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RAV4 PHEV confirmed for 2021

581K views 3K replies 211 participants last post by  Dr. Dyno 
#1 ·
Just came across this article. No details on specs, but it says Toyota made the announcement ahead of the LA Auto show.


Edit: Looks like multiple outlets are confirming the same.



 
#82 ·
A plug in hybrid makes perfect since for me. Typically my commute is less than 16 miles and there are charging stations where I park. The ICE is nice for trips to the mountains.

Th problem is purchase cost is quite high. I'm not replacing my 2019 for at least 5 years, I'll have to do the math and see if a Plug in adds up at that time.

Cheers,
 
#86 · (Edited)
I got close to $8k back with my 2018 PHEV purchase, from federal tax credits and state rebates for plug-in electric cars. I'd expect that the sale price on the RAV4 PHEV will be around $40k (USD), so for me, it would end up costing around $32k-$35k (not counting any dealer discounts) after rebates/credits, depending on the battery capacity. The "mild" hybrids will continue beyond this point, but I can't imagine why anybody would choose a non-plugin hybrid over a PHEV, in the same model/vehicle, especially if the net cost is cheaper for the PHEV (provided that you can plug in every night, and you aren't overly worried about long-term mechanical issues outside of warranty). PHEVs have so much more flexibility, and are so much more fun to drive, than are "mild" hybrids that you cannot plug in; you can decide when to drive in all-electric mode, and locally, you can drive most of your commuting in all-electric mode if you so choose. Since few Toyota owners buy cars for performance, I'd expect that most Toyota PHEV owners would be maximizing their electric driving.

PHEVs are really only for those people who can plug in at home every night; if you can't do that, they don't make much sense. Before I bought my PHEV, I was going to the gas station once a week with my ICE-only car; but with my PHEV, when I wasn't doing out-of-town trips, I ended up only going to gas stations about once every 5-6 weeks. Priceless. I don't know of anybody who enjoys going to gas stations. Plugging in at home in my garage every night is just so easy and so much more relaxing; well worth the extra cost, if any, over a non-plugin vehicle, and I wouldn't worry about counting gas savings. But I ended up saving about $100/month when counting electricity-plus-gasoline costs with my PHEV vs. gasoline costs only with my ICE-only car.

(There is the concern about the complexity of a PHEV, and while I would not want to keep a luxury PHEV outside of warranty, I'm not too worried about a Toyota PHEV; I'd surely get an extended warranty if possible, since Toyota has the worst warranty length in the auto business.)
 
#87 ·
Toyota has a ways to go before losing their full USA federal tax credits on plug-in EVs:


They had sold only 104k plug-in vehicles in the US, as of June 2019, and the limit is 200k vehicles before the tax credits start to be phased out over a year.

Any size of battery pack qualifies, as long as it's a plug-in electric vehicle (so PHEVs as well as BEVs). The credit maxes out at $7500 (USD) for battery packs that are 16 kWh or larger. I bought a PHEV last year with a 14-kWh battery pack, so I got a $6800 federal tax credit plus a state rebate check for $1000 for plug-in cars. Mild hybrids like the current RAV4 Hybrid get no such rebates/credits; they have to be plug-in to get them. The Prius Prime has only an 8.8-kWh battery for 2019 models, so the federal credit on that is much smaller ($4500), though it still qualifies for our state $1000 rebate check.

Anyway, at the rate that Toyota is selling plug-in cars, it would be several years before the federal tax credits go away. But if the RAV4, its biggest selling vehicle, gets a lot of PHEV sales, that could move things up much more rapidly. Given that Toyota announced in June that it's linking up with Subaru to jointly develop an EV platform, I expect to see Toyota going majorly toward EVs within the next several years. Brand new ICE-only vehicles will be few and far between in ten years.
 
#98 ·
This is it!! Think this is what I'll be grabbing. I was offered $1200 off MSRP for the Rav4 hybrid but held off due to the long waiting list. If the specs and such look good then I'll be placing a deposit for one. For my work commute, I will never have to buy gas or even in town. My work has a couple of charging stations and the bank about 5mins from my house has a couple of stations as well. This will still retain flexibility for long road trips and such. I love my V6 Rav but in the city, it's a killer. I've been saving by not filling up in Canada but across the line in Blaine or Bellingham but still, to be able to cut down my gas consumption on a massive level would be great.
 
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#99 ·
Under what conditions is this phev going to start the engine while the battery has full charge? For example, will it start up when you crank the heat on, or the little battery under the hood voltage drops too much, or if the outside temperature drops a certain amount, if you put the pedal to the metal....just wondering about how much gas it will use even if you keep the charge up on it....
 
#104 ·
Since my other car is a Bolt EV, I can give you an idea of the energy question:
  • AC uses 1-2 KW per hour normally. Can go up to 3-4 KW in 100+ F temps when starting for a few seconds.
  • Acceleration: Depends how fast you accelerate, but I normally see 60+ KW from a dead stop to merge into traffic.
  • Driving: Usually about 20KW at 65 MPH. If speeding up or down, can even be negative KW. I have seen regen happening on the highway in my RAV4 Hybrid.

The other day, I got stuck at an Interstate exit for an hour. Because I was driving an EV, thus EV mode the whole time, I figure I spent 1 KW of energy (about .03 gallons of gas). :)
 
#124 ·
It would be great if the higher capacity battery didn't take up usable space. It's possible that the NiMh battery could be entirely replaced by a more energy dense chemistry (Lithium of some type), in that case it may simply fit in the same space. It appears that the current battery takes up the entire space under the rear seat, it's hard to tell I've only found line drawings from previous year models and not pictures. We'll likely know more after the LA auto show, https://laautoshow.com/manufacturer/toyota/.

