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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi.
my 98 RAV4 ignition version is without distributor, i don't know what happen but i can't start and crank the engine,
how can i track the problem ?
my so cold mechanic was too busy for it but told me that the scanner that he used gave "can't find ECU" message.

i also can't find repair service pdf with that refer to distributorless model.
 

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2010 2.0 VVTi RAV 4
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Have a look at this excellent web site by our member @Elle__Rav4


Have a look at the starting problems in the first instance.

If there is no crank at all, is the battery charged fully (does the starter solenoid click?) and is there an alarm on the Rav that is disabling the crank
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
The battery is charged.
i can activate the starter with the relay but not through the key.
but even than i can't ignite the engine.
what alarm ?
i canceled the immobilizer.

BTW i read Elle description and the part about the crank position sensor is not complete and could be misleading.

measuring its resistance with multimeter is not enough,
in order to fully check the ckp you'll need to test its waveform using a scope.

Rectangle Font Slope Parallel Number
 

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Thank you for the feedback, that is a big clue

Looking at the wiring diagrams, either some of your fuses have blown, or your ignition switch is broken, or has a broken wire in the circuit

The fuse for the spark circuit is the 20A IGN fuse which is in the box on your strut tower

Hope this helps
 

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1998 Rav4, manual transmission, 2WD, 5-door, JDM engine installed in 2013
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The battery is charged.
i can activate the starter with the relay but not through the key.
but even than i can't ignite the engine.
what alarm ?
i canceled the immobilizer.
RedOldRav, to get the wiring diagram, go to www.rav4world.com/threads/98-toyota-rav4-electrical-issues.292825/ , post #2, and download the attachment titled "1999Rav4wiringsearchable.pdf". Go to pdf page 62.

You indicate elsewhere that your Rav4 has an automatic transmission.

I would first be focused on getting the starter to run (and so the engine at least cranks).

What exactly did you do when you activated the starter with the starter relay? Did you apply 12 volts directly from the battery to starter relay terminal 1 (as shown on page 62)? If so, then one approach is to work backwards in the wiring beginning with starter relay terminal 1, applying 12 volts at various points in several steps in a systematic fashion, as needed to narrow down the problem. For example:

-- First, apply 12 volts to terminal 6 of the park/neutral switch. Does the engine crank? If so, the wiring from the park/neutral switch terminal 6 to the starter relay is not the problem.

-- Second, apply 12 volts to terminal 5 of the park/neutral switch. Does the engine crank?

And so on.

Obviously there are shortcuts, like checking for continuity across the park/neutral switch with the transmission in park and so on.

I think one gets what one pays for. These are only clues to get a do-it-yourselfer started.
 

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…told me that the scanner that he used gave "can't find ECU" message.
It’s possible this is due to a bad ECU. But it could be the fuse is blown, so check that. It’s in the fuse box under the hood, near the drivers-side strut tower. It’s labeled “EFI”. Refer to the diagram printed on the underside of the cover. Should be a yellow 20A fuse.
 

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1998 Rav4, manual transmission, 2WD, 5-door, JDM engine installed in 2013
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I would like to know whether the OP's Rav4 (presumably imported from Europe or Asia) has a functioning OBD2 connector (a.k..a. "data link connector 3" or "DLC3") in the cabin (near the driver's knees). I understand the European first generation Rav4s do not have this connector. If the Rav4 is from Asia, I am not sure the OBD set-up is the same as that used for the United States-distributed first generation Rav4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Update:
The yellow 20 A fuse is fine but
the big cube shape fuse that also located at the box near by the strut tower was blown, and a friend of mine soldered it for the meantime.
but the engine wouldn't start either.
than i checked the battery voltage which was 9 volts.
it's charging now so i'll have to wait for another 10 hours i guess for the next try.
 

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1998 Rav4, manual transmission, 2WD, 5-door, JDM engine installed in 2013
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-- I am looking at the 1999Rav4wiringsearchable.pdf diagram which I mentioned above, pages 16 and 18, and the pinout for the ignition coil packs as given at www.rav4world.com/threads/ignition-coil-pinout-help.310391/ , post #2.

