Toyota RAV4 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've just acquired a new to me '96, and it came to me throwing a Crankshaft Position Sensor code.

Needless to say, I need to get this fixed ASAP, and I can't afford to pay someone else to fix it. (nor would I, even if I could afford it)

I need some kind of guide to get me going here. I got rid of my 92 Bronco to get this, and I've always been a Ford kind of guy, but I am THRILLED to have this RAV4 to be my daily driver.

Any help to get this running top notch?

Thanks guys!

-Anafiel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
I would try to find a set of factory shop manuals to start. Including the Electrical book.
Then a Haynes shop manual often helps, they have a different view from Toyota.

Then after reading the manuals for a project I like to go online and see if anyone has posted any tips about this repair.

The factory manuals are good to show how everything fits together; while, the specs, tips and test are often included.
The aftermarket manuals are written more for the amateurs.
While youtube and online can sometimes show real world solutions with a better way of doing a repair.

Good luck and have fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, I got this issue fixed. I found a Toyota official diagnostics flowchart and error code definitions, and found that the AutoZone and Firestone readings of the code were wrong.

My error code was actually a camshaft position sensor code, which according to the Toyota procedures, I needed to swap out the distributor. I got me a used tested unit, got a new cap and rotor, and installed it yesterday.

After pulling the EFI fuse from the fuseblock under the hood, and letting the car sit for 15 min., the CEL went out for good (so far).

Car runs MUCH better now, as the cap and rotor from the old dist looked to be the dang one the car came with new. All four posts has deep groves burnt into them, and the center contact was worn flat.

So, last thing to address is an ignition issue that persists.

Question. The factory specs on the primary coil winding state 0.36 - 0.55 ohms at 10 - 50 deg C. I get .84 when I just tested. Secondary winding tests out just fine at 13.6 K.

Would that suggest a bad coil?

The high-tension wires are also well within specs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey Moderator, if this isn't the right forum to post this in, could you move this thread to the right one? Thanks!
 

·
Your Humble Administrator
2008 RAV4 Limited V6
Joined
·
16,970 Posts
Hey Moderator, if this isn't the right forum to post this in, could you move this thread to the right one? Thanks!
Moved thread to 4.1 Faults & Fixes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nope, after the third run cycle, the CEL came back.

I'm wondering ECU at this point?

This car has a new crankshaft position sensor, a new (used) tested dist, new fuel filter, wires tested fine, reportedly a new fuel pump, checked ALL connectors, tested coil.

The coil is still a question for me. Is .84 ohms enough out of spec to be considered a problem component? The main complaint is cruising along fine and them seemingly I lose spark. I bog down for a second or two, and then it catches again. it's worse at times, and other times it runs just fine. When the problem presents, especially under load, I can turn the key off for just s split second, turn it back on and everything runs fine again for a minuet or two. Then it starts acting up again.

Considering that I have to drive 60 miles each day to work and back, this is a ROYAL pain in the backside.

Any ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
FYI.

When I got the car, I found a fuel filter box under the seat. In it was what appeared to be a used crankshaft position sensor. I verified it was in fact at the parts store. Also in the box was a receipt for a new CPS and fuel filter. I have to assume that the previous owner had installed a new fuel filter (it looks new in the engine bay), and a new crankshaft position sensor.

I think the previous owner was throwing parts at the current CEL and performance issues. Just like I did with the new distributor.

Over the last few days I've come across some awesome RAV4 manuals, and tonight I checked over everything I've done so far, and tested all the sensors/parts I have either in the car, or out of it.

The old crankshaft position tested good at 1450 ohms cold (Resistance Cold 985 - 1600 ohms), pickup coil in the old dist measures 178 ohms cold (Cold: 135 - 220 Ohms), so the dist is/was good. The dist I just installed was tested before installation.

So now I have a spare crankshaft position sensor, and a spare distributor base with a good sensor in it. Wires have been tested and verified to be within factory specs. I plan to change plugs tomorrow, but they should not explain the issues I have above.

I can not account for the CEL, and code P0336.

Is the coil far enough out of spec at 0.84 ohms to be a factor? Am I dealing with a possible bad ECM?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
731 Posts
Without having the vehicle in my bay, I am only guessing.


ECUs rarely fail on Toyota, except for the trans shifting issue on certain models.


Sometimes a jumped chain/timing belt will cause a cam sensor code.


I recently read about this exact problem in a trade publication. . The writer did a full tune with a new ignition coil for maintenance reasons. After the work was done, the engine misfired at certain RPMs and set a cam sensor code (not sure of the code). Hours were spent trying to find the problem. The new ignition coil was the problem. An ignition coil generates a magnetic field, and a cam sensor code can be caused by a poor quality ignition coil because they reside so close together. The writer in the magazine said it was a brand new aftermarket coil. He bought an OEM Toyota coil and the cam sensor code and misfire went away. He found this by scoping the cam sensor signal, and saw noise riding along with the cam sensor signal.


But what doesn't make sense is that this is a different ignition coil in a different distributor. For both coils to cause the same issue is not common. Did you perhaps swap the coil from your distributor to the replacement?


If this were my vehicle, I would replace the ignition coil with a DENSO or OEM Toyota part ONLY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you so much for your thoughts on this!

The ignition coil sits on the firewall, center left, with the ignitor. The camshaft sensor pickup is part of the distributor, which is why I had to replace the whole unit. Different sensors, same code.