Cheers,
 
#106 · (Edited)
They'll might put in under the rear deck by eliminating the spare tire and raising the deck floor like they did on the Prius Prime, although the Prime doesn't have a rear drive unit to deal with. The pics of the Euro test vehicle looked like there was a lot more going on under the vehicle as well, so they may have displaced other components as well.

 
#107 ·
Does it look like there is a lot less clearance for the back wheels or did they make the wheel well smaller compared to the front? Or are they hauling something heavy inside that is weighing down the back (although the ground clearance looks about the same).
 
#110 ·
Based on our close to 2 year experiences with the wife’s Prius prime I will be tempted to try to find a family member to hand my 2020 Rav4 Hybrid Limited (ordered) down to when the Plug in Rav4 arrives so I can get one of those.
The Prius Prime uses forced air to cool the Lithium ion traction battery and I think it does a good job as I have not heard of any pre-mature degradation on PriusChat.com forums, and it would be covered by the hybrid 10 or 8 year warranty (depending if you are in a CARB state or not).
The Prius Prime uses %72 of the 8.8kWh capacity. It will start up the internal combustion engine (ICE) when the traction battery is drawn down to %12, and will never charge above %84. Note that the percent values are approximate. So the traction battery state of charge is never very low or very high and that prevents battery degradation with the help of the forced air cooling.
We shall see how they engineer the Plug in Rav4, but I would feel comfortable if they copied the Prius Prime hybrid systems. Maybe a slightly bigger traction battery to move the heavier Rav4 in EV mode. We are getting avg 30 miles of EV per charge in our Prime, down to 26 in winter and up to 38 in summer in Syracuse NY. Our gen 1 Plug-in-Prius (PIP) and now our Prius Prime do make us want for more EV driving, but the synergy between the ICE and the electric motors is amazingly efficient and you never have range anxiety. My wife has a round trip 15 mile commute, and that leaves plenty of EV range for errands. Every time it gets parked in our garage it gets plugged in to dedicated 120v line. We take my Prius v on long trips because it is bigger and can hold 2 big dogs. We have used up the dealer supplied gas in the Prime, filled up the tank with 12 gallons, and we still have a full tank (minus 2 smallest slivers) over +16000 miles traveled. We love the peppy EV drive characteristics and have no problems “keeping up with traffic” even when driving efficiently. I hope Toyota can bring the Prime experience to the upcoming Rav4 plug-in. I’m already exited for the upcoming new vehicle.
 
#113 ·
Not to break your bubble, but I would hesitate to obtain another "air" cooled PHEV. Too many reports (for this non-Toyota vehicle) about degraded battery capacity. Most users do no realize what is happening due to heat, excessive charging and loads placed upon small HVB. Many of them are posting about great EV distance/mpgs and not realizing that MG2 is helping them get that distance and cover for the diminished HVB capacity. One really needs to monitor and control the HVB temperature, amps and SOC to keep it healthy. That means sometimes running the engine to decrease the HVB load. Read the warranty, Toyota like other manufactures of air cooled HVB do not state a minimum degraded state of charge during the 10 years, 150,000 miles. Your pack could degrade 50% after 80,000 miles and it would be considered still good by Toyota if it still charges and starts the vehicle.
 
#123 ·
Here's one of the many discussions on the HV fueling issue.

 
#126 ·
#129 ·
Nice find!
WOW! That is a comprehensive rundown!
Battery mounted under floor...sounds like a full sized spare may still fit.?...I hope so.(y)
Up to 39 mile EV range!! To work and back on a single charge or charge where every it's less expense!

Cheers,
 
#131 · (Edited)
With more powerful motor-generators, a newly developed high-capacity Lithium-Ion battery and a booster converter, the 2021 RAV4 Prime yields an 83-horsepower (hp) jump in total system output over the RAV4 Hybrid and has the most horsepower in its segment.

I'd like to know what a booster converter is? Similar to a flux capacitor?

What they don't say is what the fuel economy will be after the 39 mile EV range. We'll have to wait on that.
 
#135 ·
Dang, pretty nice! Wonder what the pricing will be. Might be reading mine in after a few years.
My thought as well, before the Fed incentive dries up...5years and a few months at the current rate but this rig might speed that up.

Cheers,
 
#136 ·
This seems to be the best write up. I was literally going to be purchasing a '20 Rav4 XSE today but the release of this article may be a sign lol. I'm thinking of waiting for the Prime that supposed to be out in '20 summer. Thoughts?

Can utilize the plug in feature and still get the same efficiency of around 40mpg when using pure hybrid.

Any drawbacks to this logic?

Check out the Edmunds article.
 
#141 ·
Unless Toyota can release a crapload of these at once, I can see the RAV4 PHEV be on the ADM list for a while.

I am a G2 Volt owner and a PHEV is an absolutely brilliant vehicle to use daily. I am at 84% EV miles with just under 36k miles of total use. Not having to fill up the gas tank often is truly a beautiful thing. I've gone up to 5 months between filling the gas tank.
 
#147 ·
I leased Volt for 2 years, not using gas was fun eventhough it wasn't saving money, but it was slow and pluging/unplugging multiple times a day got old pretty fast. Phev Rav4 at least will be fast so I would get it for 0-60.
 
#142 ·
You also have to remember that Toyota is also dangling a huge carrot in terms of a 302 hp engine with 5.8s 0-60 performance. So it's not only a question of paying more to go green. You're also getting a high performance vehicle, something that was never the case with the Prius Prime, or other PHEVs like the Outlander. You're no longer being asked to compromise power for fuel efficiency. You're now able to have the cake and eat it too. Let's just hope Toyota won't price that cake too much higher, which is really the remaining unknown at this point.
 
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