[floater]

I was suprised to see this is recommended every 15k if towing, using car top carrier, or heavy vehicle towing. At 60k they are recommending replacing ATF, front differential oil and rear diff and transfer case oil. Is Toyota ATF synthetic?

 

[termica]

in norway we replace both front and rear diff oil on all 30.000 km services this goes for all 4wd toyotas
myself on my rav im gonna replace it on 15k intervals, mainly cuz its nice for the diff to run in fresh oil all the time instead of old gunky stuff...

for the atf i can find out that tomorrow, but yes change it at 60k. remember to not just drop the plug and refil that will only take 3 liters out of the tranny! (its a around 12L in it!) it needs to be flushed...

 

[floater]

Ufortunately Toyota has made replacing the ATF, which would be real easy a major pain in the ass by not providing a dipstick. My Rav has 30K and I'm going to do the front/rear diff and transfer case with synthetic. I would like to R&R the ATF too with synthetic but it looks like the only way to get around the lack of a dipstick is to replace with exactly the same amount as drained and wait a few weeks and repeat 2-3 times. Some synthetics are completely compatible with regular ATF and can be mixed. I used Redline ATF in my old Subaru Outback.

 

[termica]

this is why the vehicles tranny is flushed, it will refil the exact ammount that it takes out of the car
by draining and filling u will NEVER get out the contaminent of the tranny. you are just mixing the fluids around

the dipstick a monkey probably run of with, so we are stuck with the overflow plug system on the trannies ....

tranny fluid is the Toyota Genuine ATF WS. for the U660F automatic transaxle now i cant guarantee thats the tranny u got in your car, and i havent checked out what the other ones use. dealers knows it when searching up vins

 

[termica]

the WS automatic fluid is synthetic

 

[AWD2015]

I realize this is old, but what's the part #s of the drain/fill washers for TC and diffs?

 

[Mainia]

the WS automatic fluid is synthetic

No it is not, it is a group 2/3 semi-synthetic. That is why it preforms so badly when it gets hit by heat. The WS ATF pictures below are from my Rav4 lease return woman driver from upstate New York with 21,400 miles. No indications she was a hockey or soccer mom or a hauling anything with it. The back hatch area had zero markings of use.

Understanding the Differences in Base Oil Groups


I owned a hobby Audi repair business with 60 plus customers and I never smelled such burnt ATF in my life that came out of my wife's Rav4. I have done many ATF oil changes in my life on multiple brands of cars since I am the go to mechanic in the family besides my old Audi business. I am a firm believer of changing brands ATF from WS with a boutique oil companies TRUE synthetic oil. Like Amsoil or Redline. Both being group 4 and group4/5 Ester ATFs. If you must have WS, I myself would bring the change intervals way down unless you have a Rav4 that has an external aftermarket ATF cooler, only then I think WS can handle the job, but still just barely. It just doesn't have the correct "base stock" to handle the job in a none external cooled transmission in my opinion.


As far as changing the transfer case and rear diff oil, remember that there is a clutch pack in the rear diff for the 4WD. I would suggest a flush of the rear diff by changing it and running it for 25 miles will hitting the 4wd button and going below 25 mph for a bit, to cycle through and flush the fluid from the clutch pack. Then changing it again. I have researched that this rear units bearing go bad later in life from the high particulate counts from the clutch material and the gear friction residue. Also if you are towing, going to a 75W 90 would be a better idea since you would only lose very very very little mileage and gain a better viscosity for rougher use with the 75W90 then the 75W 85. I myself will not use Toyota fluids in my car, I want boutique oil in my car. I want TRUE synthetic group 4 and group 4/5 esters in transmissions and gear boxes where the highest quality matters. I have no issue with a solid group 3 in the engine.

 

[termica]

No it is not, it is a group 2/3 semi-synthetic. That is why it preforms so badly when it gets hit by heat. The WS ATF pictures below are from my Rav4 lease return woman driver from upstate New York with 21,400 miles. No indications she was a hockey or soccer mom or a hauling anything with it. The back hatch area had zero markings of use.

