[Jeffp25]

We have an existing 30 amp 220V outlet in our garage for a wall heater installed by the previous owner. We had an electrician come out and give us an estimate - he said that the existing outlet is too low for the cable length on a typical charger (it is near the floor) so he needs to install a junction box, and he can add a new 14-50R outlet (for the 32 A charger) plus restore the existing outlet to the junction box. His formal quote:

Furnish and install 14-50R tapped off of existing wiring. Includes installing junction box and re-installing existing receptacle. $660 total.

This is about double the expected cost - considering they is no need to install the 220V wiring/breaker. Is this quote unreasonable?

 

[chuckles70]

Yes it's a rip off. If it were me I'd skip the plug, run flex conduit between the existing box and hardwire into the EVSE (all of the good ones support, and even recommend hardwire. That avoids the NEC code mandated GFCI and nuisance tripping. $20 in parts from the Depot (plus a few clamps and maybe a box cover) and 15 min and done. Folks do handstands to get a plug that matches the EVSE. Skip it!

Southwire 1/2 in. x 6 ft. 10/3 Ultra-Whip Liquidtight Flexible Non-Metallic PVC Conduit Cable Whip 55189407 - The Home Depot

Ultra-Whip is a non-metallic conduit constructed with two different PVC materials that are extruded to form a highly flexible product designed especially for electrical applications. A rigid material forms the stiff helical spring, which is completely encapsulated by a second flexible compound...

www.homedepot.com

 

[RetiredGamer]

Yes it's a rip off. If it were me I'd skip the plug, run flex conduit between the existing box and hardwire into the EVSE (all of the good ones support, and even recommend hardwire. That avoids the NEC code mandated GFCI and nuisance tripping. $20 in parts from the Depot (plus a few clamps and maybe a box cover) and 15 min and done. Folks do handstands to get a plug that matches the EVSE. Skip it!

Southwire 1/2 in. x 6 ft. 10/3 Ultra-Whip Liquidtight Flexible Non-Metallic PVC Conduit Cable Whip 55189407 - The Home Depot

Ultra-Whip is a non-metallic conduit constructed with two different PVC materials that are extruded to form a highly flexible product designed especially for electrical applications. A rigid material forms the stiff helical spring, which is completely encapsulated by a second flexible compound...

www.homedepot.com

The electrical box is no joke. I'm always on my toes the few times I worked in there. Just be safe is all, I agree plumbers and electricians overcharge a lot. $660 ain't bad I mean if you put a price on your health. I mean if you get roasted another guy is going to get the keys to your RAV4 prime and probably move into the house just saying. Not to mention well I won't mention it lol. Think about that and weigh the pros and cons.

 

[chuckles70]

The electrical box is no joke. I'm always on my toes the few times I worked in there. Just be safe is all, I agree plumbers and electricians overcharge a lot. $660 ain't bad I mean if you put a price on your health. I mean if you get roasted another guy is going to get the keys to your RAV4 prime and probably move into the house just saying. Not to mention well I won't mention it lol. Think about that and weigh the pros and cons.

I'm not necessarily suggesting a homeowner do it. I'm saying (1) there's no requirement for a plug and all of the extra complexity, and (2) it's 15 min of work for an electrician. So that it can be priced accordingly. Price can come down dramatically depending upon what you tell the electrician to do.

"I need a 14-50 plug right here." "OK I have to upgrade you to a GFCI breaker, install a box, get an outlet, pull wire, etc. $600."
"This charger that I've already hung on the wall has a knockout for wiring right here, and I need it hardwired to this junction box over here 4 feet away." "OK I have a piece of #10 armor flex in the truck be right back. $150."

 

[Jeffp25]

"I need a 14-50 plug right here." "OK I have to upgrade you to a GFCI breaker, install a box, get an outlet, pull wire, etc. $600."
"This charger that I've already hung on the wall has a knockout for wiring right here, and I need it hardwired to this junction box over here 4 feet away." "OK I have a piece of #10 armor flex in the truck be right back. $150."

According to the electrician, the cords on the chargers are only about a foot long, so I will need something to help me connect the charger to the existing outlet position - unless I want to have the charger only 18 inches off the floor.