As I said, the old sensor tested in spec, but all I have to go on is my ohm meter. It's a good one though, Fluke 77III Multimeter. But I'm thinking you feel that the ignition coil might be causing the performance issue anyways?

-Anafiel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Another thought. When the vehicle runs fine, it does so across the whole RPM range. Low end and high end just the same. It's a pleasure to drive until the loss of spark starts up. I say loss of spark, because that's what it feels like. Fuel starvation would be more of a sputter type thing, but this is a total loss of fire for a couple of seconds.

Like I said, if I flick off the ignition key, even for the tiniest of split second, the cutting out will quit for a little while...usually. It's like rebooting your computer when it starts acting up. It just kinda 'feels' electrically based, not fuel based.

A seat of your pants kind of thing, yeah? LOL!

-Anafiel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Update-

So yesterday I figured I'd try changing my coil just for the fun of it (right, huh?) to see what improvement I may have, and every coil they had listed for my RAV was wrong. They showed screw posts for the Primary circuit, not the plug in type I have. Um, ok, so I'm standing there thinking to my self: "Sounds like a run to Pick Apart is in order".

So's I get in my trusty RAV and the starter motor locks up on me. Solenoid pushes the starting gear forward just fine, but the starter motor doesn't turn. Doesn't even try to. So I checked all connections again, right there in the parking lot, and nada. Nothing. I get the guys in the parts store to give me a push start, and I'm on my way.

Today I went to the JY with my son and got me a coil which tested well in specs, along with the ignitor that was on the bracket. Got the whole thing. Nice guys at the JY also let me carry home two other ignitors as there is no way to really test these. Verified that with the service department at my local Toyota dealership.

Yeah, now those nice new parts are installed....waiting on my nice new starter to be delivered.

Karma, right? LOL!!

To be continued....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, starter is out. Is there anything else I need to be looking at while I have this open space?

Preventive maintenance?
 

·
Your Humble Administrator
2008 RAV4 Limited V6
Joined
·
16,970 Posts
So's I get in my trusty RAV and the starter motor locks up on me. Solenoid pushes the starting gear forward just fine, but the starter motor doesn't turn. Doesn't even try to. So I checked all connections again, right there in the parking lot, and nada. Nothing. I get the guys in the parts store to give me a push start, and I'm on my way.
For future reference if you find yourself in the same situation in the future, try banging on the side of the starter with a hammer or wrench. Oftentimes, the starter may have stopped on a "dead zone" where the brushes don't make contact. Banging on it can often get it to start in this case. It's a good thing to remember especially if it's an automatic and you have no help around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Oh man, I've done that with stuck solenoids, but I didn't think of that when I was in the parking lot with everyone watching.

When I got the starter out today, I spun everything around to see if I saw/felt anything unusual. You think it might work now? I'm about ready to run out there in the dark and reinstall it just to see if my other fixes worked.

;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
So, last thing to address is an ignition issue that persists.

Question. The factory specs on the primary coil winding state 0.36 - 0.55 ohms at 10 - 50 deg C. I get .84 when I just tested. Secondary winding tests out just fine at 13.6 K.

Would that suggest a bad coil?
Most hand held meters are not accurate that low.
Your Fluke 77 series 3 just makes a rough guess below 10 ohms.
In the 320 ohm range it is accurate to plus or minus 5% plus 3 ohms, by it's published specs.

So while the coil is probably good reading .84; there is a chance the meter is right and the coil is bad. At least you know it is not open.

I hope you are out having fun in your good running RAV today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I hope you are out having fun in your good running RAV today.
I wish that were the case, but alas.... :frown

I have unplugged and reconnected every sensor, every fuse, every harness junction, everything. I now know where everything under the hood is, and WHAT it is. I have replaced the coil, the ignitor, tested the high tension wires, replaced the distributor, done every bit of maintenance I can think of, and the problem is exactly the same no matter what I do.

The crankshaft position sensor is new, the fuel filter is new. I can't think of anything else I can replace/test/inspect at this point...other than the ECU.

Have I missed something??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
My 99 claims the ECU and most of the ignition system share a ground point on the intake manifold. The Ravs are known to have a weak grounding system.
Try cleaning and expanding the grounding between the engine, frame, body and battery. Grounding troubles can cause many strange problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My 99 claims the ECU and most of the ignition system share a ground point on the intake manifold. The Ravs are known to have a weak grounding system.
Try cleaning and expanding the grounding between the engine, frame, body and battery. Grounding troubles can cause many strange problems.
Thanks, I will make that a priority tomorrow. Will update this thread when done.

-Anafiel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My 99 claims the ECU and most of the ignition system share a ground point on the intake manifold. The Ravs are known to have a weak grounding system.
Try cleaning and expanding the grounding between the engine, frame, body and battery. Grounding troubles can cause many strange problems.
Would someone be so kind to provide some sort of visual as to just exactly where this particular ground may be? :| I can't seem to find anything other than a single small gauge ground wire between the engine lift hook on the front right side of the engine to the fender well, and another small gauge wire from the very top of the valve cover to the firewall.

Where would the ECU/Ignition ground from the intake to ??wherever?? be located? Picture maybe?

Thanks!

-Anafiel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Going to the dealership's service department tomorrow... <sad>
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top