Understanding the Differences in Base Oil Groups


I owned a hobby Audi repair business with 60 plus customers and I never smelled such burnt ATF in my life that came out of my wife's Rav4. I have done many ATF oil changes in my life on multiple brands of cars since I am the go to mechanic in the family besides my old Audi business. I am a firm believer of changing brands ATF from WS with a boutique oil companies TRUE synthetic oil. Like Amsoil or Redline. Both being group 4 and group4/5 Ester ATFs. If you must have WS, I myself would bring the change intervals way down unless you have a Rav4 that has an external aftermarket ATF cooler, only then I think WS can handle the job, but still just barely. It just doesn't have the correct "base stock" to handle the job in a none external cooled transmission in my opinion.


As far as changing the transfer case and rear diff oil, remember that there is a clutch pack in the rear diff for the 4WD. I would suggest a flush of the rear diff by changing it and running it for 25 miles will hitting the 4wd button and going below 25 mph for a bit, to cycle through and flush the fluid from the clutch pack. Then changing it again. I have researched that this rear units bearing go bad later in life from the high particulate counts from the clutch material and the gear friction residue. Also if you are towing, going to a 75W 90 would be a better idea since you would only lose very very very little mileage and gain a better viscosity for rougher use with the 75W90 then the 75W 85. I myself will not use Toyota fluids in my car, I want boutique oil in my car. I want TRUE synthetic group 4 and group 4/5 esters in transmissions and gear boxes where the highest quality matters. I have no issue with a solid group 3 in the engine.

it is no 4wd button in a rav4 .... its a center diff lock button wich applies 50/50 power distrubution to the front rear.... should not be pressed unless stuck somewhere.....
aslong as the vehicle is under guaranty by toyota, use toyota fluids... guaranty people sometimes requests a sample of the oil and wont warranty the work if found to be other oils.... same with parts if they are related too the fault (only applies if the aftermarked part is in relation with the fault)

 

[Mainia]

it is no 4wd button in a rav4 .... its a center diff lock button wich applies 50/50 power distrubution to the front rear.... should not be pressed unless stuck somewhere.....
aslong as the vehicle is under guaranty by toyota, use toyota fluids... guaranty people sometimes requests a sample of the oil and wont warranty the work if found to be other oils.... same with parts if they are related too the fault (only applies if the aftermarked part is in relation with the fault)

In the USA, the 4WD unit is in the rear diff. It holds the engaging clutch packs that engage electronically. The transfer case is just that, the gearing to bring a PTO shaft to the rear. You will notice the transfer case oil is almost always cleaner to spotlessly clean because nothing is really happening in there but static power transfer. At least that is how i understood it. I may be wrong at least on nothing happening much in the transfer case, but most of the 4WD drive stuff is happening in the rear diff with solenoids.


They can sample my ATF oil all they want. I can dump my WS ATF oil out 100 miles after picking it up new from the dealer and as long as I add WS comparable ATF. See sampling of specs below that Redline D6 is comparable to. Here in the USA I am protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Or gear oil as you stated above . I run Redline there too, but when I get my boat I might switch to Amsoil Severe Gear because I can get it right down the road. I will use ATF as my example since I have used this example many times and I can use aftermarket oil cooler as an example too.

Below are all the ATF fluids that my favorite ATF oil Redline D6 is comparable to. The law states ( paraphrasing) that if Toyota says the warranty of the tranny is only good if I run their oil, they have to supply it for FREE when I want to change it during the warranty period. And it is up to them to prove that the fluid (in my case) Redline D6 caused the warranty failure. It happens so little that they would never take it to court, because any good attorney would find a good petroleum fluid engineer and all they would have to say is they were running Redline D6 when the failure happened and that fluid engineer would want to check the D6 that came out of the car and make sure it had it's additive package in it and if it did he would always side with the Redline in this case or say...Amsoil Signature Series ATF. Both far superior ATFs. Redline D6 is group 4/5 Ester based full synthetic ATF then the semi-synthetic group 2/3 crap Toyota WS is. Read about base stocks at my link. A far superior base stock and add a far superior additive package with the Redline or Amsoil vs Toyota WS and other OEM ATFs, with the exception of Hyundai/Kia SP4-M that is a group 4/5 Ester based OEM oil that is an excellent high end ATF.

