape PHEV didn't either. Not sure why Toyota would now chose to buck the trend that they helped create.

Or they should just stop making the regular hybrid altogether - which I presume is possible.
The tax credit will eventually run out, not everyone qualifies for it and some folks just don't see paying for a feature (plug in) they can't or don't want to use. A fair (or unfair) delta between the Prime and the regular Hybrid will still have plenty of folks lining up to make a regular Hybrid purchase. So killing it would not make business sense.

I agree. Looking at what Tesla did (Had to lower the price of M3 by about 7.5K once the rebate ran out), my strong feeling is Prime SE will be little more than Hybrid XLE after the rebate since it has some more features compared to Hybrid XLE. So around 38-39K for Prime SE before the rebate and then price goes down as rebates go down is what I would bet on :)
I don't agree with the formula above but I do agree with you. A delta of ~$5k over the Hybrid XSE for the "Prime SE with weather and moonroof package" seems very fair to me. As does the same delta of ~$5k for a Prime XSE with Premium Package over a "Limited Hybrid with adv tech/cold weather/adapt. headlights".
 

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That would be leaving money on the table. Toyota wouldn't do this, and if they did - the dealers would not. I would expect the prime to be Hybrid + tax credit + some adder - at least until the federal tax credit runs out.

Or they should just stop making the regular hybrid altogether - which I presume is possible.
This is pretty close to how Toyota priced the Prius Prime, but without the "some adder" part. The Prius Prime LE is only $3550 more than the Prius L Eco (which seem to be similar in features). The Prius Prime Limited is $4475 more than the Prius XLE (with an option package to bring them closer to feature parity). The federal tax rebate is $4500 for the Prius Prime: it seems Toyota is OK with leaving some money on the table (but not much).

There's other pressures at play now, too. The Prius used to stand almost alone in its market, but that's no longer the case. There's lots of hybrids now, several PHEVs, and EVs are becoming viable for many. And Toyota's been in this long enough that their tax credit's going to run out quick. The Prius pricing model probably represents an upper bound to the price Toyota can charge.
 

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The RAV4 Prime pricing is complex, as evidenced by all of the conflicting speculation.

For example, if Toyota came out with just a hybrid (no plug-in) that offered 302 hp, what incremental would you be willing to pay for it?
 

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The RAV4 Prime pricing is complex, as evidenced by all of the conflicting speculation.

For example, if Toyota came out with just a hybrid (no plug-in) that offered 302 hp, what incremental would you be willing to pay for it?
I am probably the outlier here, but I am old, and unless it can pull a big trailer or run the rubicon, any horsepower beyond doing 80MPH on the interstate is not something I would pay a dime for.

Although I probably would enjoy an M5, just because.
 

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I am probably the outlier here, but I am old, and unless it can pull a big trailer or run the rubicon, any horsepower beyond doing 80MPH on the interstate is not something I would pay a dime for.

Although I probably would enjoy an M5, just because.
One of the links someone posted said the towing capacity of the Prime is 1500 kg, which is almost double the hybrid. That's a not-insignificant increase in capability that some will appreciates ... though it's not enough for a "big trailer" (depending on what "big" means to you), and I'm slightly worried how the Prime will perform hauling a large load up a mountain. If the power demands go beyond the motor's ability to recharge the battery, eventually you'll be limited to 176 hp (but should still get plenty of torque, I think).

I used to have the old v6 RAV4, which definitely more fun to drive. The 2019 hybrid isn't quite on that same level, but I've never felt like it was underpowered. If there were a choice between a 219 hp Prime and a 302 hp Prime, I'd choose the former unless the price difference were relatively trivial (less than $1k).

But other people really like fast cars, and are certainly willing to pay for a performance upgrade. I think most cars in this price range are like $2k more, or thereabouts, after an upgrade? Toyota is likely to see the performance of the Prime as a differentiator against some of the competition, so they could use that as a leverage to increase sales. Hard to say.
 

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One of the links someone posted said the towing capacity of the Prime is 1500 kg, which is almost double the hybrid.
Not the whole truth... Our XSE i-AWD Hybrid can tow 1500kg too. Not pounds, but Kilograms... One of the reasons to buy one.
 

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You guys ignore the most critical problem with Tesla charging stations.

This has been well documented. The collective time it takes to charge. If the guy in front of you just pulled up and it takes him 30 minutes to charge....welll...you're screwed.

Many stations have long lines especially during peak times. No way I'm sitting.

Even if "only" two people ahead of me that's an hour wait. Then stop another 60 to 80 miles. No thanks
I'm thinking there's a simple solution: Let private citizens with a home charging station sell electricity to EV drivers.

That is, with an Uber-like app, you could make an online reservation to charge your EV at someone's home.

Guaranteed reservation, no waiting in lines.

And you could make a reservation near a popular venue -- a beach, sporting event, restaurant, medical center, health club, airport, hairdresser, casino, massage parlor, you-name-it.

So you wouldn't be bored waiting idly for hours while your EV charges.
 

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Not the whole truth... Our XSE i-AWD Hybrid can tow 1500kg too. Not pounds, but Kilograms... One of the reasons to buy one.
Tow ratings have different rules in other parts of the world, the EU tow rating on the '19 Rav4 is considerably higher than in the US, 1650Kg braked and 750Kg unbraked for the HV.


2019 Toyota Rav4 EU Tow Capacity.jpg

 
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