Tire damage due to excessive negative rear camber that can't be adjusted

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Jlhrstv

Discussion Starter · Jun 5, 2021 (Edited)

2

On a recent road trip our 2019 RAV4 Hybrid began vibrating on the highway. We pulled over and discovered that the left rear tire was damaged as it was cupped and missing much of the inside shoulder. The rest of the tire had approx. 5/32 tread wear. (3/32 is the minimum according to the tire manufacturer) We have been getting rotations every 5K miles at the dealer. All 4 tires had similar uneven wear, the current left rear being much worse.

We replaced it with our full size spare and took it to a dealer in the area, they attempted an alignment; however, we were told that the left rear had excessive negative camber, this was not adjustable, and something was defective. They advised that we take it to the dealer where we purchased the car to see if they could do something. (Car is still in warranty)

The dealer where we bought it new changed the struts and springs in an attempt to increase the ride height and decrease the camber with little effect. They said that it is now just within the "Acceptable" limit from Toyota so all is OK; however, at this camber the tire wears unevenly as evidenced by the tire in the photo above. We would expect it to be in Toyota's "Recommended" or "Preferred" alignment as represented by the smaller center green range. I understand that angles out of the recommended range can cause uneven tire wear. The replacement is also starting to show similar uneven wear after less than 1,000 miles.

What does a normal alignment report on a RAV4 Hybrid look like? Has anyone else had issues with uneven tire wear?
Would be very helpful if some of you could also post pics or results of your last alignment reports if you have them.

Thanks in advance.

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Variman

· #41 · Oct 17, 2021 (Edited)

crazyhorse said:
Were your tires showing any abnormal wear?

I don't see anything but I need to now buy a tread gauge to keep an eye on things. Anyone have a recommendation or will any gauge work? Thinking about getting this one,

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: QuickCar Racing Products 56-104 1/32" Increment Tire Tread Depth Gauge : Automotive

Buy QuickCar Racing Products 56-104 1/32" Increment Tire Tread Depth Gauge: Tire Gauges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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mikefocke

· #42 · Oct 17, 2021

Variman said:
I don't see anything but I need to now buy a tread gauge to keep an eye on things. Anyone have a recommendation or will any gauge work? Thinking about getting this one,

Amazon.com: QuickCar Racing Products 56-104 1/32" Increment Tire Tread Depth Gauge : Automotive

Buy QuickCar Racing Products 56-104 1/32" Increment Tire Tread Depth Gauge: Tire Gauges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Any car parts shop has one for a few bucks. I think my simple one cost $3 or so. Plastic, easy to read. Used it on $50 tires and $500+ ones. (I see they are twice that now.)

Kazman

· #43 · Oct 19, 2021

Hello, I just came upon this post. I just had new tires put on my 2019 Rav4 hybrid (CrossClimate2’s) and I also had the alignment and adjustment. I can say I had 35,000 miles on my factory Dunlop’s and they just had gotten to noisy for me. They still had tread ( I didn’t measure). I did inspect the tires though and the only thing I noticed is some slight feathering on the inside row of tread on each tire. Rotated every Toyota check at dealership. The tire shop did say that the alignment was out and should be adjusted.

Toy Font Rectangle Machine Plan

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mechahayai

· #44 · Oct 19, 2021

How much gas did you have in the tank when you had your alignment done?

Jack Daniels

· #45 · Oct 19, 2021 (Edited)

Variman said:
I need to now buy a tread gauge to keep an eye on things. Anyone have a recommendation... ?

If you already own a vernier caliper, then that will work just fine.

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Kazman

· #46 · Oct 19, 2021

mechahayai said:
How much gas did you have in the tank when you had your alignment done?

If the question was for me I would say around half tank.

EnjoyDriving

· #47 · Oct 26, 2021

Hi, just got this today, and Goodyear wants $110 to get the front left toe adjusted and can't do anything about the rear right camber.

Car still running straight, in fact, i was just driving it over 80 on a road trip and it didn't have any vibrations or pulling to sides. So, do i need to fix that front or should wait and observe?

plz advise, TIA

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crazyhorse

· #48 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
Hi, just got this today, and Goodyear wants $110 to get the front left toe adjusted and can't do anything about the rear right camber.

Car still running straight, in fact, i was just driving it over 80 on a road trip and it didn't have any vibrations or pulling to sides. So, do i need to fix that front or should wait and observe?

plz advise, TIA

I am sure there are many differing opinions on this but if your tires are wearing evenly and you don't feel any pull or vibration then I would take the wait and see approach.

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Tazio Nuvolari

· #49 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
Hi, just got this today, and Goodyear wants $110 to get the front left toe adjusted and can't do anything about the rear right camber.