Understanding the Differences in Base Oil Groups



I am still in the beginnings of my research, but it looks as if an external ATF aftermarket cooler if install with "best practices" would be safe to install on a warranted new car/truck under the Magnuson-Moss Act. I have checked with 4 Toyota dealers so far and 2 said they would honor the trans failure without question if the cooler had proper sized lines that were the shortest possible, long hose radius turns as not to restrict flow and the right diameter hose. ( a pro install or factory quality install even if the owner did it) The 2 others would defer to Toyota, because they did not know how to handle it.

Remember it is up to Toyota to prove basically in the court of law why it failed, they can't defer it for ME or the owner to prove Toyota is wrong in denying the warranty claim. All burden is on them. So it happens so rarely they just fix it, it just is not worth fighting. Plus any good attorney can get experts to prove the failure is in the failure averages. High end "bouquet" AFT is far superior then OEM ATF, and a properly installed after market cooler keeps the temp down. Both pushing failure rates down by a high margin.

At least here in the USA there is a weird dogma about warranty and using ONLY the manufactures products on forums like this one. The minute you bring up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act you would not believe how the conversation changes at the dealership with people that know the law. A complete 180 deg change. The others who "don't know, what they don't know" keep following the company warranty dogma line to scare you to buy their product. I bet 90% of the people believe they have to use substandard ATF's like WS to keep the warranty.



MORE TECHNICAL INFORMATION

Synthetic D6 ATF is a lower viscosity version of the D4ATF and is designed for better fuel efficiency in CAFE testing. Dexron VI requires a different approach to a conventional ATF formulation. Rather than beginning with a 7.5 cSt fluid and allowing a viscosity loss in use to drop to 5.5 cSt, the Dexron VI fluid requires a starting viscosity of less than 6.4 and a final drop to no less than 5.5 cSt. Red Line D6 will drop to no less than 6.1 cSt. Since the final viscosity after use of these fluids are similar, Dexron VI fluids can be used where Dexron III fluids
were previously recommended (with the exception of some manual transmission applications, our customers report).

D6 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear protection. The balanced frictional characteristics provide smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals. The superior stability compared to petroleum ATFs allows high-temperature operation without varnishing valves and clutches which leads to transmission failure.



Popular product and application crossover:

Dexron® VI (GM #88861003), Mercon® SP, Mercon® LV, Mercon®, Dexron® III '99 on automatic applications

BMW - Dexron® VI - BMW #83 22 0 432 807, 83 22 0 397 114
('06 on 6L45E X3, 6L809E, '07 on 3 Series, '08 on 1 Series with GM GA6L45R 6 speed automatic)

Ford Mercon® SP - XT-6-QSP
(Torque Shift 5-speed Automatic 5R110W, '03 on 6.0 liter diesel trucks, 2005-09 V-10, ZF 6HP26 6R60/6R75)

Ford Mercon® LV - XT-10-QLV
('08- Focus, '09- F-150, F-250SD, Expedition, Navigator 6R80)

Honda/Acura DW-1, Acura ATF Type 3.0

Mercedes Fuchs/Mobil/Shell 3353, MB Sheet 236.12 (NAG-2, 722.9,
7 speed transmission - MB # A001 989 45 03 10)

Mercedes Mobil/Shell ATF 134, Fuchs/Titan 4134 (MB Sheet 236.14 NAG-2, 722.9 7G-Tronic supersedes 3353, MB # 001 989 68 03 10)

Mercedes - Dexron® VI MB Sheet 236.41 (722.550 8 speed
ML Class hybrid type 164.195)

Mitsubishi Dia Queen ATF-J2, Mitsubishi # 4040610, 4031610

Mitsubishi SP-IV - Hyundai SP-IV - Kia SPH-IV

NissanMatic S

Toyota/Lexus WS, AW-1 - JWS 3324, NWS09638
(VW/Audi 0C8 8 speed # G 055 540, SAAB '03 on 9-3 6 speed # 93 165 147, Volvo # 31 256 774, 31 256 775)