Probably worth getting another quote - I've used this company several times before and their prices have been reasonable, but $600 feels very high for under an hour's work and maybe $50 in parts.

 

[chuckles70]

According to the electrician, the cords on the chargers are only about a foot long, so I will need something to help me connect the charger to the existing outlet position - unless I want to have the charger only 18 inches off the floor.

Probably worth getting another quote - I've used this company several times before and their prices have been reasonable, but $600 feels very high for under an hour's work and maybe $50 in parts.

What charger? I am suggesting that cords on most chargers can be replaced with either a longer cord or no cord at all.

This came out of my Chargepoint: (no tools required).

And I caused this to happen (any electrician can do this and the conduit can go wherever it needs to go. You have a J box just a few feet away):

 

[Jeffp25]

According to the electrician, code requires a switch on the box if the charger does not have a box, so getting a charger without a plug (they make one for roughly the same price), or replacing the cable in the unit, will mean adding the cost of the switch - not a lot, but it would still mean it is not as simple as connecting the cable to the existing outlet box.

 

[chuckles70]

According to the electrician, code requires a switch on the box if the charger does not have a box, so getting a charger without a plug (they make one for roughly the same price), or replacing the cable in the unit, will mean adding the cost of the switch - not a lot, but it would still mean it is not as simple as connecting the cable to the existing outlet box.

That's the 2nd red flag after price. It's possible (but VERY unlikely) that your AHJ has adopted codes more stringent than NEC national model codes requiring service disconnect. Your circuit is not >60A, and almost every home in the USA is 120V to ground (except for really, REALLY big houses and commercial properties), so service disconnect won't apply. I'd definitely go for a 2nd opinion. Good luck.

Summary of NEC EVSE Service Disconnect requirements:
"Charging stations require disconnect – lockable open as per NEC 2017 Section 110.25 in readily accessible location, if the equipment is rated more than 60 amps and 150V to Ground, as per NEC 2017 Section 625.42"

 

[Klamsoss]

Why not just put the charger where the existing wiring is and put a hanger above it for the EVSE cord?
I realize that's not the most slightly arrangement but it works, and won't cost you a dime extra for installation as long as you buy a charger with the right sort if plug. Alternatively, there may be enough wire in the wall to pull out and hard-wire the charger. 18" off the floor is enough that it wont get wet unless you're in a flood zone.

 

[Jeffp25]

Why not just put the charger where the existing wiring is and put a hanger above it for the EVSE cord?
I realize that's not the most slightly arrangement but it works, and won't cost you a dime extra for installation as long as you buy a charger with the right sort if plug. Alternatively, there may be enough wire in the wall to pull out and hard-wire the charger. 18" off the floor is enough that it wont get wet unless you're in a flood zone.

Fairly common to need to check/press things on the charger unit and at under 2 foot from the floor, right next to the Prime, it will be hard to reach. The existing socket is only rated for 30A so I'd be limited to charging below 30A and not be able to get the max charging speed. The cable goes from the subpanel in the basement, along the wall, and straight up and through a hole in the wall to the garage at the outlet - zero play in the cable (no way to pull it higher).

 

[Jeffp25]

While I appreciate all the replies suggesting I do it myself, I would love to get an answer to my question: is the $650 reasonable for the job or is it way to high BASED ON TYPICAL COSTS FOR AN ELECTRICIAN TO DO THE WORK.

Sure, I could figure out how to install it myself, but if there is an electrical problem and I do the work, I am liable (if there's a fire that could even vaguely be traced back to this outlet, insurance would not pay out even if I did nothing wrong).

 

[chuckles70]

While I appreciate all the replies suggesting I do it myself, I would love to get an answer to my question: is the $650 reasonable for the job or is it way to high BASED ON TYPICAL COSTS FOR AN ELECTRICIAN TO DO THE WORK.

It is not reasonable. First sentence of post #2.

I saw the pics in your other thread, if you are going the plug route, a competent electrician needs 2 J boxes, a couple feet of 8/3, and a 14-50 outlet, and optionally a 14-30 outlet to replace the surface mount heater plug (if you want to save it). $30-40 parts tops. Trip charge ~$75 and and minimum labor 1h~$75. $250 TOPS. I never encourage anyone to DIY (and didn't intend to on this thread) but try to inform on what to ask of who is doing the work so you are educated. Good luck.

