Toyota RAV4 Forums banner

241 - 260 of 426 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
How can they say 44000 vehicles are effected yet don't know which cars they went into.

You would think they would keep track of major parts like the block
The fact that you can put your vin into the Toyota recall query page to determine inclusion in the recall or not, means that they can track the bad blocks to a vin number. Toyota also therefore knows how many vehicles are affected, although the actual number could go up or down depending on verification of the block serial numbers which will be performed by the dealers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,331 Posts
The fact that you can put your vin into the Toyota recall query page to determine inclusion in the recall or not, means that they can track the bad blocks to a vin number. Toyota also therefore knows how many vehicles are affected, although the actual number could go up or down depending on verification of the block serial numbers which will be performed by the dealers.
[/QUOT
So if they know which cars are effected why wait until April to notify the owners? Some people are going to be really surprised that the car they're driving could be dangerous.

"Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners will be notified in early April about the recall."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
While the recall of 41,000 vehicles and the possible remedy of engine replacement sounds dire, the rav4 volunetary recall is not that huge in comparison to (1) the recall of 2.9 million Corollas, Matrix, and Avalons vehicles for bad air bags and (2) The recall of 700,000 Toyotas for faulty fuel pumps. Note that all of these recalls were announced in the last month. Recalls in the auto industry are very common and getting more frequent, even for manufacturers considered “reliable” like Toyota. For consumers it is most important how quickly and fairly an auto manufacturer responds with remedies to these recalls such that affected Toyota consumers can be satisfied that their vehicle has been repaired properly and are safe to drive.
Did you just compare a fuel pump to an engine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
How can you have crappy shifting and a hybryd?
Sorry about that. I was referring to issues concerning ALL models of the new generation Rav4, including the Gas and Hybrid. I have the Adventure, which has the shifting issue and the potential AWD transfer case issue since my Rav4 was built before June 2019. In fact, I think there are a couple of other minor issues I failed to mention that are noted on this forum as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
So if they know which cars are effected why wait until April to notify the owners? Some people are going to be really surprised that the car they're driving could be dangerous.

"Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners will be notified in early April about the recall."
The only reason I can see for waiting until April to notify owners of affected vehicles is Toyota needs the time to start building extra engines and blocks and have them in inventory at the dealerships. When April rolls around (only 6 weeks from now), many customers will be calling and showing up at dealerships and (rightfully so) demanding to have their engines replaced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
So I wonder for the ones that Toyota has yet to sell but also affected are they going to replace the engine on those and sell it as "new" to unsuspected customer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
I agree. Replacing a fuel pump or airbag is NOT comparable to replacing the entire engine. Replacing an engine is akin to a heart transplant. That level of recall is worthy of getting rid of the car at that point.
The labor to replace an engine is roughly a 16-18 hour job. Replacing a fuel pump (which may also require removing and cleaning the gas tank) is a 3-4 hour job. A good Toyota mechanic should be able to complete either job.

As owners of potentially affected vehicles we will each have to decide whether to keep our cars with the new engines or not. I am in the same boat as you all as I own a 2020 rav4 (gas model), although at this moment it’s unclear if my car has a bad block or not. My own feeling is if my car gets a new engine and it runs as well as it does today, I will keep it and drive it for several years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Here’s a read from Motorreviwer.com
The modern environmental rules forced the big changes in the engine cooling system of the engines. The 2.5 D-4S engine has an electric motor-driven water pump, electronically controlled thermostat, and shut-off valves. The new system contributes to faster warm up and optimal cooling on all loads range.

In the result, the new 2.5-liter power plant is the most technologically advanced engine ever produced by Toyota. The maximum thermal efficiency achieved the line of 40% - one of the world's best results for a conventional engine. Now, when the A25A-FKS moved the output and fuel economy on the next level, the 2AR became the past.

A25A-FKS Engine Problems and Reliability
The engine has even more complex design compared to the 2AR engine series. There are a lot of electronics, sensors and small parts as a potential failure. Hope, that Toyota still uses good quality components and precise assembly. We also can see what the laser-clad seats in the head are unremarkable, and the cast-in cylinder sleeves don't have enough juice for a rebuild. That all has a bad influence on the reliability and limit the engine life. It is hard to believe what the most engines will go over 150,000-200,000 miles line.

Modifications
The A25A-FXS. The special version for hybrid vehicles application. It has a higher compression ratio 14.0:1 and slightly less power output.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
So I wonder for the ones that Toyota has yet to sell but also affected are they going to replace the engine on those and sell it as "new" to unsuspected customer
If the engine is replaced by the dealer and it is new, I’m not sure if the dealer would be legally required to divulge that to a customer. Ethically I would say yes they need to divulge that information. There’s another question as to whether the dealer is required to replace and engine on a (new) vehicle that it knows requires it as per the recall. Right now it is assumed there are no extra engines available to swap into the affected vehicles. I would hope the dealerships just pull these vehicles off the lot until which time the replacement engines are available for replacement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
I followed @SeanBeanDiesInTheEnd where he called Toyota Canada to verify if his RAV4 was affected.
This was after his vehicle's VIN did not return any recall results on the NHTSA, Toyota Canada or USA recall sites.

Today I called Toyota (Canada) to speak to someone and verify if my vehicle was affected.
After connecting with a representative, I provided my full name, mailing address and phone number. My owner record was retrieved and my VIN was verified.
As of today, my RAV4 Hybrid is not on the affected list and is not subject to the recall.

Representative said that the recall is in the interim stages and that affected vehicle owners would be contacted in the coming months. The recall process involves announcement of the recall, identifying affected vehicles, contacting affected owners, and then further contact with owners for remedies. Should things change and it is revealed vehicles which are currently not affected are subject to a recall, affected owners would be contacted via mail.