Car still running straight, in fact, i was just driving it over 80 on a road trip and it didn't have any vibrations or pulling to sides. So, do i need to fix that front or should wait and observe?

plz advise, TIA

If you plan on eventually upgrading the original stock tires then wait until you get the new ones and then get a full alignment.

Reactions: 1

Foryota

· #50 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
Hi, just got this today, and Goodyear wants $110 to get the front left toe adjusted and can't do anything about the rear right camber.

Car still running straight, in fact, i was just driving it over 80 on a road trip and it didn't have any vibrations or pulling to sides. So, do i need to fix that front or should wait and observe?

plz advise, TIA

$110 to give a quarter turn on the front left tie rod end… and they might be able to play with the rear toe control link, but there really isn’t much we can adjust back there. That’s why tire rotations are so important - otherwise the rear right will wear out the inner band. Mine has the same “outage” on the right rear and has since new. No issues with regular rotations.

Anyway, like was already said, hang tight until you’re due for tires. It might be necessary at that time anyway due to tire warranty coverage anyway.

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EnjoyDriving

· #51 · Oct 27, 2021

thx for the input. My car has only 9K miles, so i won't need new tires any time soon. but i will certainly keep my tire rotation on schedule 👍

Foryota

· #52 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
thx for the input. My car has only 9K miles, so i won't need new tires any time soon. but i will certainly keep my tire rotation on schedule

Just keep on top of it. Many people do it every oil change (5000 miles/8000km) like me, but if you ONLY have 9,000 miles, then it depends on how fast you rack them up. Might want to rotate a bit more frequently.

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focus123

· #53 · Oct 27, 2021 (Edited)

Jlhrstv said:
On a recent road trip our 2019 RAV4 Hybrid began vibrating on the highway. We pulled over and discovered that the left rear tire was damaged as it was cupped and missing much of the inside shoulder. The rest of the tire had approx. 5/32 tread wear. (3/32 is the minimum according to the tire manufacturer) We have been getting rotations every 5K miles at the dealer. All 4 tires had similar uneven wear, the current left rear being much worse.
View attachment 167806

We replaced it with our full size spare and took it to a dealer in the area, they attempted an alignment; however, we were told that the left rear had excessive negative camber, this was not adjustable, and something was defective. They advised that we take it to the dealer where we purchased the car to see if they could do something. (Car is still in warranty)
View attachment 167807

The dealer where we bought it new changed the struts and springs in an attempt to increase the ride height and decrease the camber with little effect. They said that it is now just within the "Acceptable" limit from Toyota so all is OK; however, at this camber the tire wears unevenly as evidenced by the tire in the photo above. We would expect it to be in Toyota's "Recommended" or "Preferred" alignment as represented by the smaller center green range. I understand that angles out of the recommended range can cause uneven tire wear. The replacement is also starting to show similar uneven wear after less than 1,000 miles.

What does a normal alignment report on a RAV4 Hybrid look like? Has anyone else had issues with uneven tire wear?
Would be very helpful if some of you could also post pics or results of your last alignment reports if you have them.

Thanks in advance.

I had a 2009 Rav4 for 10 years. I had the epoxy repair on the vehicle to seal the arms. After driving for a year I noticed the right rear tire was getting worn and ruined the tire. This was only after 3000 miles. I found a tsb
TSB 0042-14

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/attachments/4-3-mechanical/44010d1429720659-tsb-tsb-0042-14.pdf

that shows how to "jounce" on the vehicle to get in into specs. I had the repair done and it fixed the problem. It is very disheartening to know that Toyota went the route of keeping the rear arms sealed.

I currently have a 2018 Rav4 gas. The wear seems to be ok after 18000 miles. If I run into this problem again I think I'll blow a gasket.

Jlhrstv

Discussion Starter · #54 · Oct 27, 2021 (Edited)

EnjoyDriving said:
Hi, just got this today, and Goodyear wants $110 to get the front left toe adjusted and can't do anything about the rear right camber.

Car still running straight, in fact, i was just driving it over 80 on a road trip and it didn't have any vibrations or pulling to sides. So, do i need to fix that front or should wait and observe?

plz advise, TIA

Thank you EnjoyDriving for sharing your alignment report.

If you only have 9,000 miles then your alignment is still under warranty - it is for 12,000 miles. Bring the report, and get the dealer to fix it free. Getting that front left toe fixed, and getting all the other adjustments closer to the middle will reduce tire wear and improve handling.

Also the absolute maximum rear camber allowed by Toyota per their service manual for the 2019 - RAV4 is -1.75. Request that your dealer fix this also while it is still under warranty. Here again is what a 2019 RAV4 tire looks like after 35,000 miles at -1.8 even with 5,000 mile rotations.