 

[Keith_A]

In the last 2 years, I've seen the prices charged by plumbers, electricians, and other trades go crazy. I believe paying reasonable prices for parts and services, but many in the trades are just very greedy. The only thing you can do is just say NO, and find somebody that is honest......

 

[SDGTR]

In the last 2 years, I've seen the prices charged by plumbers, electricians, and other trades go crazy. I believe paying reasonable prices for parts and services, but many in the trades are just very greedy. The only thing you can do is just say NO, and find somebody that is honest......

Yep. Labor rates for skilled trades have gone insane and people are willing to pay it. I guess in some cases they don't really have a choice.

My 240V circuit is going to run me anywhere from $1500 to $3000. The breaker box is inside the house on a different floor than the garage so my run will go through several walls, a bathroom, a soffit or two, then finally inside about 15 feet of conduit that will be mounted to my garage ceiling. I'd think I won the lottery if someone offered to do it for $650.

I think the $650 for a very short run near the panel is a bit much but nowadays "a bit much" applies to all the trades you mentioned.

 

[Jeffp25]

Thanks for the clearer replies. I was hoping to get this done quickly now that we have the Prime, from a company that has been reasonable in the past, but I guess I need to get some more quotes. (My thought was an hour's labor and about $50 in parts so I estimated no more than $300.)

 

[wscan]

Thanks for the clearer replies. I was hoping to get this done quickly now that we have the Prime, from a company that has been reasonable in the past, but I guess I need to get some more quotes. (My thought was an hour's labor and about $50 in parts so I estimated no more than $300.)

What is somewhat unclear and may be related to the higher cost is the fact that the existing heater outlet is 30 amps. Does that mean that it has a 30 amp breaker in the panel? If that is the case, the wire size from the panel to the heater outlet may be #10, which is rated for 30 amps. 40 amps would require at least #8 wiring. Does the electrician have to re-run that cable? He does not state that in his short job description, but that may be implied.

Also, depending on the EVSE you get, there may not be any controls on the EVSE. My chargepoint has nothing that is used associated with daily charging. The charging cord is simply taken from the hanger and plugged into the car. Charging starts automatically. So you could use the 1.5 foot cord and plug the EVSE into the existing outlet, assuming the circuit supports 40 amps. Just get an EVSE that plugs into the existing outlet.

 

[Jeffp25]

What is somewhat unclear and may be related to the higher cost is the fact that the existing heater outlet is 30 amps. Does that mean that it has a 30 amp breaker in the panel? If that is the case, the wire size from the panel to the heater outlet may be #10, which is rated for 30 amps. 40 amps would require at least #8 wiring.

The breaker is certainly 40A and I had the electrician check the wire - it is rated for 40A to, so that part is fine. The problem is that the outlet is only rated at 30 A, so I can't just use a plug adapter.

 

[juniorkirk]

The electrical box is no joke. I'm always on my toes the few times I worked in there. Just be safe is all, I agree plumbers and electricians overcharge a lot. $660 ain't bad I mean if you put a price on your health. I mean if you get roasted another guy is going to get the keys to your RAV4 prime and probably move into the house just saying. Not to mention well I won't mention it lol. Think about that and weigh the pros and cons.

So you are suggesting the electrician is NOT going to turn the breaker off that feeds power to that line? I know there are A LOT of stupid people out there that wouldn't turn the power off, but an electrician would. With the breaker off to that outlet, there is NO risk to their health.

 

[chuckles70]

So you are suggesting the electrician is NOT going to turn the breaker off that feeds power to that line? I know there are A LOT of stupid people out there that wouldn't turn the power off, but an electrician would. With the breaker off to that outlet, there is NO risk to their health.

I think he's saying a homeowner doing it might electrocute himself and wife has to find another man. Of course wife also might hook up with the electrician, while husband is at the office reading TPS reports. All kinds of things can happen-

 

[Jeffp25]

So you are suggesting the electrician is NOT going to turn the breaker off that feeds power to that line? I know there are A LOT of stupid people out there that wouldn't turn the power off, but an electrician would. With the breaker off to that outlet, there is NO risk to their health.

Unless you wire things up wrong so there's a nice big flame-inducing spark when you flip the breaker back on.