Hoping I don't hear from Toyota, my local dealer, or see any mail from them.
Praying you dodge a bullet 🤘
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
Here’s a read from Motorreviwer.com
The modern environmental rules forced the big changes in the engine cooling system of the engines. The 2.5 D-4S engine has an electric motor-driven water pump, electronically controlled thermostat, and shut-off valves. The new system contributes to faster warm up and optimal cooling on all loads range.

In the result, the new 2.5-liter power plant is the most technologically advanced engine ever produced by Toyota. The maximum thermal efficiency achieved the line of 40% - one of the world's best results for a conventional engine. Now, when the A25A-FKS moved the output and fuel economy on the next level, the 2AR became the past.

A25A-FKS Engine Problems and Reliability
The engine has even more complex design compared to the 2AR engine series. There are a lot of electronics, sensors and small parts as a potential failure. Hope, that Toyota still uses good quality components and precise assembly. We also can see what the laser-clad seats in the head are unremarkable, and the cast-in cylinder sleeves don't have enough juice for a rebuild. That all has a bad influence on the reliability and limit the engine life. It is hard to believe what the most engines will go over 150,000-200,000 miles line.

Modifications
The A25A-FXS. The special version for hybrid vehicles application. It has a higher compression ratio 14.0:1 and slightly less power output.
Yeah, I’ve read this review before...the questionable grammer in some sections makes me question the validity of some of the conclusions...I’ll leave it to some of you who might have an automotive engineering background to provide feedback on this engine review of the A25A engine family.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
Here’s a read from Motorreviwer.com
The modern environmental rules forced the big changes in the engine cooling system of the engines. The 2.5 D-4S engine has an electric motor-driven water pump, electronically controlled thermostat, and shut-off valves. The new system contributes to faster warm up and optimal cooling on all loads range.

In the result, the new 2.5-liter power plant is the most technologically advanced engine ever produced by Toyota. The maximum thermal efficiency achieved the line of 40% - one of the world's best results for a conventional engine. Now, when the A25A-FKS moved the output and fuel economy on the next level, the 2AR became the past.

A25A-FKS Engine Problems and Reliability
The engine has even more complex design compared to the 2AR engine series. There are a lot of electronics, sensors and small parts as a potential failure. Hope, that Toyota still uses good quality components and precise assembly. We also can see what the laser-clad seats in the head are unremarkable, and the cast-in cylinder sleeves don't have enough juice for a rebuild. That all has a bad influence on the reliability and limit the engine life. It is hard to believe what the most engines will go over 150,000-200,000 miles line.

Modifications
The A25A-FXS. The special version for hybrid vehicles application. It has a higher compression ratio 14.0:1 and slightly less power output.
Pure speculation. That site - which I have read - uses similar language for every manufacturer "Hope they use quality componenets' - ie I did no actual research. Most engines can no longer be overbored anymore - It doesn't at all affect initial longevity. If you want actual data - read the actual 38 page SAE report who actually tested the engine. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2019-04/documents/sae-2019-01-0249-benchmarking-2018-toyota-camry-2.5-liter-atkinson-cycle-engine-cooled-egr.pdf

So yes, we will know if this family of engine is reliable in the real world - in 10 years or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
So I wonder for the ones that Toyota has yet to sell but also affected are they going to replace the engine on those and sell it as "new" to unsuspected customer
When purchasing a new Toyota, the dealer shows you a document stating that there are no open recalls on this car. At this point the new question for the buyer to ask will be "are there any closed or completed recalls on this car?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
So I wonder for the ones that Toyota has yet to sell but also affected are they going to replace the engine on those and sell it as "new" to unsuspected customer
dealerships are allowed to repair their vehicles and sell them as new. This is why you should inspect everything like you would an used car to make sure no bolt or nut has been turned if this is important to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
Is Toyota only going to change a “recall” engine if and when someone buys it first?
Under the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act, new vehicles that are subject to a safety recall cannot be delivered until the defect is corrected. (While federal law contains no prohibition against advertising such vehicles, some state laws, such as those in California, prohibit advertising vehicles not actually for sale, and/or separately require that an advertisement must be withdrawn within 48 hours of withdrawing a vehicle from sale).
[Reference: 49 U.S.C. §§ 30101 et seq.; 30120(i); 49 C.F.R. Parts 567, 571, and 573.11; California Vehicle Code §§ 11713(b); 11713(c); 11713(i); 24000, et seq.]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Pure speculation. That site - which I have read - uses similar language for every manufacturer "Hope they use quality componenets' - ie I did no actual research. Most engines can no longer be overbored anymore - It doesn't at all affect initial longevity. If you want actual data - read the actual 38 page SAE report who actually tested the engine. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2019-04/documents/sae-2019-01-0249-benchmarking-2018-toyota-camry-2.5-liter-atkinson-cycle-engine-cooled-egr.pdf

So yes, we will know if this family of engine is reliable in the real world - in 10 years or so.

Certainly respect your opinion, but the referenced article while providing detailed engine information, is concerned with emissions, not reliability.

Agree that today's engines are not meant to be rebuilt and your final statement is fact.

Motorreviewer is not a perfect site, but their reviews cannot be discounted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
dealerships are allowed to repair their vehicles and sell them as new. This is why you should inspect everything like you would an used car to make sure no bolt or nut has been turned if this is important to you.
No one ever does this when they buy new, but I would like to know if the engine is original or was replaced under this recall
 
241 - 260 of 426 Posts
Top