-- Does your Rav4 have a data link connector near the driver's knees, as shown below (left hand drive Rav4)? I am not ruling out a bad computer but need to know what setup you have and why the mechanic got the "can't find ECU" message. BMR is right to focus on this some, as far as I am concerned.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive design Bumper


-- Did the spark plugs look wet, like the injectors are working?

-- (Checking some basics, since this is diagnosis across the internet.) How old are the spark plugs? How old are the spark plug cables? What is the resistance of the spark plug cables? The cables' resistances should be much less than 25,000 ohms each.

-- See page 18 of the 1999Rav4wiringsearchable.pdf (the wiring diagram), near the top, for locations of the IGN fuse, the IG2 relay, and the EFI relay. I would go ahead and check the fuse and two relays. (I am not there, actually seeing what you are seeing, so I am trying to be thorough without adding too much work.) Tapping on old (and so somewhat worn) relays sometimes gets them to function. The fuse and relays pertain more to whether the engine cylinders are getting fuel. They are not hard to check, and I would want to eliminate them before, say, going out to get another engine computer.

I have every confidence that you will figure out the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The spark wires is 3 year old and dry.
The spark plugs is also 3 years old Ngk iridium.
It’s resistance less than 10000 ohm
I think i have the dlc3 plug, tomorrow I’ll verify that.
We checked continuity and all the fuses in that box are fine.
I replaced two relays including the starter one with new ones.
 

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In particular, I would be looking for whether RedOldRav's Rav4 has connector DLC3 with pins connected as described below.

On OBDII, 1998-2000 United States distributed Rav4s, DLC3 has exactly four pins populated as follows:

Pin 4 "CG" chassis ground, white/black wire

Pin 5 "SG" common sensor ground to the ECU, brown wire

Pin 7 "SIL" connection to the computer, terminal C 16 (meaning ECU connector C, pin 16). Connection for the “ISO9141-2 K Line” protocol, white wire. Pin 7 per Haynes and 1999Rav4wiringDiagrams.pdf page 20 for 1998-2000 Rav4s. For 1996-1997 Rav4s, Pin 2 per 1996Rav4EWD.pdf, page 170, J1850 VPW protocol.

Pin 16 "BAT" 12 volts, OBDII fuse, in fuse block near a knee of the driver or passenger for 1998-00 Ravs, blue wire.

About this European or Asian Rav4's ECU and the OBDII standard, from About compatibility and OBD-II standard – Car Scanner ELM OBD2 :

In Japan the [OBD II] standard is not mandatory. So RHD cars produced for the Japanese market in the majority do not support the OBDII standard. If the Japanese make a car for the US/EU/Chinese market, they add support of OBDII standard. [But I think for European Rav4s, this did not begin until 2001. Hence for one, first generation Rav4s produced for the United Kingdom do not have DLC3.]
 

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I am leaning towards a damaged wire/high corrosion in the harness somewhere. If you have battery voltage at the coil, then maybe you are not getting the signal to fire - this is a trigger from the ECU.

Maybe the crank signal is not making it to the ECU, or not in the correct waveform (NE signal), or the IGT/IGT2 is not present or of poor quality.

Are you able to check the harness/connectors from component to ECU and look for damage/corrosion?
 

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I am leaning towards a damaged wire/high corrosion in the harness somewhere. If you have battery voltage at the coil, then maybe you are not getting the signal to fire - this is a trigger from the ECU.

Maybe the crank signal is not making it to the ECU, or not in the correct waveform (NE signal), or the IGT/IGT2 is not present or of poor quality.

Are you able to check the harness/connectors from component to ECU and look for damage/corrosion?
I agree. I have seen too many starter and starting problems resolved simply by checking and cleaning connections to the battery and starter. I still remember a low-charged battery (due to worn alternator brushes) causing my Rav to start with great difficulty. Did the low charge on the battery result in the starter not causing sufficient compression? Or like Phil says, was the low power causing a poor crank/cam signal to the ECU? Either way, the cause often traces to bad electrical connections at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I can't find the DLC socket.
i tried but it's hard to disassemble the console panel around the gear shifter, so i only took a peek from the side.


I'll try to look for bad connection hopefully today
finally the idiots agreed to cease fire last midnight,
so no rockets this day.
 
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