ZF Lifeguard 6 & 6 Plus - Shell M1375.4
('02 on 6 & 7 Series, '06 on 3, 5 Series and X5 with ZF 6 speed automatic BMW# 83 22 0 142 516, 83 22 0 144 137, 83 22 0 406 929, VW/AUDI # G 055 005, G 055 162 )

ZF Lifeguard 8 - Shell M-L12108
(BMW # 83 22 2 152 426 and VW/AUDI # G 060 162)


Dexron is a registered trademark of General Motors Corporation.
Mercon is a registered trademark of Ford Motor Company.

 

[BobVila]

High end "bouquet" AFT is far superior then OEM ATF

This is a bouquet.

I see you are still giving out legal advice while not having any legal education. And still pushing Redline products. How much are you getting paid for this?

 

[Mainia]

This is a bouquet.

I see you are still giving out legal advice while not having any legal education. And still pushing Redline products. How much are you getting paid for this?

Nice choice Bob, beautiful flowers. Outstanding choice!!!

For some reason, I now have this image of you as Rip Taylor. Only smarter then Rip, I might add. He used flowers in his act, just like the ones you gave me.

I am not playing Perry Mason and no one other then you think I am. (<-moot point) As far as my passion for Redline.......? You bet, a great oil, and really the only group 4/5 ATF out on the market . SO when you have a singular supplier, and really no one competing in the group 5 area it becomes "the go to company" when speaking about group 4/5 Ester ATF oil. Of course, Hyundai has it too, a group4/5 Ester based ATF for their OEM oil ( outstanding BOB!!) and look how many times I put that in, LOTs BOB.

I also love Untangle, as you see by my avatar. A couple sites that I am on, they put their sports teams on because they have the passion for that team or franchise. I put Untangle on there, since I am not a big sports fan other then hockey. Here is a picture of my Untangle server at home. (below) I really thought I did a good job on it. It is a Intel Rangley 8 Core Atom SoC chipset with 16 GB ram and SSD hard drive. Plus, I have triple redundant SOHO/enterprise surge protection, two more layers added after this photo. Also a triple "gas" CAT6 surge/lightning protection too. This is how I get onto the internet. I run through 2 different Unified Threat Management servers. (UTMs) I always run a layered defense strategy.

My 1st UTM, my Zyxel USG 60 (gateway) just has enterprise content filtering and anomaly detection, my second UTM in bridge mode is full SOHO/enterprise UTM running Untangle HOME pricing. Enterprise content filtering, intrusion prevention, two in line AV scanners (Bit Defender and crappy Clam AV) Both link into servers in the Cloud for the latest cloud scanning of hashes through Untangle's Scout IQ. GEO blocking, I only let in 14 countries into my network, all others are blocked. I also decrypt all SSL/TLS (port 443 plus others) traffic coming into my network and scans everything before it hits any of my computers. It is a nice setup. Here it is scroll down just a bit and there it is.








Untangle is very affordable since they brought the high price charged to enterprise and SOHOs customers down to being affordable for the home user. I was using Sophos UTM before going back to Untangle after their price drop.

Now Sophos UTM is actually free to the home user, but they bought out another UTM competitor and were pushing a whole new design that was still in early Beta, that a lot of people did not care for, me included. So I switched. I still have an SSD image on another drive in my server so I can switch out back to Sophos in about 10 minutes if I wanted.

I also have a passion for TIG welding. I will post pictures of my TIG welder and I can show you how passionate I am in that area too. Maybe if you stop being so creepy, you can bring me more flowers and I can show you how to TIG weld? No BOB, those flowers are a bit over the top.


See Bob, it is called passion for a product. Just like you have for finding 'faux pas" on my spelling and everything I say. Are you going to be a really "Creepy Dude " and follow me around? Seeing you searched the internet to find out all about me, because of the love you have for me. So sweet of you.

.