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Light

Note that the inner tread is destroyed while the outer tread looks fine. This was hard to spot without getting under the car or removing the tire. No pulling or vibrations until it got real bad on a road trip. What is worse, the dealer was servicing this car every 5,000 miles and consistently reporting that all the tires were fine.

Finally, if the dealer is unwilling or unable to repair call 800-331-4331 and open a case with Toyota as your car is outside the manufacturer specifications.

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Variman

· #55 · Oct 27, 2021

^^ doing what @Jlhrstv states will provide a paper trail and transfer some responsibility to Toyota to POSSIBLY correct the issue, replace premature worn tires as needed. After the 12K mile adjustment period, Toyota can state its the customer's driving that caused the issue.

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EnjoyDriving

· #56 · Oct 27, 2021

Jlhrstv said:
Thank you EnjoyDriving for sharing your alignment report.

If you only have 9,000 miles then your alignment is still under warranty - it is for 12,000 miles. Bring the report, and get the dealer to fix it free. Getting that front left toe fixed, and getting all the other adjustments closer to the middle will reduce tire wear and improve handling.

Also the absolute maximum rear camber allowed by Toyota per their service manual for the 2019 - RAV4 is -1.75. Request that your dealer fix this also while it is still under warranty. Here again is what a 2019 RAV4 tire looks like after 30,000 miles at -1.8 even with 5,000 mile rotations.
View attachment 173284
Note that the inner tread is destroyed while the outer tread looks fine. This was hard to spot without getting under the car or removing the tire. No pulling or vibrations until it got real bad on a road trip. What is worse, the dealer was servicing this car every 5,000 miles and consistently reporting that all the tires were fine.

Finally, if the dealer is unwilling or unable to repair call 800-331-4331 and open a case with Toyota as your car is outside the manufacturer specifications.

Big Thanks for your input, as I did bring it into a Toyota dealer and the service guy declined it as a warranty item. Can anyone point me to some papers clearly stating that alignment is covered by warranty under the 12K miles, that'd be very helpful, and I will make an appointment for it at a different dealer today.

Again, Thanks for all of your input and that's why this forum/community is awesome!!

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crazyhorse

· #57 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
Big Thanks for your input, as I did bring it into a Toyota dealer and the service guy declined it as a warranty item. Can anyone point me to some papers clearly stating that alignment is covered by warranty under the 12K miles, that'd be very helpful, and I will make an appointment for it at a different dealer today.

Again, Thanks for all of your input and that's why this forum/community is awesome!!

It appears that alignment expires after the first 12 months of ownership.

Font Screenshot Electric blue Parallel Number

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EnjoyDriving

· #58 · Oct 27, 2021

crazyhorse said:
It appears that alignment expires after the first 12 months of ownership.
View attachment 173285

Oh, bummer

I don't mind to pay for the re-alignment, as long as it does fix the issue completely. However, I was told that there is no fix or any adjustment for the rear camber, and Toyota did provide a special camber bolt as a temp solution before - not sure if that is still working in this generation and how to get it??

Tazio Nuvolari

· #59 · Oct 27, 2021

focus123 said:
I had a 2009 Rav4 for 10 years. I had the epoxy repair on the vehicle to seal the arms. After driving for a year I noticed the right rear tire was getting worn and ruined the tire. This was only after 3000 miles. I found a tsb
TSB 0042-14

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/attachments/4-3-mechanical/44010d1429720659-tsb-tsb-0042-14.pdf

that shows how to "jounce" on the vehicle to get in into specs. I had the repair done and it fixed the problem. It is very disheartening to know that Toyota went the route of keeping the rear arms sealed.

I currently have a 2018 Rav4 gas. The wear seems to be ok after 18000 miles. If I run into this problem again I think I'll blow a gasket.

Interesting that the earlier generation of RAV4s had two different rear control arm designs and adjusting mechanisms, whereas the 5th gen has a solid control arm with a camber bolt. The best design in my opinion would be to combine the two designs and provide a control arm that could be lengthened and shortened in its length, and ALSO an eccentric camber bolt to fasten it to the TNGA platform.

Line Font Parallel Rectangle Auto part

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Jlhrstv

Discussion Starter · #60 · Oct 27, 2021

EnjoyDriving said:
Oh, bummer I don't mind to pay for the re-alignment, as long as it does fix the issue completely. However, I was told that there is no fix or any adjustment for the rear camber, and Toyota did provide a special camber bolt as a temp solution before - not sure if that is still working in this generation and how to get it??

At least getting your toe angles closer to center, and especially out of the red, will go a long way toward reducing the tire wear caused by the excessive negative camber. Here and in Dallas we have been paying $75 for a one year alignment, and about $150-$175 for a lifetime alignment at Tires Plus or Firestone. We got the lifetime alignment and have it aligned every 10,000 mile oil change. Maybe you could get a better deal.

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